Posts by Paulapollos

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

There is a large emphasis on being "spiritually mature" with regards to the Organisation. They now no longer say things like "We don't make mistakes". When Gerrit Losch came to London , he procedeed to give a talk to the entire family, where we had to sit and listen to him explaining that the GB had made mistakes, such as the Liberty Bonds issue. He brought it up, and he said, and I remember it clearly - "It was wrong. The faithful slave know that we make mistakes - we know it better than you do."

However, he then advised us to be "mature", since apostates use such errors to sow doubt in the minds of unsuspecting onces, and he advised us to do research into the Society publications to see the proofs that God is using the organisation. The primary proofs are the obvious ones, but Fred Franz's Prophetic Pictures also play a large part in it.

So do I think that the GB believe what they say? I think they believe that the Society is used by God, because of the various prophecies that they feel are or have been fulfilled upon them - especially the applications of Franz. In terms of understanding the Bible in context - there are very few "scholars", if any, in the WTBTS or on the GB. They get most of their "new light" from old commentaries. Sadly, I think that says all that needs to be said.

PP

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

Paulapollos

Snowbird,

Thank you, that was what I was thinking of.

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Thank you SD 7, your words are very kind.

Jookbeard, we probably do know people in common.

quietlyleaving, if it was mentioned at bethel, that means people are writing letters of complaint or inquiry to the service department - and if it was peter ellis or stephen hardy who mentioned it, well, let us say that the Big Guns were being wheeled out to squash any dissent

Peter Ellis once gave a morning worship where he asked why on earth people danced to music at weddings - and he was not joking. I remember it distinctly.

He and Mr Hardy also gave a little presentation where they explained that the GB member David Splane, explained that the way the Governing Body come to "new light" is not by revelation o fholy spirit, but only thru Bible study and research, and that none of the members of the GB have more holy spirit than any member of the annointed or the other sheep.

Yes, they said that to the whole Bethel family at Morning Worship. I kid you not.

PP

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

Paulapollos

Minimus,

I actually believe that this is probably more to do with fear of freedom of expression, than anything else. At Bethel, I saw many people who dislike the idea of "conscience matters". Why was that? It was because in rules, they had security, a way of proving that they were "good", and others needed to respect, and even take direction from them. And I see no difference with the GB. How dare anyone even consider that the meaning of a Biblical passage is different to the published thought! I often had to struggle with the team I worked with, advising them of the context, them arguing with me, saying "No, it doesn't mean that" - and then I would pull out an old WT that would say "in it's original context, the writer meant..."It took a visit from a head honcho to tell our teams that they needed to show some respect to "context". And even then....well, lets just say that the teams were not co-operative. And the reason was this - who are you to tell us what it means? Pride. I honestly believe that is a primary reason behind the GB's treatment of "apostates". There is a quote I need to find to back it up - a WT quote, basically saying, "we don;t need you apostates to teach us!"

PP

130

Paulapollos

by minimus in

jw
friends

thank you for joining this site.

your inner knowledge is simply fascinating.

please tell us more!!!!

Paulapollos

Hi,

Well, I'm not sure how I feel being seen as an apostate, in the sense that the Society teaches all the Witnesses that it means I have rejected God, and I am nothing more that an evil creature, destined for Gehenna, and tring to take everyone else with me. It seems that when I came into the organisation, no-one ever told me that I was going to join a religion where f I disagreed, or even thought that the interpretation of a prophecy or something was not fully correct, I would be thrown into oblivion, socially speaking. No-one advertised that to me when they were using the Knowledge book on me!

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Ah, that's what it means!

Actually, it's normally chips, egg, sausages if you're lucky, beans and bread on a Saturday, and a "roast" on Sunday. Actually, it's quite remarkable, especially since it is accomplised by very few people on the weekend!

Many bethelites have personal usb sticks for their own private internet connections - who knows what sites they visit?

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Jookbeard,

The average JW at Bethel is aware that sites exist, but in reality, it is important to realise that all internet activity at Bethel is monitored and reviewed. Strict filters exist on the software, and "innappropriate" material is flagged up. The IT department has recorded logs of all persons using the bethel broadband connections in their rooms, and the logs are subject to scrutiny. Unless you work in the IT department, or have friends there, it is unlikely you will use the Bethel internet access to ever go to site such as this. I say that, but maybe someone has, and has been found out.

I'm not sure what IIRC means, but when did Simon shut down JWD? I certainly never saw any "rejoicing" - but then, that kind of information would never be discussed at Morning Worship, and the average Bethelite would never, ever, discuss it with other Bethelites, if they were even aware of it. If there is is a Bethelite on this site, I am surprised, and would tell him to be very careful - obviously though, he must be if he hasn't been caught yet.

