after some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.
thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.
i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.
Welcome back old friend! Hope you had a good time, anyway.
One question: do you have learning points to share with us? We all are sometimes under big pressure to return to the financial institute and property investment fund jw.org.
Hope you want to share some insights.
Greetings, Gorby
there were always all types of speakers in the org.
myself, growing up a "witness", must have heard all types of talks, and given by all manner of speakers, especially on sundays, when almost every week we would get a "visiting" brother giving the public talk.. sometimes, you would have a "great" speaker, all fluent and animated.
other times we would get a comical speaker, one who would maybe purposelly get a few laughs outta the audience.
One of the best topics ever, I fall of my chair caused by laughing!
On a sunday morning a guest speaker walked to the platform with a huge stack of paper. His introduction was "This morning you can choose the talk you want, I took them all with me. Family life? Paradise? Last days? Ok, lets do family life. I have to find the outlines first, one moment please".
The elders were not amused.
An other sunday in the mid 80's an local elder had a boring talk. Then we heard a strange sound, we could not define. Some minutes later the sound returned more intensive. The elder looked upset but did go one with his talk. Some moments later the year text behind the platform, a hand craft art like middle eastern parchment cylinder made by an handy local witness teared apart and came down creating a dust cloud. The elder did go on, just like nothing happened.
A great moment in our local witness history.
The last one: I visited the international convention in moscow in the early 90's, and was an official delegate. Milton Henschel did the concluding talk. He read a bible text about Armagedon. Just reaching the high point of this scary bible text a flash of a dark cloud above the Lokomotiv stadium came down following an enormous thunder. At that moment I did believe in God for sure!
Gorby
a vomit inducing comment.. i asked why do they have to specify 'meetings'?
they never miss us in tesco or the showcase cinema bar.. in their defence, a friend of mine said: 'that's because the meeting is where they normally would see you.'.
well, if they want to see you they can arrange a meal out or something.
Good topic. It's a strange question, because they don't expect you to answer. It's only a statement, to put you in the corner.
It's a kiss of death.
I know a different statement. When I attended the memorial an idiot elder told me "so you found the road to the hall again". What answer did he expect?
Gorby
in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?
)- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.
wow.
19 pages of reactions on this topic, so I had some time to think about, before posting.
Great topic anyway!!
My opinion, first at all:
Simon has a point, there are far more topics to concern about, the child abuse in the organization, the property investment and finance matters, the blood doctrine, the vision about higher education etcetera etcetera.
Second:
The letter to be discussed with the elders, shows the outside world that people, without realizing, are being observed in the congregation. Observed on their appearance, what is reflecting their personality.
This is so wrong, so North Korea. It's a sect even in these smaller topics.
Gorby
i remember that every time when my father and i came home from the meeting, my mother (who stayed at home for my disabled brother) asked us "who was attending and who wasn't attending".. and then, we took some time to drink coffee and went through the list who was there and who wasn't.
there after there was an opinion made why someone was absent and what this meant in relation with his strength of believe.. just curious, do you recognize this?
gorby.
@slimboyfat, yes I remember that. Even the person who controlled the climate in the hall was topic of discussion. To cold, to warm, not sensitive, windows open / windows closed that lead to catch a cold.
@sparrowdown, yes we share a lot on a global scale!
Thanks all, for sharing, it's important for me.
Gorby
i remember that every time when my father and i came home from the meeting, my mother (who stayed at home for my disabled brother) asked us "who was attending and who wasn't attending".. and then, we took some time to drink coffee and went through the list who was there and who wasn't.
there after there was an opinion made why someone was absent and what this meant in relation with his strength of believe.. just curious, do you recognize this?
gorby.
I remember that every time when my father and I came home from the meeting, my mother (who stayed at home for my disabled brother) asked us "Who was attending and who wasn't attending".
And then, we took some time to drink coffee and went through the list who was there and who wasn't.
There after there was an opinion made why someone was absent and what this meant in relation with his strength of believe.
Just curious, do you recognize this?
