Posts by Paulapollos

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Jookbeard,

regarding Phil Harris, I always got on with him - he was a lovely chap. His wife is seriously ill, or was. Very sad. My best wishes to them, if you or any on here are still in touch with them.

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Acolytes - you mentioned Rick Bell - I think you'#re right! He definitely has authority (ifI remember him rightly, he has glasses, very softly spoken, very polite)

Billy - yes, I am a true-blue, dyed in the wool,ex-bethelite - I beleive in multiple recycling and nothing should be thrown away till it literally falls apart! However, I'm recovering, and I'm sure you will too!

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Hi Sarah,

thank you for your post asking me whether I think all Witnesses are selfish. Let me just say that, I hope I didn't offend you in any way. My opinion is just that, isn't it - an opinion. It should have as much credence put by it as Miracle Wheat!

Having said that, in that derided opinion, I am going to go out on a limb, and say (please don't be offended, it's just my opinion) I personally beleive that the vast vast majority of JW are as selfish and materialistic as the people they condemn. I can't see how the words of Romans do not apply to them? Paul said that "there is no-one that searches for God" - and he was talking about the "believing" good jews and greeks, indeed, every single christian of his day. The impact of that isn't and wasn't lost on me at the time - there is no-one if you believe the Bible, that serves God perfectly out of altrusitic unselfish motives. Take me as an example. I believe in God, and the Bible, very strongly. But why? Yes, it might all be true (again, my opinion), but isn't also true that it gives me some strengthand stability, black and white guidance in a world where I see shifting moral values, inconsistency, hypocrisy. and modernism? Is it not equally true that believing in God, is for me, a security blanket? Let me just say, if that is the case, there is nothing wrong with that, and it does not mean that God is not real, or the Bible is not true - but one thing I learnt at Bethel, and as I read the Bible, was to stop putting a positive candyfloss spin on my own emotions and motivations - either the whole bible applies to me, including it's condemnation of my nature and my works (isaiah 43, whree it says all our good works are like a used sanitary towel), and motives thereof, or I can be a Witness and just apply the bits i wanted, especially to make myself feel better.

When I look at the Watchtower, how many times is Paradise mentioned, compared to occurences in the Bible? Every issue, pictures of the utopia. Why? Someone on here rightly said that it is not wrong to want those things that God provided - and I agree, of course. But if that is the motivation, then I think it should not be hidden. Let's just be honest. People say, but I serve Jehovah now, and do all I do because I love him. Well, I am sure that there are some who do. But I have seen too many lectures by the GB at Bethel, and heard too many talks, and done too many shepherding visits, to believe it is true of the majority. I agree with Paul in Romans 3. I simply ask this

If tmw, the GB said, we have got things wrong, and published a WT saying - there will be no paradise, all that there is, is this life, and what ou make of it - how many people would spend their time as a pioneer? If the WT published a WT saying, Jehovah wants us to pioneer and simply tell people about Armageddon, and that everyne will die - how many would do that? If they said - ecery single witness must live up to the moral standards, and must "be perfect" as Jesus said, how many would keep that up? How many would "slow down", if they were told that the utopia was a fantasy(Im not saying it is, im just theorising)? How many would go out preaching, if they didn't have to? How many would make the sacrifices and face the challenges they do, and be as strict as to thier life choices and higher education and meeting attendance and all the myraid rules and regulations of the modern talmud of the WT, and bible reading, and increased preaching activity, and obedience? Some would - but for how long? How long before their love cools off? How long before they are tied up in other concerns? I think Jesus words would be apt - "When the Son of Man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?" I don;t think he asked those words with a cheeky smile to himself.

Please understand, I am not condemning anyone, or trying to be like some self-righteous pharisee, or anything. I am very very selfish, inherently. I happen to think we all are, when it comes to the crunch. And my personal belief is that Romans 3 applies to religious people, as Paul intended it to - we are serving God, but because of rewards, stability, security - and I think that applies to JW's too. I don't think they are exempt at all. I see no nobility of nature, no soaring aspiration to make everyone's lives better. I see an organisation that preaches selfishness - "We are going to paradise, God says we must preach, come to paradise with us, but you will only get there if you keep preaching". Hardly any mention of the facts that the Bible teaches about how "wicked and selfish" we all are. (Sorry if anyone doesn't beleive in the Bible, I'm just explaining my views from a Biblical view, that's all)

I'm sure I'm wrong, that there are some people who love God, and serve him purely out of love for him. But I happen to think they are so few and far between, and are spoken of as the sons of the kingdom. Apart from that, I'm sorry to say that I really do believe that the vast majority of JW are as selfish and materialistic as everyone else.

If the tone of this comes across as some ridiculous lecture, or harsh or anything, please forgive me - I said some time ago, I'm not a very good writer, and I'm just throwing my thoughts on paper - please don;t feel this is an attack on any position, any belief, and any person. It's just my opinion - and although I had so many Bible verses I wanted to put in, I'm not sure of this being the right place to do it - some people here are atheists and agnostics, and I don't want to ram my beliefs down their throats. Why should they have to put up with that? They have understandably had enough of God, the Bible and religion, and I don;t want to make them feel uncomfortable. If I have offended anyone at all, in any way, I am very sorry. I hope you will forgive a fool.