The mentality at Bethel is a machine, an army that is absolutely loyal to Jehovah, represented by the faithful and discreet slave, represented by the Branch Commitee, represented by the elders, represented by your overseer. Absolute loyalty and obedience is required - but of course, more flexible overseers try to lighten the atmosphere, allow some goofing around. Bethel can be a fantastic experience if you treat it like a social club. Apostates are without doubt, and especially now at Britain Branch, utterly reviled, hated and feared. They are absolutely considered to be satanic in some way, and there is an unspoken belief that they are in league with each other. It seems that many Witnesses believe that their only goal in life is to bring down Jehovah's organisation, to poison everyone against Jehovah and Jesus, by poisoning them against the GB etc. It is a level of paranoia unheard of. In truth, no-one talks or mentions apostates publicly, unless someone in authority does, either at morning worship or in a talk to the family. Obviously, there was a large fallout once we were all disfellowshipped, so I'm sure there was a higher level of discussion at the dinner table. Oh, of course, people were probably discussing it privately.

PP

37

Were You Afraid To Talk Out Loud For Fear The Demons Might Hear You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know of many witnesses that were petrified that if they spoke about something out loud, the demons.

i swear jws think the demons.

Paulapollos

I think this may be due to the fact that the witnesses practice a sort of dualism - satan is so powerful in their heads, almost a demigod.

very strange

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

Donuthole,

I would like to say that every single thing you said on your post is very close to my opinion, regarding these matters.

It is this fundamental focus on the self, and their bodily desires, that has blinded the organisation and has led to all kinds of weird and strange doctrines, including the literal 144,000, limited partakers, the absolutely disgusting idea that the blood of jesus applies to the great crowd/os in one way, but the vital body of jesus doesn't - frankly, the lack of Biblical knowledge, and the complete lack of interest shown there, is another indicator that it is the "effort = reward" system that the WT has foisted onto Witnesses that has robbed them of all the things they can have right now. no wonder they don't understand the whole "great crowd in heaven" thing!

Warm love to all

PP

310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

Paulapollos

hi,

I just wanted to make an observation about another thing I was thinking of, and that in my opinion is simply not true, was the oft-repeated idea that "JW's love Jehovah". But in my experience, and again, may I stress, this is only my opinion, that is simply not true. I simply do not believe that "JW's love Jehovah". If anyone reads this, and gets offended, I truly truly apologise - but I just felt that since somenone raised it, it would only be proper to tell you my personal observations and opinion.

The reason that I hold this opinion is this - the Jehovah that JW's love is a heavily sanitised idol that each one of them has constructed in their heads. It is not the Jehovah we find in the Bible. I remember giving a talk once, where I asked the question - Is it right to do something if it goes against your conscience? I remember the head-shaking. Then, I asked is it right to murder? I remember the head-shaking. Then I asked, so how is it ok to murder your son? Silence. Then I said, in the Bible, God tries to get Abraham to go against his conscience - to murder someone. And then I listed a list of things in the Bible that are against "a Bible-trained conscience", which is one of the primary things the WT pushes. The Jehovah we find in the Bible constantly violates the "Bible-trained conscience." He tells people to commit acts of genocide, murder, assasination, accepts deceit and land-robbery. Yet, how many Jehovah's Witnesses love that Jehovah?

In this country, we used to have an advert for Werther's Original sweets. It's some kind of toffee, I think. Anyway, there is a grandfather in it, and he is always patting the child on the head, giving him sweets, and generally being a sweet old man. I, after so many years dealing with the publications and the teaching, believe that this is what JW's are doing to God - they are constructing an idol of him, an image which they worship. The majority of JW's want God to be that grandfather - sweet, kind, emotional, gentle. They worship that image. Others recognise that it isn't the case, so they like the "fire and brimstone" God. Yet in reality, both parties love an image of God, where they have cherry-picked the bits that appeal to their respective tastes. The reality is, that if God exists, which I believe he does, he is ruthless and compassionate, kind and stern, loving and harsh, angry and calm, he is a dangerously passionate person. In Ezekiel, he spends half the time fulminating in rage against Israel, saying he is going to annihilate them, then says, but no, I love you so much! That is the picture the Bible paints of Jehovah. How many Witnesses love that Jehovah? The dangerous, unpredictable, I don't care how hard you work because everything you do is not good enough to meet my standards, Jehovah?

There is so much more I could say, so many scriptures I could and have used in the past to show why I think this, but I am sure the majority of them are well-known to you all, and that there is little point!

I have said it before, and I will again. In my opinion, the vast majority of JW's are Bible-illiterate. They do not know the God of the Bible at all - they beliive in the image they have constructed, which depends on what personality they have, and which WT articles they set more credence by. It is that image they love - not the God they find in the Bible. And I believe that this is just as true of me, as it is of them, or the vast majority of religious people. We are not honest enough to face things squarely when it comes to God. That's my opinion, and I know that it probably wrong!

Again, if I have offended anyone, please forgive me.

Love to all

PP