Posts by Paulapollos

24

How Many Apostates Are At Bethel?

by mentallyfree31 in

does anybody personally know people at bethel that are "apostate" but still undercover?

surely there has to be a handul at least.

perhaps they are still there, until they can get things in order to leave...

Paulapollos

I'm not sure about some Bethels, but I think in the UK Bethel there were nowhere near as many apostates as you would think, not at all. It is a very......zealous and driven place, and difference of opinion on scriptural matters is not really something that can be tolerated, in any way. I do think that many suffer from disillusionment with the responsible ones, rather than any deep-seated doubts regarding doctrine -- I saw a lot of this, and I'm sure other ex-Bethelites here can confirm that was present at their own branches.

As for discrimination once you leave, it is not the employers that cause problems - it is the reference you recieve from Bethel that causes the issue if you have been disfellowshipped.

Regards

PP

3

Ted Jaracz Funeral Brochure

by Paulapollos in

jw
friends

i don't know if anyone has this, but i have the funeral brochure for ted jaracz.

does anyone know how can i upload this to the forum?.

Paulapollos

ah lovely, it was already done.

thank you titus

pp

3

Ted Jaracz Funeral Brochure

by Paulapollos in

jw
friends

i don't know if anyone has this, but i have the funeral brochure for ted jaracz.

does anyone know how can i upload this to the forum?.

Paulapollos

I don't know if anyone has this, but I have the funeral brochure for Ted Jaracz. Does anyone know how can I upload this to the forum?

27

JWs District Convention 2010 Drawn Closer to Jehovah. My reflections

by onemore in

jw
friends

september will mark my first year out of the watch towers darkness (pun intended).

i embarked on my full blown search for truth about the truth in april 2009, and by september of that same year i was convinced the organization was no different than any other religion; but i was wrong again.

because if there were like any other christian denomination, such as the baptists, methodists, presbyterians, lutherans, etc...it would have been a lot easier to endure sitting in their meetings, listening to their rhetoric, and engaging in some of their activities.

Paulapollos

Mad Sweeny,

I fear you have nailed it. Lions and lemurs, pandas and parrots, sailing round the world, big houses.........yes, it's Jam tomrrow for the brethren.

PP

27

JWs District Convention 2010 Drawn Closer to Jehovah. My reflections

by onemore in

jw
friends

september will mark my first year out of the watch towers darkness (pun intended).

i embarked on my full blown search for truth about the truth in april 2009, and by september of that same year i was convinced the organization was no different than any other religion; but i was wrong again.

because if there were like any other christian denomination, such as the baptists, methodists, presbyterians, lutherans, etc...it would have been a lot easier to endure sitting in their meetings, listening to their rhetoric, and engaging in some of their activities.

Paulapollos

I think what really staggers me is that it seems no-one notices? Is it really true that people sit there, and think "yes, this is totally plausible and rational, and normal? It really was like this." Is that real? Did no-one here ever start to think...hmm...when the drama was on? When we worked on the dramas, they slowly got more and more ludicrous - the last one I worked on was the John drama - and a more anachronistic drama I have never seen. Looks like it has been surpassed.

PP

65

Governing Body 2.0

by drew sagan in

i borrow the phrase gb 2.0 from alltimejeff, who used it yesterday in the post about theodore jaracz's death.. i was interested in starting a thread that addresses the new leadership regime that has emerged within the wts, especially in light of changes (albeit mundane) the organization has undertaken over the past 15 years or so.

while few of us have had close contact with the men in charge, changes they have made in recent years surly reflect a definable leadership style.

it also reveals a little bit about how they view the organization and its future.. from what i can put together, it seems that there a few obvious things to note.. - 1999 seems to be the sea change year in terms of gb appointment and might be seen sybolically as a turning point in terms of leadership for the group.

Paulapollos

I must say that I found this discussion very thought-provoking. It would seem that there is a shying-away from the “prophecies” that used to be discussed, but I genuinely believe that this is more to do with the idea that the prophetic foundations of the organisation are fundamentally sound, and the focus now should be on being morally clean to be ready for Armageddon.

