Imagine believing so much in what you do, that you can only do it if you get paid. Oh and the others who help you do what you do? They also believe in it so much they will only help if they get paid. Mind-blowing the logic there.
pr0ner
JoinedPosts by pr0ner
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
It's like it's impossible for him to just shut up. Even now all he has to do is just make content, stop begging, and stop bragging on social media about his personal life. Just make content and slowly build your audience back. That's what a normal person would do. My man is the king of own goals. -
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
I would love to see this play out in court. He will never be able to prove damages. Even worse it would be shown that based on his subscribers who exited, it was his own words that made them leave not anything we (M7) said. That's if he could even prove anything we said was defamation. Again for his defenders reading this, defamation is a high bar. He has to prove lies were told knowingly with the express intent to damage his reputation.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@Borgoff (if you're not gone) and others who agree with their statements please read this and really chew on it
I understand the point you're trying to make. It's similar to Dave Chappelle's, "he rapes but he saves" routine he did around a superhero who can only save people while at the same time raping them. Does the good outweigh the bad? The great thing about not being in a cult is we each get to make that decision ourselves. You can support Lloyd all you want because you believe that the good he does outweighs the bad in his personal life. Where Lloyd completely lost the plot there and where many celebrities/activists do for me, is how they react after the scandal.
Lloyd's reaction was not, "Sorry I did something bad and let a lot of people down". His reaction was, "I did nothing wrong. Fuck you its not your business". Not only that, but his target audience is vulnerable people who are trying to exit a cult whose entire attitude is, "we do no wrong, fuck you".
The JWs make some amazing videos now. Really top-notch high-end stuff that helps people with their daily struggles. They have a great internal community. However, what drives most people away are the actions of leaders. Do you want to keep JWs around because they have genuinely helped hundreds of thousands of people? Or do you want them stopped because of actions that show a lack of compassion to those they hurt?That's the key for me here. He showed ZERO compassion to anyone he hurt. Including to his wife (outside of a claimed apology). Again I would argue its this lack of compassion that drives the majority of jws to leave the cult. They were molested and no one cared. An elder sinned and got away with it. They brought up a valid point and were told to shut up. That ALWAYS outweighs any good the WTBS did or will ever do.
You can judge the WBTS for the actions their leaders do. You can claim the same judgment can't be made on Lloyd for the actions he does. You can say that the good outweighs the bad for Lloyd but not the WBTS. That's fine, but for me, it's just straight-up hypocrisy and there is some mental gymnastics you need to do for that logic.
This isn't even getting to the issue of the impact Lloyd's actions had on sex abuse survivors and the hard work it erased that he was a part of. -
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@Borgoff can you point to any campaign to get Lloyd's books delisted off shelf? You asked if CoC should be taken off shelf if Franz was accused of seeing prostitutes and commoting adultry. Of course not. However would as many people have bought it? What do you think JWs reaction would be if that info came out? Do you believe it would have no impact at all on readership? -
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
Lloyd's true value was going to be tied to him breaking into the mainstream. This has always been the missing piece for ex-jws. Having a good spokesperson who can represent the community and make waves in media. Because, for most of the world they just see JWs as some kooky religion and not the cult that it is.
That is how he was positioning himself. As the go to personality. Sure he has helped JWs exit. That's all well and good but what works better is making sure doors are closed before someone can enter.
This is the reason people clammored to work with him. This is the reason he had so many fans. He was getting exposure outside of the ex-jw community.
He isn't Trump or Charlie Sheen or Bill Clinton who is beloved by millions already and therefore can drive through scandal.
He'll never be that spokesman. Never. Because when you're becoming a spokesperson for a large diverse group you need to be relatable in general facets of life.
This is why he will never ever reach Franz level. Every JW can relate to believing and rising through the ranks. They can relate to wanting a quiet life and having to live in a trailer.
They can't relate to being chased off for adultery. Then going to see prostitutes every month and cheating on your wife. Only a very narrow segment of people globally can imagine themselves doing that.
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@lloydevensparadoy I read all of that in a Shakespearean voice. It feels like a copy-paste of one of those, "and then everybody clapped" memes. Has some strong "I'm a total badass" vibes. But it doesn't make much sense. He was only moderately popular with ex-jws. What kind of blackmail is this? It's also hilarious in his mind he couldn't believe they would dare stand up to his threat. They must not have heard him the first time. Yep, that's gotta be it.
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@Simon I think the whole Ocam's Razor point has a lot of validity to it. I've always been a little skeptical of the Marko thing and I'll explain why. There's a really simple explanation. He planted that himself to make his critics look crazy. Then it backfired on him. So he came clean to Leah Remni. That's why she believed him. He had evidence he planted it himself. That could also explain why Mark O'Donnel denied it for Llloyd. I can see how it also works for him for this to be a wild goose chase. Why he encourages it.
A journalist was looking into him but got dead ends with basic sleuthing. Told me that if he had more time and resources he has no doubt he would find people to talk. Probably would just take 2-4 days of work for a PI or a journalist there on the ground. Due to no one in the real world caring/knowing who Lloyd was, he couldn't find any interest from the media so moved on to other stories.I'm willing to bet either way he would have uncovered a lot of things Lloyd wants hidden about his past JW life.
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@Vintage
Ah my bad. Totally misread it.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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pr0ner
@144thousand_and_one
Edited and removed my post as I misread....whoops! Sorry about that.