Billy! Great post! But that was going to be along the lines of my next post! You're lucky I'm not as childish or prone to temper tantrums like Jehovah, the cosmicly transcendent 5-year-old. lol Seriously though... very well stated.
darkl1ght3r
JoinedPosts by darkl1ght3r
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
parakeet - Tru dat. As silly as this might sound to a fundamentalist... I place my trust in myself. I trust my ability for reason, logic, and rationalism. As those are the only tools I have at my disposal to determine fact from fiction. (And you've also proven Godwin's Law!)
villabolo - Good point. And to be fair, one can't say Hitler was necesserily a Christian either (not saying you did, but for the sake of clarity...), since his beliefs were rather murky. At times that he deemed it politically expediant, he professed anger at Jews for "killing the savior" and used other Christian themes in his speech. While there were also times that he expressed hatred towards Christianity. He was a savvy politician and often spoke out of both sides of his mouth. The one thing that can be certain however is that he was at least a deist, and believed he was doing God's work (whatever that meant). There's lots of good articles on the subject. Bottom line: No one knows for sure, but it's enough to say that he was just an evil bastard.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
People should think seriously about this image as they contemplate the factuality of the flood fantasy...
The three spheres are 1) The Earth (duh) 2) The total amout of water on the planet [326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons], and 3) The total amount of FRESH water on the planet. Hope that gives you some perspective.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
"This is interesting. Here's a newly discovered ocean....it's true. Right here on good 'ole planet earth:"
Yes that is interesting. Science is truly an amazing thing. It still does nothing for your flood fantasy. If you had read the article carefully they're not talking about an underground "ocean" (ala Journey to the Center of the Earth) but rather the total amount of water contained in one portion of the earths mantle under eastern Asia. Whats interesting is that the explanation of how it got there completely goes against both your "young earth" fantasy and your flood fairy tale. Please read and TRY to comprehend the entire article next time, instead of getting excited over a sensational headline.
"For the record, I am not saying that the known "evidence" supports a global flood."
That's good you admit that. Because NONE of it does. Yet you believe it anyway. Strange.
"As the secularists gain control of the world, people who view themselves as apes like Missing Link will increasingly make the rules of life and death for others, marrying their ideology to the state."
Blah, blah, blah. Typical right-wing fundie slippery-slope argument. Bullsh!t.
"Whereas Christianity was supposed to be separate from government, this separateness is the duty of all Christians."
AMEN! At last we agree on something! Now if only we could convince the remaining 99% of your fundamentalist bretheren of this, and try to get them to stop using our religion-neutral Government to legislate their irrational beliefs! Lets collaborate!
"Secularists are under no such obligation."
In principle, sure. Since there is no "10 Commandments of Secularism". But, if you think this something to be concerned about, you don't understand secular humanist philosophy very well. Which doesn't suprise me. Basically, 'To each his own' is an extremely strong opinon among secularists. They (we) only get riled up when the Government is used to legislate particular religious views. For example, when school boards try to force students to learn about creationism instead of science. Your brethren seem to think that by not being allowed to shove their religion down other peoples throats, that somehow THEIR rights are being impinged upon.
Secularists seek only a society where the religious and the non-religious are equally free.
"Have you ever known a secularist that wasn't a baby killer?... even if passively. I haven't. Yet these are the same people that scream obsenities when presented with the mangled fruit of their choices. It's called denial. These same folks deny huge holes in their uniformitarianism theory that drives their arrogance. It is all related."
Have you ever known a Christian that wasn't a bloodthirsty warmonger?... even if passively? I haven't. Yet these are the same people that scream 'persecution' when presented with the violent and barbaric nature of their history, holy book, and God.
The "huge holes" you describe are only in the heads of fundamentalits. Not in the science. You havn't described any that havn't been handily shot down yet. Would you care to name some more? I'd also like to point out the fact that you've ignored my earlier comment that if you think that there are things (or "holes") left unexplained by current theories, there would be a mountain UNIVERSE of unexplainable phenomena if we tried to force a young age on this obviously old universe.
The "old earth/universe" theories WIN because they exaplian FAR MORE than other so-called "theories". Oh, and they also win BECAUSE THEY'RE BACKED BY ALL THE EVIDENCE.
