Posts by Paulapollos

61

Have your faith been made stronger or made weaker since coming here?

by jam in

me personally, considerably weaker.

in fact i have.

become an agnostic.. since i discovered this site over 6-7 yrs, we have.

Have your faith been made stronger or made weaker since coming here?

by jam in

me personally, considerably weaker.

in fact i have.

become an agnostic.. since i discovered this site over 6-7 yrs, we have.

You said, "The realization that this is it, no flying around in heaven, no resurrection and seeing love ones from the past, no living forever in paradise. This life , that,s it. The predicament, trying hard to beleive again in order to have hope. This site open my eyes, and once you have seen it,s very hard to go back into the darkness. Faith just don,t do it for me."

Think about what you are saying, my friend. "The realization that this is it". Yes, this is it. This is what we have. This astonishing, miraculous planet, with its breathtaking variety of life. This globe, teeming with the consequences of billions of years of evolution. No directing force, no ultimate goal, except to survive and thrive - and yet, here you and I are, having a "conversation" about the "meaning" of life. Can you not see how breathtaking just those two concepts (self-awareness and exploration of meaning) actually are? Life survived at least five major extinctions in the history of our planet, and here you and I are, to have this conversation. What could be more mind-boggling than that?

"no flying around in heaven". Jam, we are flying in heaven. We are rapidly expanding our understanding of the cosmos. Every month, every day it seems, our greatest minds are making further progress on the nature and origin of the real heavens, with verifiable facts. We are learning at an exponential rate - despite what the naysayers say. From quantum physics to the philosophical questions of whether there are indeed really "laws" governing the Universe, we are exploring the objective measurable reality out there, and here on Earth. Jam, we arebecoming like the "gods" of old, except that we are real.

"no resurrection and seeing love[d] ones from the past". Now this, I understand. But I ask you Jam, what does this really say to us? Surely it is this - if we have loved and lost, then for God's sake, love those who are in your lifebefore they are snatched away. Love them fully, give them all you can. The brevity of our existence demands it. Related to that is "no living forever in paradise." You're right, unless longevity research takes a leap, you and I will not live forever. Nor will we see "paradise". So, surely, the answer is to make the best world you can now, for yourself, for those you love, and for others. We may not be able to create a paradise. But we can make the world a little fairer, a little more advanced, a little more open and understanding, a little more honest. We can do that for the people in our lives. That is real, that has meaning.

"trying hard to beleive again, in order to have hope." Jam, let me ask you something. Do you accept what many scientists say, that in around 4 billion years or so, the Sun will expand and consume Earth? By then, our species will have either died already, or will die, during the changing climatic conditions or various other factors. Unless we have, by then, gained the power to control the very solar system, or have migrated, intelligent life on this planet will END in 4 billion years.

Let me ask you - in view of that, does that make everything meaningless, hopeless? Does love, justice, kindness, friendship still matter? It is all going to be consumed. No-one will look back, and remember it. It will not last forever. It will vanish, like everything ultimately does. And yet, would you still help an african aids child, right now, if you could? Would you help feed a poor person, if you could? Would you help to discover a cure for cancer, if you could? Would you? Of course you would. Because things don't have to last forever to have meaning, to be important. Because you don't need fairytales to have hope. Because you don't need to live forever to make this world better. Because you don't need God to have meaning, my friend.

Look around you. What we have, imperfect as it is, horrible and unjust as it can be, is still astonishing. Appreciate reality, spend your life actually advancing our species to the best of your ability - that, my friend, actually means something, and is far more real than the invented fables of superstitious, power-hungry, misogynistic, totalitarian priests from 3000years ago. When you actually think about it, you're already halfway to freedom, Jam - you said it yourself. "Faith just don't do it for me." And that is the way it should be. You don't need faith. Just open your eyes and embrace reality, my friend. There is nothing to be scared of out here.

PP

31

How the Watchtower corporation really works (beginning to end)

by Terry in

jw
friends

in 1925, judge rutherford penned an article of extreme controversy titled the birth of the nation.. the editorial committee (russell had created) would not approve it.. .

ruthford moved swiftly to remove them!

he then hid his massacre cleverly:.

Paulapollos

Excellent post Terry. Your point about free labour is well-made. I often wonder if the WTBTS is even aware of the true nature of their organisation - in other words, is the corporatism of the Society simply an unintended outgrowth of American capitialism, the cultural milieu that the GB have grown up in - or was it a conscious choice?

I say this because, as has been said before, the organisation is a superb profit-making machine. Every single corporation would kill to have the type of bottom-line profit that the organisation has. Nominal "wage" costs, minimal maintenance of plant costs, favorable tax rates due to charity status, freedom from employment law in certain important jurisdictions - there is virtually no end to the superb conditions the WT "trades" in. I'm not sure if these developments were deliberate, in the sense that the WTBTS leaders set out to make financial gain - it would seem to me that the US constitution made religion free enterprise, and because religion is such an infective and persuasive idea, the conditions were ripe for cults like the WTBTS to simply take advantage.