Although there has been a softening of tone in the more available WT's and so forth, there most certainly has not been in the instructions to elders, nor in the organisational approach to problems. The key here is that the organisation seem to be pursuing a twin-track approach. On one hand, they seem to be focusing on more “surface” doctrines that can easily be digested, and more easily defended – things like “Paradise”, the “last days”, and so forth. On the other hand,when any “deeper” issues are discussed, it tends to be as skipped over as possible, with the organisation taking it for granted that the doctrine is sound. One result of the drift away from the “deeper” articles of the 50;s onwards is that it seems the younger generation of elders are not really au-fait with these, and so tend to view these discussions with some reserve.

This was certainly the case when I was around at Bethel – there was a deliberate and noticeable move away from “deeper” things. However, I would like to say that this was in one way false, since the “deeper things” were often Fred Franz inspired, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody in Writing was able to step up to that particular plate. It was not so much that they wanted to, it was that they had to. And now, that has become an ingrained habit.

PP

27

JWs District Convention 2010 Drawn Closer to Jehovah. My reflections

by onemore in

jw
friends

september will mark my first year out of the watch towers darkness (pun intended).

i embarked on my full blown search for truth about the truth in april 2009, and by september of that same year i was convinced the organization was no different than any other religion; but i was wrong again.

because if there were like any other christian denomination, such as the baptists, methodists, presbyterians, lutherans, etc...it would have been a lot easier to endure sitting in their meetings, listening to their rhetoric, and engaging in some of their activities.

Paulapollos

Onemore,

thank you for sharing this - I cannot believe the anachronism of bringing todays organisational methods back to the 1st century! It seems almost......well, without wanting to be uncharitable, it seems the organisation are hoping that the average Witness is so culturally illiterate, he will not realise this?! Very sad.

PP

9

the finished mystery and the DVD

by Paulapollos in

jw
friends

as i have been considering our modern-day history due to our new dvd, and the claims of alice and debator that jw's are god's organisation, it came to my attention that the food at the proper time that caused jesus to select us must, of necessity, contain much that is spiritually beneficial.

therefore, i thought it only proper to provide nourishing morsels of the spiritual feast provided by the lord's channel at the time of his inspection, which of course was primarily the 1917(?

) the finished mystery.

Paulapollos

Part 3

Getting to the Great Crowd, after the Finished Mystery tells us that the Great Crowd are a 2 nd heavenly class that have not proved faithful enough, we receive this gem: “ They shall NOT hunger [no more].—Poor things, how hungry they have been! How the light has shone to their poor, hunted, starved faces, as they have listened to Pastor Russell, by the tens of thousands; and yet, when the lecture was over, they have wearily gone back to the "husks," from a sense of duty to the memory of some man, dead for hundreds of years, who would, If alive today, be a follower of the Reformer, Charles T. Russell, because he followed Christ.” It heartened me to realise that Luther et al would have followed Russell.

I was delighted to learn that the angel of Revelation 8:3 was a direct prophecy of: “t he WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TBACT SOCIETY, which Pastor Russell formed to finish his work. This verse shows that, though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the Harvest work.” Indeed, the prayers of all the saints mentioned in Revelation 8: 4: “ The Society Is the only entity in the world answering to this description. It alone has offered on its behalf the prayers of all the saints, In harmony with the clause of the Vow which reads, "Dally will I remember at the Throne of heavenly grace the general interests of the Harvest work—the dear co-laborers at the Brooklyn Tabernacle and Bethel, and everywhere."

But there was more – because: “ 8:6. And the angel.—The WATCH TOWER SOCIETY through its proper representatives. Took the censer.—The Seventh Volume of STUDIES IN THE SCBIPTUBES, Divinely provided” and attacked Christendom with it! Further, the trumpet blasts were part of the Reformation! What divine truths, beautiful spiritual truths, at the proper time! Indeed, one effect of the trumpet blasts was: And they were cast upon the earth AND THE THIRD PART OF THE EARTH WAS BURNED UP.—Luther's teaching had the effect of transforming the order-loving German people Into anarchists.” Revelation 8:8 was the Anglican Church movement, the “boats” of Revelation 8:9 were the Lollards, and Revelation 8:10 was the Calvinistic movement! Quote: And there fell a great star from heaven.—John Calvin tore a large-sized hole In the Catholic firmament when he started the manufacture of a firmament of his own.” The Society continued: “ And many men died of the waters.—Lost their manhood, reason and common sense by becoming Calvlnists.” Revelation 8:12 was the Baptists, Revelation 9:1 was the Wesleyan movement.