You accuse science of arrogance, when the driving force behind it are statements such as, "I don't know if..." and "I wonder what happens when..." and "I wonder how..." Where as in religion the statement is "I ALREADY KNOW AND NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE." It takes humility to be willing to change ones viewpoint, no matter how cherished. THAT is the definition of intellectual honesty and a vital quality that nearly all creationists lack.
"Like I've said many times, people see what they want.... and some of these people want to force others through intimidation to "see" as they do."
Pot calling the kettle black much? Ironically, I don't know any atheist that wants to force other to believe as they do. But historically... this is exactly what Christians are known for.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
"Seen your link before dark...utter nonsense."
That link reflects the consensus of the scientific community regarding your, "evidence". OK, so it's you vs. the entire scientific community. Sure, you convinced me.
That is why humans are so scary, they can force themselves into total deception at will."
Hearing that statement come from a young earth creationist just destroyed all of the irony-meters within a 20 mile radius.
"Recent examples of "stinking", "rotting" dinosaur tissue, soft tissue, hemoglobin and protein fragments just add to the fossil record of dinosaurs and humans co-existing, destroying many evolutionary claims."
Leolaia already handled this one nicely.
"That's why I went Glen Rose, Tx myself, saw the evidence, talked with Dr. Baugh."
So, if an untrained layperson cant get the full scope from a picture, then that same untrained layperson can aquire some insight that he couldn't before by staring at it through glass? Ok.
If evolutionary scientists are going to make an "unassailable" theory of our uniform/non-catostrophic history it ought to at least have something better to present than denial and accusations of "liar".
They most certainly do have something better to present. And maybe someday you'll work up the courage to investigate the REAL science with an open mind. Scientists call creationists "liars" because that's what many of them are (See Kent Hovind, Duane Gish, and the WTB&TS).
The reality is that these discoveries and others like them, while not disproving an old age for the earth, do provide evidence that evolutionary scientists can and do see what they want to.... just like everyone else.
The reality is... these discoveries and others like them have been debunked over and over by REAL scientists (not like your creationist diploma-mill Ph.Ds), and therefore mean nothing. The few remaining anomolies, in and of themselves are not enough to outweigh the clear and unambiguous mountain of evidence in favor of evolution and an old universe.
I'd also like to inform you that Francis Collins, head of the human genome project, and now head of the NIH, and himself a fundamentalist Christian, and a GOOD scientist, has stated that even with out a fossil record, DNA evidence alone is enough to confirm common ancestry. This guy has forgotten more about DNA than you or I will ever know.
I'd love to stay a post more but I've got a philosophy paper due tomorrow! Peace out!!!
Don't drink the Kool-Aide!
Too late! You've already polished it off!!!
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
And what "holes" would those be Perry? Do you cite deficiencies in one theory as evidence for your own? That's not how science works. Positive claims require positive proof. But the evidence for a 4.5 billion year old earth is iron clad, and is based on physical laws that your god supposedly put in place. If you like I can go into more detail as that is a subject I've spent some time researching. But If you think that the current scientific model leaves a few things unexplained, there are a myriad MORE unexplainable problems that would arise from trying to force a young age onto this 13.5 billion year old universe (and 4.5 billion year old earth).
And about your "footprints", that's been debunked. Sorry.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC101.html
And about your question to homer... If God says the earth was ruined, but it wasn't. Doesn't that mean God lied? Or maybe that wasn't God at all. And, personally, I am critical of man's genocides. But man is not God. And I am particularly critical of the fact that most of them were done in the name of your God. And the fact that the framework that allowed those atrocites to take place still exists, and still holds power over many minds.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
Great post Leolaia... I didn't read it untill after I posted mine... I overlapped a few of your points. :)
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New Songbook Songs for download at JW.org
by cattails inthe new songbook's songs piano arrangement and the choral voice versions are available for download at http://www.jw.org/
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darkl1ght3r
No thanks... If I want that kind of noise I'll just call my credit card company and ask to be put on hold.
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121
Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark
by Blue Grass inabout a week or two ago i watched a documentary about the flood in noah's day entitled "in search of noah's ark".
two things i found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth.
scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out.
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darkl1ght3r
"Two things I found very interesting in this program is a theory that one person had about how they believed the flood was caused due to a meteor hitting the ocean creating a tsunami that flooded the entire earth. Scientist were unanimous in their view that this is a very plausible scenario and that there is no way to rule this possibility out."
