Posts by believingxjw

43

Some things that we APOSTATES keep getting wrong. We need some FRESH IDEAS!

by nicolaou in

just my opinions of course;.

money:.

a common attitude among ex-jw's is that the watchtower will face collapse only when the money dries up - i disagree.

believingxjw

Nic,

"A lot of good people have spent years of their lives researching the Society's doctrines and finances and thousands of us have been freed as a result - I thank you all! But doctrinal essays and the exposure of U.N. type cover-ups or pedophile abuse will never result in a mass exodus of affronted and shocked JW's. Some will murmur, a few may leave, then they'll all pick up their Songbooks and sing like before . ."

Religion is important to many people and most who believe believe not because of their priests or gb but because they truly believe in the teachings. Roman Catholics know their priests are not perfect but even when scandal strikes many stay because they believe in the religion itself. The Roman Catholic Church has a record of atrocities that make the recent child abuse scandal pale by comparison but the church continued to exist because enough of her members continued to believe in the teachings of their church. And also because she changed, she was forced to.

In my opinion, the best hope (the only hope really) is to force reform in the JW religion by continuing to do exactly what is being done on this site. "Reform" is a much more acceptable (and a well recognized need) to many active JWs than the thought of leaving totally. My suggestion is to push Reform while at the same time helping those who decide to leave, leave. Apostates who push for reform are not really apostates they are friends of the publishers stuck in the JW religion.

Marvin Shilmer's work is helping to push reform in the blood arena. It would be great if a section of JWN was dedicated to the horrible practice of shunning and all the hurt and anger it causes. Personal experiences and scriptures from the NWT highlighting Jesus' teachings on brotherly love etc, may disarm many who lurk into thinking about the whole issue a little more carefully.

This is a good thread.

75

I was never DF'ed, I wasn't abused, I never lost a loved one to the ban on blood

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

strange title, huh?.

the point is that i wasn't "burned" in some incredible way by wts and i don't carry a huge chip on my shoulder from some incredible injustice from wts or the local elders.. i say this because some people have constantly accused me of being really screwed over by my experience because of my comments on others' threads.

i explained myself there for my reasons, but wanted to repeat what those reasons are here in my own thread.. i explained on some post somewhere that i had felt that i experienced "divine intervention" in my life at one time and that same intervention ended my suicide attempt.

believingxjw

"How about "Get over yourself!" ?"

I think this is very good advice. Sometimes we focus too much on ourselves and our problems.

12

The Governing Body are Governing Pharisees

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

an excerpt from the december 15, 2001 watchtower article, learn from me.. .

""from a study of biblical and secular evidence, we can conclude that the pharisees thought highly of themselves as guardians of the public good and the national welfare.

they were not satisfied that gods law was fundamentally clear and easily understood.

believingxjw

An excerpt from the December 15, 2001 Watchtower article, Learn From Me.

""From a study of Biblical and secular evidence, we can conclude that the Pharisees thought highly of themselves as guardians of the public good and the national welfare. They were not satisfied that God’s Law was fundamentally clear and easily understood. Wherever the Law seemed to them to be unspecific, they sought to plug apparent gaps with defined applications to eliminate any need for conscience. These religious leaders attempted to devise a precept to govern conduct in all issues, even trivialities.

The first-century Jewish historian Josephus makes it obvious that the Pharisees considered themselves to be kind, gentle, just, and altogether right for their task. Doubtless, some of them came fairly close to that. Nicodemus might come to your mind. (John 3:1, 2; 7:50, 51) In time, some of them embraced the Christian way. (Acts 15:5) The Christian apostle Paul wrote about certain Jews, such as the Pharisees: "They have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge." (Romans 10:2) However, the Gospels present them as they were seen by the common people—proud, arrogant, self-righteous, faultfinding, judgmental, and demeaning.

Jesus castigated the scribes and Pharisees as hypocritical. "They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger." Yes, the load was heavy, and the yoke imposed on the people was harsh. Jesus went on to call the scribes and Pharisees "fools." A fool is a menace to the community. Jesus also called the scribes and Pharisees "blind guides" and asserted that they had "disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness." Who would want Jesus to think of him as Pharisaic?—Matthew 23:1-4, 16, 17, 23.

Almost any reader of the Gospel accounts can see the critical nature of most Pharisees. After Jesus invited Matthew Levi, the tax collector, to become a disciple, Levi spread a big reception feast for him. The account says: "At this the Pharisees and their scribes began murmuring to his disciples, saying: ‘Why is it you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?’ In reply Jesus said to them: ‘. . . I have come to call, not righteous persons, but sinners to repentance.’"—Luke 5:27-32.

Levi himself appreciated something else Jesus said on that occasion: "Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’" (Matthew 9:13) Although the Pharisees claimed to believe in the writings of the Hebrew prophets, they did not embrace this saying from Hosea 6:6. If they were going to err, they made sure it would be on the side of obedience to tradition. Each of us could ask ourselves, ‘Do I have a reputation for being a stickler for certain rules, such as ones that reflect personal opinion or common approaches to a matter? Or do others think of me as being first of all merciful and good?’

Pick, pick, pick. That was the Pharisaic way. The Pharisees looked for every flaw—real or imagined. They kept people on the defensive and reminded them of their failures. The Pharisees prided themselves on tithing the tiniest herbs, like mint, dill, and cumin. They advertised their piety by their dress and tried to direct the nation. Surely, if our actions are to be in harmony with Jesus’ example, we must avoid the tendency of always looking for and highlighting the flaws in others."