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Quietly leaving,

lets say, the women are far more dangerous to the WT then the men were!

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Bohm,

no problem about the questions, anytime. freeminds would be a nice idea actually, you never know, maybe it would help someone!

Jookbeard, you asked who the top brass at london are

Branch Commitee is

Peter Ellis (Helper to the GB) (Overseer of Service Department)

Stephen Hardy ("Serves" as a Zone Overseer) (Overseer of Writing, Co-ordinator)

Peter Bell (Factory or production or something)

Jack Dowson (Overseer of Garage and things like that)

Paul Gillies (Who knows what this man oversees?!)

Dennis Dutton (Home Overseer)

Stephen Papps (Translation)

There are others, including one particularly nasty piece of work, but for the life of me, I can't remember their names at the mo! It will come back to me, I think?!

The other sort of big names there are John Ravn, some guy named something Williams who does all the engineering/factory stuffall over the world, Phillip Morris (Tyrant of the Kitchen), and a whole host of others desperate to get on the ladder

sorry it took so long to deal with your question.

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Quietlyleaving

you are correct, they certainly are underestimatiing the women. They know full well the opinions of the two wives, but deliberately are trying to leave them alone - both women are firebrands when it comes to using the bible, and it just wouldn't fit the rumors!

Sadly, I have too much experience of the Brach Commitee members to respect them in any way at all. Very sad, and judgemental I know, but there you go. Hopefully in time, I will learn to see them as they truly are - very mistaken individuals who need a few lessons in real life.

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Hi Freddo

I'm not sure about waking people up – I think maybe I'm too undermined, have been tarred too much by the Branch Committee, to be of any use to Witnesses still in, who still have some sembalance of belief in it!

Regarding the wives being left alone, I didn't want to say that earlier because it is only my opinion, but yes, I believe that is exactly the case – it added to the smokescreen. Somewhat convenient.

As for the Mike Pottage issue – you know, that is one thing I could never stomach really. If someone has done something so hurtful, and harmed children like that, there is no need to pretend that it hasn't happened. Publicly speaking from the platform, without going into details so as to spare the people involved, clearly condemning it, and reassuring the victims that you care, that you are sorry for any mistakes that you may have made, and that you will do all you can to help them cope – isn't that responsible, isn't that loving? Wouldn't that be the beginning of caring? I can't help but be cheesy here, and say “If Jesus was here, what would he do?” I never understood – it happened, and the people needed to see that this organisation cares. And instead, they get essentially – nothing. That's painful, and in my personal opinion, utterly wrong.

I'm glad you knew it was obstufucation!

To be honest, I haven't thought of a letter – but I'm not sure who would read it. After all, I am a “dangerous, vile, disloyal, satanic apostate” - hardly likely to qualify as “commendable reading material” for my wholesome Christian associates! As for a support group, I haven't the foggiest on how to do that, but if I could help to do something, than that would be nice – if you have any suggestions or ideas or places I can assist, let me know. I probably wouldn't be of much use, but I'll do what I can!

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry for the delay, and the fact that this will be a long post. I'm really sorry, but I just thought I'd answer as many of your points as I could on one post.

Just one thing to start this off – I remembered earlier something you all need to know. A rumor was encouraged by certain members of the Branch Committee that the people involved were disfellowshipped for something to do with immorality. Of course, the BC did not say that outright, but encouraged the thought, based on the fact a sister was disfellowshipped some time later. It was a deliberate and convinient smokescreen. But let me make it clear for everyone – the 4 brothers were disfellowshipped for apostasy – that was it, end of. No amount of rumors and mis-representations can change the facts.

Ok, now I have cleared that up, let me answer your points as I can – I'll do it chronologically.

Yesidid -

Actually, I have not read the entirety of Ray's book, though I would like to. However, being a very cheap kind of person, unless I can get it on a free pdf, or other, I don;t think I'm likely to buy it!! Cheap I know!

Sapphy – regarding the idea of other Bethelites being forbidden to talk – those working in the confidential department, certainly. Others, I'm not sure – I know that, due to the rumors encouraged by the Branch committee, Bethelites tell me there is a great deal of confusion at Bethel about the whole affair. So perhaps that is why? Why do you ask?

Freeatlast1914 – the wives were amazing. None of them got disfellowshipped, even though they made it clear to the Committees that they believed the same (their husbands had talked to them, and shared the Bible), which just adds to the confusion at Bethel. The wives were even more militant and forthright about it, and the Branch committee was scared to touch them, because they were so popular.

