ISP

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Posts by ISP

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  173

  PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

  by Focus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  w73 11/15 703-4 questions from readers ***.

  do paul's words at 1 corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer?

  -u.s.a. here paul was showing the corinthian christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between christians before secular tribunals.

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  ISP

  I said earlier......
  'the WTS has its problems but they are typical of this 'sector'! Pedophiles have targeted 'christian' groups historically. Every Christian belief sytem has its own nightmares in this regard and there is much evidence of cover-ups etc. They are too numerous to tell. I am critical of the WTS in that they should have very clear rules on this. After all they can dominate and rule over millions worldwide and surely they could easily have a uniform approach - that is an example to all. But they are no worse/better than the miserable bunch that operate in this 'market'.'

  Read this if you want to see the whole picture....a picture that goes beyond peurile WTS/Anti-WTS party politics.

  Check this out> http://www.skeptictank.org/clrabuse.htm#ClrAbuseIndex

  ISP

  Edited by - ISP on 4 March 2001 3:51:42

  Edited by - ISP on 4 March 2001 4:30:12
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  2

  For Nelly and Welshman

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  elders book> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=2677&site=3.

  yks last post> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=2527&site=3.

  isp.

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  ISP

  Elders book> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=2677&site=3

  YKs last post> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=2527&site=3

  ISP
  Hope Links Work Class
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  173

  PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

  by Focus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  w73 11/15 703-4 questions from readers ***.

  do paul's words at 1 corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer?

  -u.s.a. here paul was showing the corinthian christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between christians before secular tribunals.

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  ISP

  Hi 6,

  I think we can make all the relevant points re child abuse, like you have without reference to this QRF. Which is my point. I don't think this QFR supports the contention re. the topic title or where I've indicated. The topic title is framed as a question so what is the problem.

  Re. 'legalistic' points, there used by both sides and when you're using them your beating them at their own game and when they do its obfuscation!I am not an apologist by any means but whats the point of nodding ya head to stuff that isn't right. I've done enough of that.

  ISP

  Edited by - ISP on 3 March 2001 20:40:10
• 
  173

  PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

  by Focus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  w73 11/15 703-4 questions from readers ***.

  do paul's words at 1 corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer?

  -u.s.a. here paul was showing the corinthian christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between christians before secular tribunals.

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  ISP

  Hi Waiting

  I don't see what the problem is. In a criminal case the state is at the helm. It says whether the case will be tried on the likelihood of sucess.Time and money are not a consideration by the state.That doesn't mean that no one elses time or money will be expended. Time and expense will be incurred. The difference is you have no choice.

  You may not want to co-operate with the authorities. So what? You will likely be subpoenaed. If you fail to assist likely you will face legal action yourself for contempt of court. In the case you quoted the Judge at first instance has not allowed the prosecution to subpoena 2 individuals. It is going to the Supreme Court who will decide on the matter.

  The WT is quite clearly talking about brothers pursing civil remedies where you have a choice as to whether you pursue the case or not. Such cases can be very expensive and time consuming which is always a consideration.

  The article has no direct bearing on matters of criminality. I

  Hope that helps.

  ISP
• 
  173

  PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

  by Focus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  w73 11/15 703-4 questions from readers ***.

  do paul's words at 1 corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer?

  -u.s.a. here paul was showing the corinthian christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between christians before secular tribunals.

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  ISP

  Hi Focus,

  Lets keep to the point....

  >If I didn't quote the article in entirety, it was wholly inadvertent - sorry.

  Well keep your 'wholly inadvertance' under more control because when you say.....
  >Firstly, the article - which I quoted in full

  are you correct or incorrect? I don't accept your explanation about having material available to you BTW.

  With regard to the WTS advice....
  *** w73 11/15 703 Questions from Readers ***

  Of course, the injured party would want to take into consideration whether it would be worththe time and expense as well as whether the congregation could still come into disrepute by bringing to public attention the actions of one of its former members.

  You are wrong. In a criminal case the state makes the decisions as to whether to pursue the matter on the basis of liklihood of sucess. The injured party does not have to consider the expenseand the time is not a factor either. It is simply not that persons decision. or do you think you can say to the police in a murder investigation...'I've been reading this WT article and I don't think I should get involved becasuse of the time and money involved'....duh?

  In a civil case your own time and money are factors and crucially it is only you that need decide whether the case proceeds ot not.So the WTS is talking about cases that you have control over...i.e.civil cases.

