Excellent post, Tammy!
believingxjw
JoinedPosts by believingxjw
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119
My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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Getting Old Can Be So Good
by believingxjw ingetting old is one of the most beautiful things in my life.
sure, i get tired easily and i have my physical limitations but it is a wonderful place nonetheless!.
perspective!
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believingxjw
Getting old is one of the most beautiful things in my life. Sure, I get tired easily and I have my physical limitations but it is a wonderful place nonetheless!
Why? Perspective! Letting go of the unimportant. Appreciating the important things in life. Appreciating things that when I was younger I never noticed. Loving my parents as I could never love them in my youth. Understanding them as I never could in my youth. Loving my family for themselves and not how as a young mother I wanted them to be. Loving life. Loving myself. Loving the differences between people even if I don't agree.
Seeing the cycles of life. Knowing and experiencing for myself that all life is beautiful and precious and so fragile. Appreciating when I can walk down the street and breathe the cool air. Touching the salty waves on the seashore. Watching parents play with their little ones as I played with mine and knowing that they likely do not appreciate the shortness of the time they have with them. Seeing the birds fly overhead and appreciating that like myself this is their time to soar and one day I and they will soar no more. And that this is okay. This is life.
Being old is no picnic physically but emotionally and mentally it can be the best place ever experienced if we let it be.
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Taking the Apostle Paul at His Word
by believingxjw ini take paul at his word when he wrote, "for it has been reported to me concerning you, my brothers, by those who are from chloe's household, that there are contentions among you.
now i mean this, that each one of you says, "i follow paul," "i follow apollos," "i follow cephas," and, "i follow christ.
" is christ divided?
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believingxjw
I take Paul at his word when he wrote, "For it has been reported to me concerning you, my brothers, by those who are from Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," "I follow Apollos," "I follow Cephas," and, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:11-13 WEB
I follow the Christ and whenever Paul's teachings are not found in Christ's teachings I do what the Christ said and not Paul. For as Paul himself said, "Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?" No. So the teachings of the Christ always come first for me.
It's no accident that when Christians look for ways to restrict someone they go to what are considered Paul's writings or the other epistles. But when Christians look for words that inspire love of brother and common sense and condemnation of religious fundy ways they usually go to Christ.
I try to follow the Christ not Paul or any other Christian dead or living. Just my view on things.
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119
My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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believingxjw
OTWO,
"but I saw how upset you were"
LOL. Nice try. I'm not upset, that's a ploy.
Jeff,
In my state there are many community churches who work non-judgmental outreach programs for many people including women who have had abortions or the poor or those out of work. Some of these could be called Progressive congregations others just trying to include those who need help rather than turning away the very ones Jesus would have ministered to. Below are 3 links to two mainstream churches that are evolving, lol. (pun intended) And it must not be forgotten that many nuns in the Roman Catholic church disagree with their church and quietly go about doing what they believe is good regardless. That's true of many other Christians as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Douglas_Glasspool
"She is the first open lesbian to be consecrated a bishop in the Anglican Communion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schori
"she is the first woman elected as a primate of the Anglican Communion in the United States"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Robinson
Episcopal Church "Robinson is widely known for being the first openly-gay, non-celibate priest to be ordained a bishop in a major Christian denomination believing in the historic episcopate."
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119
My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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believingxjw
The difference is you say "they are an extreme minority" they are not. They may not be getting the headlines as much as the fundies but they do exist and many more than most realize.
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believingxjw
Theocratic warfare is the Organization doing whatever it wants regardless of the scriptures.
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I'm going to the Kindom Hall to please my parents
by Joshnaz inmy parents are visting from florida and i agreed to take them to the kingdom hall for a meeting, but i'm just doing to make them feel comfortable while they are here.
i told them i'll be sitting in the back with jeans and sneakers playing with my i phone.
i made shure they didn't get any wrong impressions about me returning to the kingdom hall.
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believingxjw
It's good to be with family. Enjoy their visit!
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119
My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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believingxjw
There are many Christians who do not condemn homosexuals. Some have elected practicing homosexuals as leaders of their congregations or church. There are many Christians who while not believing in abortion would not condemn a woman who felt she needed to do what she needed to do. On the contrary they would offer her loving friendship if she wanted it. There are many Christians who understand divorce, adultery and living arrangements are personal matters that should not be used to divide and conquer another human. There are many Christians who believe that judging should be left to Christ and that we all fail and no one can say to another what have you been doing?