Aligot Ripounsous – you are so correct to say that my appreciation of the power politics was sharpened at Bethel. I was very innocent to all that, till I went to the den of seething iniquity known as Bethel. What I saw, heard, and experienced there, over the course of my time there, convinced me that Jesus' words about whitewashed graves are nowhere more applicable, especially if you have “authority” in that organisation. I saw too many things, heard too many stories, saw too many people crying, bullied, and oppressed, experienced the utter ignorance of too many people regarding the Bible, to even tell you what a shock it was to my system!

As for the average JW being ignorant of even their own theology – to be honest, I think the WT has deliberately fostered the uneducated, ignorant, happy-clapping, non-critical-thinking Witnesses, thru the pages of God's Own Journal TM, and sadly, that has led to many Witnesses being unable to even see the implications of what they believe on a certain point, relevant to their canon of other beliefs. Before I was branded an apostate, and was a normal witness, I was shocked at the utter level of ignorance about even what we were “all” supposed to believe, and the lack of thinking of how that fit into all the other things. A real shame.

Truthexplorer – thanks for your kind words. I know you won't take it as false modesty, but I honestly don't believe it was courage. Yes, we all lost friends and family, but that was the price we all paid. Everyone's situation is so different isn't it? We all know that the average Witness is materialistic and selfish – they are obsessed with going into a Paradise, where they get to pet lions, swim with dolphins, build giant houses, go on yachts around the world, eat the best food, have no war, suffering, and most of all, get to share their prosperity with family and friends, who can spend time congratulating each other on survival and service, so they can feel good about themselves, and pat each other on the back . Let's face it, they are happy with God's Kingdom if it provides all that, and stays up there in heaven, without getting too involved in their personal lives. The fact is, they want a social club, a community where they all praise each other for their integrity, and revel in how they got thru. And that is the fault of the WT. The Wt leaders are selfish. So they appeal to others on the basis of selfishness. And then, later some Witnesses find out certain things – but by now their whole life is utterly tied up in the social club, the community of the present-day Jehovah's Witnesses. If they leave, they lose it all – family, friends, all that in their eyes, makes life worth living. When I think of that – whose fault is it? The Witness, who has been shaped and molded – maybe a bit, yes. Or the Organisation? I know who I blame. That's why I never feel it is courage. I just feel sorry for those trapped, and that''s why I come on this site. To offer my support, so they can have someone to talk to, if they want, and so that they can benefit from my experience.

I totally and utterly agree with everything you say about the mediator and the partaking of the emblems, as well as the context of the scripture. I'm so so glad your wife was talking to you, and you were able to share it with her. Keep doing that! The two of you together, can prove to be a strong bulwark against the teachings and the control of the organisation. ~And as for you getting more zealous – you won't be able to help it. Trust me, I know. It will just flow out of you. Don't try to stop it – let it flow, because by trying to stop it, you only harm yourself and those around you more. I know you will.

Besty – I'm afraid the others don't really come on here, or any other site. I am really the only one out of that group that goes in for this sort of thing. Maybe they will in future, but I leave that to them. Sorry about that.

Quietly leaving – I may know your friend.....

Eyeslice, Wobble – I agree. Dogmatic, unyielding, and fearful of you using the bible. That summarises the whole organisation. I saw that when I was being hounded!!

Dozy – I won't go too much into it, simply because of detail, but yes, it involved the Translation Department and the Writing Committee, and yes, it involved researching the meaning of Biblical concepts and verses in context, and how they are translated and explained and handled, and doing all that. To be honest, all such people in these affairs are watched closely, believe me.

Jookbeard – no Co's were involved in the investigation. It was run by the Branch Committee, and it was a team appointed by them, “experienced Bethel brothers.”

Esverdad – in terms of the original context, I don't have time now, because I am heading out, but I will post it to you.

15

Watchtower sez....Napoleon's generation is still alive today!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

based on their new defintion of a "generation" from the 4/15/2010 wt, that is:.

understand jesus words about this generation?.

he evidently meant that the lives of the anointed.

Paulapollos

Ah

Finally, all you apostates who claim the slave keeps changing it's minds, and fits the biblical definition of a false prophet - we have new light, which just proves Jehovah's celestial chariot-like organisation, prophesied by Ezekiel, is alive and kicking today, moving progressively, in a progressive, new light, present truth, kind-of-way. I am so glad to have recieved the light from Mount Brooklyn and the High Priest Council of the Governing Body Of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class, The Rebekah Class, who feeds the Camel-like Other Sheep with the Refreshing Waters Of God's Word, Just When Needed. I shall take this away, an meditate upon it, knowing that this truly is food at the proper time, from the slave, faithfully dispensing nourishing golden nuggets of spiritual richness.

Or, as one poster on this forum put it......

another nugget of utter tripe, polished with Dr Guff's Tu*d Polish.

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Bohm, sorry I didn;t answer yoyour question fully

we didnt have doubts

its just the work we did meant we had to look at the meaning of scriptures in original context and that led to, shall we say, some interesting differences of understanding

of course, the fact we all started, quite independently, to preach it to others meant that it became......noticed