  BTW Focus when I quoted
  *** w73 11/15 704 Questions from Readers ***
  There may even be times when Christian brothers conscientiously feel that they could go to court with fellow believers. This might be to obtain compensation from an insurance company. In some countries the law may specify that certain matters have to be handled in a court, such as wills that may have to be probated by courts.

  It was n't to make out a 'case' as you say but to correct your statement which was.....

  >So - the summary is: "YES, YOU MUST NOT TAKE ACTION AGAINST A FELLOW JW - NO EXCEPTIONS".

  So are there exceptions or are there not?

  And the sanction for non-compliance was........
  *** w73 11/15 704 Questions from Readers ***
  He surely would not be an example for others to imitate, so this would affect the privileges that he might have in the congregation.

  So whats ya problem, if you want to sue your brother because he owes you money, theres nothing stopping you in actual fact. You do so at risk of your priviliges in which case there maybe little loss if you are a sister as oppose to an elder etc.

  BTW I agree this is a serious subject but I don't think the WTS QFR has much bearing on this matter.

  ISP
• 
  173

  PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

  by Focus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  w73 11/15 703-4 questions from readers ***.

  do paul's words at 1 corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer?

  -u.s.a. here paul was showing the corinthian christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between christians before secular tribunals.

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  ISP

  Hi Focus/Danielle and other fragmented personalities;)!

  I thought you have overlooked/misrepresented a few things, whether intentionally or not I hardly care.

  But you said to Xandit regarding whether it was referring to civil matters

  >Firstly, the article - which I quoted in full - neither states nor implies that.

  Well did you quote the article in FULL? I think not. Further more the article did certainly imply that it was talking about civil matters.

  Well it said....*** w73 11/15 703 Questions from Readers ***
  Of course, the injured party would want to take into consideration whether it would be worth the time and expense as well as whether the congregation could still come into disrepute by bringing to public attention the actions of one of its former members.

  Time and expense are only considerations in a civil suit as you know the state takes over the expense of pursuing criminalactions.

  You also said
  >So - the summary is: "YES, YOU MUST NOT TAKE ACTION AGAINST A FELLOW JW - NO EXCEPTIONS".

  But its not. There are exceptions....and its not a fair summary.

  *** w73 11/15 704 Questions from Readers ***
  There may even be times when Christian brothers conscientiously feel that they could go to court with fellow believers. This might be to obtain compensation from an insurance company. In some countries the law may specify that certain matters have to be handled in a court, such as wills that may have to be probated by courts.

  If you go against the WTS 'instructions' do you recall what the sanction was?

  *** w73 11/15 704 Questions from Readers ***
  He surely would not be an example for others to imitate, so this would affect the privileges that he might have in the congregation.

  WOW so ya can't hand the mikes out! Not exactly fire and brimstone for the non-compliant!

  Oh and the point about pedophiles...the WTS has its problems but they are typical of this 'sector'! Pedophiles have targeted 'christian' groups historically. Every Christian belief sytem has its own nightmares in this regard and there is much evidence of cover-ups etc. They are too numerous to tell. I am critical of the WTS in that they should have very clear rules on this. After all they can dominate and rule over millions worldwide and surely they could easily have a uniform approach - that is an example to all. But they are no worse/better than the miserable bunch that operate in this 'market'.

  ISP

  Edited by - ISP on 3 March 2001 4:28:7

  Edited by - ISP on 3 March 2001 5:54:58
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  6

  "An open mind" definition

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for all those who are interested.

  you can serch in your library or cd-r. and enjoy the definition of an "open mind".. .

  ...applications starts in the editor's house.

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  ISP

  I can burn you a copy of the '99 CDROM Simon.

  ISP
  Good Deed For The Day Class
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  25

  Gossip Wars!

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .. edited by - isp on 4 march 2001 3:18:52

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  ISP

  Hey npy, do me a favour and knee hubby in the b@lls cos I don't think it would hurt him........cos I don't think he has any.;)

  ISP
  (Thought That Counts Class)
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  17

  Thanks for the Memories!

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  guys and gals,.

  thanks for all of the great posts on this site.. it's time for me to stop visiting and posting now.... i'm not saying i'll never be back, but i'm gonna take a nice looooong break.. i've enjoyed knowing you tons!.

  for those of you who wanna write me via email, please continue to do so.

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  ISP

  Check ya 'mail........speak to you soon.

  ISP
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  25

  Gossip Wars!

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .. edited by - isp on 4 march 2001 3:18:52

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  ISP

  .

  Edited by - ISP on 4 March 2001 3:18:52