A theory that one person had? Scientists were unanimous? What you mean is that the "scientists" they interviewed said it was a plausible scenerio. That is certainly NOT a consensus among the scientific community. And THERE IS a way to rule that possibility out. It's called evidence... and as yet, THERE IS NONE TO SUPPORT THAT CLAIM. The facts show that there is no reason to think there was a worldwide disaster around the given timetable for the flood in the Bible.
"If that is how the flood happened, that would answer the question of where did the water come from and where did it go."
No it doesn't. Not in the slightest. That's just wishful thinking on your part. Do some actual research instead of latching on to some baseless claims that superficially support your favorite childhood bedtime story. Flood waters from a tsunami would subside in a matter of days, maybe weeks, but not a year. And you forget that we're talking about enough water to cover the highest mountains. For a year. A YEAR.
"Another thing I found interesting is that despite the fact that the producers of the program didn't believe in the Bible's account of a global flood, even they had to acknowledge that there was at least a localized flood that wiped out a lot of people in the Middle Eastern area due to the overwhelming evidences."
Yes. There is evidence of a LOCALIZED flood in the Mesopotamian region around the supposed time of the Noachian flood. But that evidence is far from overwhelming, and if true (heres the point you're missing) it would still mean that the Biblical account is incorrect. The logic you're using here is equivalent to saying that because the historical city of Troy existed, then the events described in Homer's Odyssey could have taken place as well.
"...the fact that it's been recorded by so many different civilizations is evident that a major flood took place in earth's history."
No. It's evidence that floods are common in human history, which is to be expected considering that ancient peoples typically settled near ample water sources. You're assuming all of the stories originated with the same event. And even if they did, it doesn't give credence to your version of choice as the ONE true account.
"For example if two people say they saw a blue car crash a tree, your natural reaction wouldn't be to think one is copying other, but that a car (most likely blue) hit something (most likely a tree)."
Right. And what if a third and fourth "witness" came up and said it wasn't a blue car, but rather a red truck, and the it didn't hit a tree but rather a light pole? But then two more "witnesses" approached and said the others were lying and that it wasn't a car or truck at all, but an airplane that hit a communications tower? And what if still another "witness" approaches and says it was a magical carriage driven by pixie faries and didn't crash but stopped abruptly to dispense candy to children waiting on the street corner and then magically disappeard in a poof of fire and smoke?
THAT is more like the situation we're dealing with when we consider all of the various flood accounts. Now consider that the crash took place in the distant past, in an undisclosed location, and that the witnesses were anonymous, dead, lived in different regions of the world, and at different times in history.
What reasonable conclusions can be drawn from tieing together all those disparate stories? Very few.
"It wouldn't be logical to think so many people thousands of years ago who didn't know each other decided to simultaneously make up the same fairy tale."
True. IF it were the same fairy tale. But it's not. It's many different fairy tales that happen to share a common theme. Many, many myths from around the world share common themes. This doesn't mean they're not still myths. I recommend reading the works of Joseph Campbell for some scholarly perspective on common themes in mythology. In particular the Masks of God series, and The Hero With a Thousand Faces.
I recommend reading them. But I doubt you will. Real research is hard. And it takes courage.
LOGIC. You can't buy it at Wal-Mart.
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Watchtower Sends Legal Notice To Website Regarding Coyright Infringement
by Bangalore inthe watchtower has sent a legal notice to the owners of the eds blog for posting copyrighted material without permission.
here is the link to the trancript.
the site owners response is also there.. .
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darkl1ght3r
Wow. Absolutely wow.
Anyone who doubts how legalistic and pharisaic the Society has become need look no further than the ESD blog. I don't recall Jesus being described as walking around with a team of lawyers... or even Paul, or John, or Peter, or anyone.
This is completely opposite to Jesus' methods. Anyone remember the situation (I think it was in Luke) where Jesus apostles wanted to go rebuke the individual who was performing miracles in Jesus' name but was not one of the 12? What did Jesus say? 'Let him be. If he is not against us then he is for us.', or something like that. Jesus wasn't upset that someone was infringing on his copyright.
Even though I've been out for a year now, and I got out because of the lies and corruption, I'm still shocked at the hypocrisy that boils out of that organization. They only pay lip service to the scriptures they claim to revere. But in reality they're as cold and mechanical as any other "for-profit" corporation out there. It's like the former Enron CEOs decided to start a religion.
TRULY a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Sad.