Who today does not know about such Christians who march arm and arm with their gay friends? Who today does not know of the Christians who decry religious bigotry of any kind including toward those of another faith? The comments on this thread by Jeff and OTWO purposely leave out these Christians. The Watchtower taught us all about the big bad worldly people who were so immoral and depraved and misguided, they conveniently left out those in the "world" who lived exemplary lives, people who did as Jesus taught, people who would sacrifice their life for another human being though they were a stranger. The Watchtower neglected to mention those people because they did not fit into their teaching that worldly people are, well, worldly meaning not as good as JWs and not as educated in the important things as JWs were.
I am getting the same vibes from this thread. Why only concentrate on those Christians who fit the negative model and leave out all those who do NOT fit the negative model?
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119
My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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believingxjw
Jeff,
Thomas Jefferson did not believe Jesus was the Messiah but, as you said, he nonetheless found, and admitted, that many of his teachings had true merit. He kept what he thought was good and right and left off what he felt was not.
After leaving the JWs we are free Christians. Christians free to do as Jefferson did but for different reasons. We are free to make up our own minds on the Bible and where the various parts fit into our beliefs. Did the ancient Jews really believe that the whole of their scriptures were literal accounts? From what I've read they may not have. The literal view of all scripture is a relatively recent one. Fundy's like to take the literal view because it gives them more power. But we are free. We can use our powers of reason to see what may be literal and what is not. Where the "story" ends and facts come into play. Jesus used stories to teach. Would it not be possible that his Father did the same? Jesus brought his Jewish followers into a new era of understanding of scripture and his Father. He called Moses to account on various things. He moved them forward.
"But of course Jesus himself can't be allegory - now can he? But I ask the hard question - Why can't he be? And if he is - don't you owe it to yourself to think about that instead of chasing a tail with no salvation attached? Just asking - bitterness has nothing to do with this discussion. I am not. I have already figured it out."
It's fine to believe Jesus is allegory. It's fine to believe him the Son of God. It's fine to believe he was only a good man or prophet. It's fine to believe he never existed. Where the problems come in is not in the various beliefs but how we engage with others on our beliefs. If we do as the Watchtower does and claim that all who disagree with us cannot be true Christians or if we take our beliefs and force them down anothers throat then that is the problem. The beliefs themselves whether it be "Jesus never existed," to "Jesus is God," are personal beliefs and unless they are used as clubs to humiliate or force conversion they should be respected.
How is it that it's well recognized that after leaving the Organization we all go through a process of change and learning but those who remain Christians and do the same with their faith and understanding of the Bible are somehow less Christians for it? Or worse fools. And if a Christian is a fool for believing why is that a problem anyway? Not all Christians force their beliefs, not all Christians live self-centered lives. Christians can be productive members of their communities just as anyone else. They can support their government at times and other times firmly disagree. They can extend a hand of friendship and withdraw it when circumstances require it.
If one man believes Darwin had true things to say and another believes Jesus had true things to say so what? Should the believer in evolution look down on the Christian or the Christian look down on him? How does that promote reason? Jefferson and Adams did not agree on everything and there were times of difficulty between them but in their communications at least they attempted to reason together and it seems respected the others right to his own opinions on things. There is the Organization and its teachings and there is the Bible. Some of us have decided to leave both others have decided to leave one, the Organization, and keep the other. Why is that a problem? Or does the Organization's insistence on being right carry over to our lives after the Organization as well?
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Pledge of Allegiance vs. Oath of Allegiance
by undercover inas has been exposed, leaders of the wt corporation signed "oaths of allegiance" in order to secure a us passport for international travel.. another thread has a link to photocopies of these passports: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/198658/1/lemon-pledge if you haven't seen them.
marvin shilmer also has a blog on this same subject.. the purpose of this thread is to explore the question: is signing the oath of allegiance the same as reciting the pledge of allegiance?.
on the surface it seems pretty damning.
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believingxjw
The way it was explained to me when I was young was that the pledge states, "I pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic..." The flag then, is also the object of allegiance not just the country, pledging allegiance to an object makes it an idol.
But that was a long time ago and I've almost forgotten all that stuff.