But now we get to things that we may be more familiar with - the locusts of God's house, preaching the Kingdom, surely? Erm....": 9:3. And there came out of the smoke locusts: An Immense number of followers. ......And unto them was given power.—To attend an oldtime Methodist meeting and witness the "getting the power" was to see the sight of a life-time.” At this point, I was beginning to have some issues. The locusts were Methodists? Who would preach for 150 years, tormenting people with their message? And ruled over by Abbadon?!!

The explanations kept coming, as the sixth angel was: “ The Evangellcal-Alllance-Splrltlsm movement began In 1846-1848 culminating in the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ In America. ” It got even more surreal – the fiery horses were Protestantism, teaching hellfire, and of whom the number globally was prophesised by Revelation 9: 16. Apparently, talking about these horses, Christ led the slave to state: “ 9:19. For [their power] THE POWER OF THE HORSES Is In their mouth.—Assuredly, assuredly; it certainly is not in the Scriptures.”

Now I was confused, because the Revelation Book today applies all this to JW's, in a positive way, but back then, it's all.......well, negative judgement against the organisations' then enemies. It was at this point that a thought crept into my mind - could it be that the prophecies were just.....well, interpreted in a way that was convenient to the organisation at the time? The Finished Mystery did a job then – it was “plausible”.......and now......well, the Revelation Climax explanation was....”plausible”....But more disturbing – the Society have always defined the new light doctrine as “tacking” - refinements and adjustments. But the change between the Finished Mystery and the Revelation Climax book..........that's more like a paradigm shift, then any "tacking", or "minor adjustments."

PP

9

the finished mystery and the DVD

by Paulapollos in

jw
friends

as i have been considering our modern-day history due to our new dvd, and the claims of alice and debator that jw's are god's organisation, it came to my attention that the food at the proper time that caused jesus to select us must, of necessity, contain much that is spiritually beneficial.

therefore, i thought it only proper to provide nourishing morsels of the spiritual feast provided by the lord's channel at the time of his inspection, which of course was primarily the 1917(?

) the finished mystery.

Paulapollos

Chris,

you are absolutely right - neither one will explicilty state that - but Debator in particular has stated repeatedly that JW's are imperfect men who are being refined by God's spirit, shedding more light on the Bible, and are teaching the "truth" from the Bible - a way of stating that yes, they are God's organisation - without having to say so explicitly. Of course, I will be delighted to be proven wrong by debator.........

PP

9

the finished mystery and the DVD

by Paulapollos in

jw
friends

as i have been considering our modern-day history due to our new dvd, and the claims of alice and debator that jw's are god's organisation, it came to my attention that the food at the proper time that caused jesus to select us must, of necessity, contain much that is spiritually beneficial.

therefore, i thought it only proper to provide nourishing morsels of the spiritual feast provided by the lord's channel at the time of his inspection, which of course was primarily the 1917(?

) the finished mystery.

Paulapollos

Part 2

I have often thought that the Great Crowd was unnumbered. But I was wrong. For: “ The number of the Great Company -will apparently exceed'.one hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1 indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levi tes, which would make the number of the Great Company approximate 411,840,000.—T118, 119; Dan. 7:10.” I quickly put from my mind that apparently only 7m people are the “great crowd” today.......Much light was also shed on why there was a great crowd: “ The Great Company class humbly realize that' their faithfulness and zeal was not sufficient to warrant their own exaltation to power. They realize they did not lay up all the Heavenly treasures they might have done, but bid their talents in earthly pursuits.They realize their own unwisdom in seeking the praise of men and that the Christ Company, though apparently fools for Christ's sake, were really the wisest of the wise. They know that they used their own strength for the support and maintenance of Institutions which really hindered rather than helped the Bride to make herself ready. They know that, as a class, they sought and obtained the honor that cometh from men, but failed to properly seek the honor that cometh from God only. They know that they failed to meet the high conditions of self-sacrifice, and were therefore unworthy of the high reward.”