The title of this article is Learn From Me, it appears that the Governing Body has learned quite well from the Pharisees of Jesus' day. The Governing Body is today's Pharisees. The Governing Pharisees.

19

The Mark of the Beast

by sabastious in

just a refresher on the jw explanation of the what number 666, the mark of the beast, really means:.

the mark identified.

immediately after disclosing the number 666, revelation mentions 144,000 followers of the lamb, jesus christ, who have his name and the name of his father, jehovah, written on their foreheads.

believingxjw

"Any worship that they render the true God is merely lip service."

The Governing Body puts the Organization's teachings on par with the Bible and when push comes to shove the Witnesses are taught to follow the Organization's teachings over the Bible's. The Governing Body itself forces the Witnesses to give Jehovah "merely lip service."

29

For those who saw flaws in Watchtower doctrine and left. Why do you not apply the same standard of examination to your current beliefs?

by nicolaou in

i know that many left because of a lack of real love or for other personal reasons.

i would never belittle those reasons for exiting, they are as valid as any other, but if that describes your situation then perhaps this topic might not apply so much to you.. i left the watchtower because i came to realise the doctrine was flawed.

i was in my mid 30's before my mind begin waking up and i started to develop basic critical thinking abilities.

believingxjw

The Governing Body makes cookie cutter Chrisitians, everyone has to believe the same. When we wake up we can believe as we want to believe or as we feel is right or true. We're all different.

18

Beautiful Assembly Halls and Paperback Bibles

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

in the u.s. most kingdom halls and assembly halls are not only very comfortable places to meet but also built to please the eye.

the seating, carpeting, sound systems, entrance floorings, murals and wall decorations, dining areas and even apartments in those buildings for the visiting overseers are not only the best available but also very well cared for.

all of this of course is for the glory of jehovah.

believingxjw

CuriousButterfly,

If they're going back to hardbound Bibles it's probably only because the cry of complaint has reached the Governing Body's ears not because they have suddenly developed some new respect for the Bible. Torn Bibles in field service do not make for good recruiting!

18

Beautiful Assembly Halls and Paperback Bibles

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

in the u.s. most kingdom halls and assembly halls are not only very comfortable places to meet but also built to please the eye.

the seating, carpeting, sound systems, entrance floorings, murals and wall decorations, dining areas and even apartments in those buildings for the visiting overseers are not only the best available but also very well cared for.

all of this of course is for the glory of jehovah.

believingxjw

Hi Blondie,

At the local Kingdom Halls in my area the only Bibles available at the literature counter are the paperback ones.

18

Beautiful Assembly Halls and Paperback Bibles

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

in the u.s. most kingdom halls and assembly halls are not only very comfortable places to meet but also built to please the eye.

the seating, carpeting, sound systems, entrance floorings, murals and wall decorations, dining areas and even apartments in those buildings for the visiting overseers are not only the best available but also very well cared for.

all of this of course is for the glory of jehovah.

believingxjw

In the U.S. most Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls are not only very comfortable places to meet but also built to please the eye. The seating, carpeting, sound systems, entrance floorings, murals and wall decorations, dining areas and even apartments in those buildings for the visiting overseers are not only the best available but also very well cared for. All of this of course is for the glory of Jehovah. Every fine looking Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall is not for man but for the glory of God or so the Governing Body teaches its members. Everything is for Jehovah!

Everything is for Jehovah but God's scriptures are relegated to disposable paperback form. Paperback Bibles. Comfortable seating and paperback Bibles. Baby rooms (bottle feeding in the main seating area is discouraged lest some formula soil the seats!) and paperback Bibles. Beautiful landscaping and paperback Bibles. To be fair the Governing Body is producing just about everything in paperback. Their new songbook is paperback, the new books are paperback as well. So apparently the Governing Body feels that what is good for their own writings is also good enough for God's.

Don't people usually spend the most on those things most important to them? Most valuable? Paperback Bibles reflect the low priority the Governing Body places on the Bible itself. It holds no more of a special place than the Insight volumes or the other publications the Governing Body produces.

In practice this is very true!

98

SBCheezits Judicial Hearing - My EPIC FAIL (REPOST for IE users)

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

(note: i apologize to the internet explorer users.

you probably can't see my first epic fail thread because i used firefox to post.

there's still some kind of glitch between a plugin i'm running, firefox posts, and ie.).

believingxjw

In John 9 the parents of the man born blind were afraid to admit that their son had been healed by Jesus fearing they would be put out of the synagogue as all were warned that to confess Jesus meant being put out. Today the Watchtower has filled the shoes of the Jewish religious leadership very nicely. They have swatted the gnats and washed the outside of the cups to the full.

SBC, you and your wife are in good company! Keep your strength and spirit up, friend.

150

Definitely getting DF'ed now

by notverylikely in

jw
friends

came out as an apostate to the wife, came out about the depression, anger at being second fiddle in her life to 9 old guys in brooklyn, came out about having turned atheist, came out about the indiscrections, the tobacco use, everything.. fuck.

me..

believingxjw

"No, you just seem to be a loudmouth jackass."

Now you've said something true! I am all you believe I am. For my part I wish you and your family peace and happy days ahead. My father was not a Witness. We never celebrated Father's day with him nor did we send him cards on his birthday. Today he is dead and how I wish I had sent a card to him on Father's Day or on his Birthday!!! I know the hardship of divided families and if I spoke to you in a hard way it was only because I've been there and it is a hard place, brother, very hard.