Gorby
how many of us were woken up by some apostate yelling false prophets at a convention?.
how many of us were woken up by someone holding a sign and yelling, what happened to 1975.
how many of us were coerced to investigate the wt because some ex-jw pulled up a bunch of old watchtowers magazines and told us to read the false predictions?.
Great topic. I was born in a little harbor town in Holland, a 4th generation witness. Grandfather and father were both elders, I was MS+, doing the public lecture at sunday morning.
What made me wake up?
1) my family were no die hard JW's. Because generations before me were "in the truth" we knew and did discuss about topics like 1975, Russell, Rutherford and 607. At the end the discussion was closed with "ok, this is wrong, but we are the only organization using God's name and doing a world wide preaching, so the rest has happened but is not a focus point".
2) from my early days, during the congregation meetings, I had some feeling that "something was strange", when it became the discussed literature. At the Watchtower study I was reading the magazine and it caused pain in my head.
3) when I was 9 years old, I drove with my father to the secretary's house, we had to hand over our monthly reports, late again as ever. I stayed in the car. And waited 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes and when a hour went over, my father came back. I asked "where did you stay?" he explained that the secretary showed the current Time magazine with an article about Raymond Franz and the organization problems.
4) at the same time in 1980 I was preaching with my father (my all time hero!) and the householder told us "You both lovely people are preaching here at sunday in this extreme cold wintertime weather. Do you know your religion leaders are living in great luxury buildings, have big cars with own drivers, do have own planes? I have seen it all living in the USA, it's all about making profit. You are being used!". My father did some defense, but I never forgot the householders remarks.
5) my JW best friend (studying at University) told me his reverse opinion about the organization when the 1995 generation change occurred. Before that he made sometimes remarks about the organization. It influenced me, and I felt he could be right. Later on the gave me Ray Franz's two books.
6) The books of Ray made me feeling disgusting about the organization. Once read, I could never believe again in my religion.
7) All the information on Internet made me proof most of the witness policy and doctrines are worthless and focused on the interests of the organization only. I read it all, starting on the old Hourglass, then of course the highly valuable jehovah-witness.com and Cedars made some very good points all.
8) Highlights: Ray Franz publications, the declaration of facts written by Rutherford to the Reichsfuhrer of Nazi Germany in 1933, Beth Sarim, the 1874 and 1914 mistake, the closing of the calling, the generation change, the change about voting (you can vote now!), all the financial matters, like using your credit card for donation, and the current generation change with Frederic William Franz for the turning point and of course the change to Television / Broadcasting religion.
Preaching on a cold winter day in 2007 I walked with my lovely wife in a small village noticing that all people were watching us but didn't open the doors. I told my wife, this is my last day in field service. We never went again. The same with attending the meetings. In 2012, after attending, I told my wife, this is the last time I attend a meeting. She agreed with it and now we are only attending memorial to keep the close family satisfied.
Pfff. Gorby
jesus said "look to the fruits" of real christians.. it is unbelievable that the wt says that new anointed christians are merely false.
how can humans decide who is anointed and who's not?.
how can the watchtower society say these unchristian statements?
Jesus said "Look to the fruits" of real Christians.
It is unbelievable that the WT says that new anointed Christians are merely false.
How can humans decide who is anointed and who's not?
How can the Watchtower Society say these unchristian statements?
When I look to their fruits, they are false Christians.
Gorby
a thought on the emphasis of the importance of the new chairman arrangement at the midweek meeting:.
it reminds me of a tv-show, where the showmaster introduces tv-clips of some topics.. is it maybe a preparation for meetings with more and more videos ?.
and all the local brothers are doing is introducing them, creating anticipation for what big skydaddy prepared this week.. i wonder, if most of the meeting times in years to come will be videos anyway.....
we, the guardians of doctrine, are not dogmatic.
just obey!
100 years of kingdom rule is a fact!.
We, the guardians of doctrine, are not dogmatic. Just obey!
100 years of Kingdom rule is a fact!
There is more evidence for Kingdom rule then for the existence of electricity and wind.
Change is the only constant.
Sell your only chicken and don't buy ice-cream. We will invest your assets on a Cayman Island.