Then we got into more deep prophecy, upon which Christ had judged the Slave to be providing food at the right time. I learnt that the white horse of Revelation 6:2 was none other than: The doctrines, teachings of the Lord and the Apostles recognized as the one and only rule of faith and practice of God's Church.” It's rider was none other than: “ The Bishop of Rome, the embryo Pope, the personal representative of Satan.” Realising that later we would understand this was actually Jesus, I tried to put out of my mind any outrage Jesus may have felt in 1919 at being identified with Satan, and continued.....I learnt that the fiery coloured horse was: “ A creed-horse, quite different from the Scriptures which it misrepresented.” I learnt that the rider of the Horse, the Papacy: “ has a great and powerful sword, In opposition to the Sword of the Spirit, and it, too, comes out of Papacy's mouth.” Indeed, in battling these creeds, I learnt that “ The Lord (Joshua-Savior) has humbled them all by His own Sword of the Spirit In the hands of Pastor Russell.” The black horse? That was: “ Complete disregard of the Scriptures by clergy and people alike, and in their place the ugly creeds and bulls of popes and councils.” The pale horse? : “ The ghastly and horrible teachings that God's true people must be "exterminated." "The ghastly green of terror and of death. The word Is used of grass in Rev. 8:7; 9:4; Mark 6:39."—Cook. ” This was fulfilled partly in the Crusades, apparently.

I was heartened to learn that the Reformation was foretold, and it played a great part in the resurrection of the dead: “ Luther called the proclamation on the church door at Wittenberg Oct 31, 1517, which was already one month into the year 1518, Jewish reckoning. But It took some time for the news to travel to all parts of Europe. Three hundred and sixty years from the Spring of 1518 brings us to the Spring of 1S78, when we understand that God's promise made to the sleeping saints was fulfilled. They were raised from the dead, and Babylon was cast off.” Futhermore, Christ had told the slave to proclaim that in Revelation 6:12: “ And, [lo,] there was a great earthquake.— Literally, the great Lisbon earthquake, Nov. 1, 1755” As well as: “ And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair.— Literally in the dark day of May 19, 1780, which extended over 320,000 square miles.” “And the WHOLE moon became as blood.— Literally on May 19, 1780.” “ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth.— Literally, the meteoric shower of Nov. 13, 1833, covering11,000,000 square miles.” There were of course a number of symbolic fullfilments, all pertaining to the clergy and papacy. I was getting confused – I didn't realise that the clergy was so heavily featured in the Revelation.

Thankfully we went back to things I understood more fully. The four angels of Revelation 7:1 were: “ The Little Flock, commissioned to carry the message of Present Truth to the remotest outposts of civilization.” Sadly, this was interrupted by another eulogy of Pastor Russell: “ Pastor Russell was the voice used. Beautiful voice of the Lord: strong, humble, wise, loving, gentle, just, merciful, faithful, self-sacrificing; one of the noblest, grandest characters of all history” before we got back to the prophecy. I was warned that the demons would: “ Then brace yourself for the truth that It is evidently God's purpose soon to allow the minds of many of His little ones to become an open battle ground, upon which the fallen angels shall be judged, and the manner in which we meet the tests will prove our worthiness of crowns .” What form would this battle for minds take? Again, Christ's Channel warned us what we should expect: “ conceive of the Intensity of such struggles as Eph. 6:12 suggests. The base of the brain is seized as in a vise. Interpretations of Scripture, Ingenious, but misleading beyond description, are projected into the mind as water might be projected through a hose. Visions maybe tried, wonderful illuminations of the mind as by a soft but glorious greenish or yellowish haze. Seductive suggestions may be made, based on circumstances of the environment. Offers of inspiration may be made. The privilege of sleep may be taken away for days at a stretch. All this is with the object of forcing the unfortunate into at least temporary insanity so as to destroy his influence and, if possible, his faith In God. Falling in all other attempts, the mind may be flooded with thoughts that are vile beyond description. THEN REMEMBER THE VOW.” Wow. Demons will invade the minds of the annointed, and there will be a mental battle, a one-on-one?

But more: “ there is every reason to believe the fallen angels will Invade the minds of many of the Nominal Church people, driving them to exceedingly unwise conduct and leading to their destruction at the hands of the enraged masses, who will later be dragged to the same fate. The great war now raging is most certainly the work of evil spirits, and the Kaiser is not the only clever ruler who has been deceived by evil spirits, as history will sometime show.— Lu. 12:56

Amidst all of this talk of demon possession, I checked myself and remembered that Christ had judged the slave based on this food. I ploughed on, into this deep spiritual food, given at the proper time, attempting to ignore the statement I found on one page of this marvellous book: “ It seems almost incredible that any one seriously believed the following amazing statements”,

PP