PP

61

Have your faith been made stronger or made weaker since coming here?

by jam in

me personally, considerably weaker.

in fact i have.

become an agnostic.. since i discovered this site over 6-7 yrs, we have.

Paulapollos

My "faith" in the Bible, as inspired or even truthful, and in Jesus as the character(s) portayed therein, (not to mention the so-called "good news of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection" I used to accept so fervently) have been utterly and totally debunked. Once and for all. I have never, ever, felt so informed, so clear-headed, and thankful.

Sure, I sometimes think it was easier, more "simple" to live with blind certainties, however unverifiable. But then, I step back, and take a look at all the things I finally understand. I can't help but consider myself astonishingly fortunate to have escaped the shackles of "faith" with some intellect still functioning. The benefits, for me at least, have been frankly immeasurable.

Jam, what predicament are you in? Why does it keep you awake?

PP

269

The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

there have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.

i guess this will be another one.

there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.

Paulapollos

Awen,

what do you mean about "creationism"? I found your reply very interesting, but I was abit confused by that remark. You mentioned the importance of evidence, then creationism? What evidence is there for creationism, or intervention by God?

PP

20

Attention Governor Perry: Evolution is a fact - R. Dawkins

by unshackled in

jw
friends

the washington post published this richard dawkins response to perry's evolution is "just a theory" comment.

refers to him as an "uneducated ignoramus" and doesn't spare the republican party much either.... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/attention-governor-perry-evolution-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/giqauifuyj_blog.html.

q. texas governor and gop candidate rick perry, at a campaign event this week, told a boy that evolution is just a theory with gaps and that in texas they teach both creationism and evolution.

Paulapollos

Fantastic to see Dawkins weighing in here. It's not just about evolution. That is just a symptom. It's about having a person in the most powerful job in the world - who will not accept scientific facts, if it clashes with his own, unprovable, religious belief system. Even though, in a subject like medical treatment, the guy will accept whatever the scientists say.

Strikes me as very similiar to the Governing Body - who will accept proof from secular sources for 539BCE, then disregard that very same source when it comes to the 587/607 dispute.

PP

269

The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

there have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.

i guess this will be another one.

there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.

Paulapollos

AGuest,

I look forward to you pointing out these scriptures you mentioned. Very interesting. Just one thing I'd like to clarify - so what you are saying is Jesus is still communicating with you, and others today, in a literal way? And you get this communication how exactly?

My understanding was that Revelation was the end of the sacred writings, but I presume you are saying that the "spirit of the truth" guides you into all things, teaches you other things that are not in the Bible? Is this referenced anywhere in the Bible?

Again, genuine questions. I'm intrigued, and even slightly taken aback. :-)

PP

83

Common Misconceptions Re: Evolution

by cantleave in

this is another cut and paste, but i make no apology (unless it has been posted on here already), as it is very informative.

evolution is one of the best supported, most elegant, and most powerful theories in all of science.

as it stands, it is the best explanation that we have for the diversity of life on earth.

Paulapollos

PSac,

thanks for your reply. I have to say, the following really made me chuckle: "I think you are putting a spin on Genesis that you feel comfortbale with". I don't think I am.I am not at all comfortable with the idea that Genesis should be taken as the writers meaning it literally. But that doesn't mean they didn't intend it that way.

Let's just be honest here. The Augustine "principle" is just a get-out-of jail free card. Christians interpret the Bible as literal, until science or history show that actually, the events reported could never have happened that way, or did not. Then out comes the "it was never meant to be taken literally, it is SYMBOLIC" etc, and the justification is.........a man who realised that some of the Bible was already under attack scientifically, and that it simply couldn't be defended as literal, and in order to survive it must be "symbolic." Seriously, Augustine makes this point - and where is the evidence that the WRITERS of the text felt that way about what they had written? Nowhere.

Take the Adam and Eve story. Literal, or symbolic? According to Augustine, true. There was a real Adam and Eve. According to many Christians today, true. So.......now we have evolutionary scientists (not all, but a firm consensus) pointing to an "out-of-africa" hypothesis. Evidence, much of it credible, has been presented. And this evidence points to.....no Adam and Eve. No Middle Eastern garden. Just the gradual evolution of homo sapiens, then a migratory route out of Africa, after a severe climatic event, that led to the near-decimation of the species. So.....as the evidence mounts for that hypothesis, what of the Adam and Eve story? No longer literal? We now wheel out Augustine? And what of "original sin"? What of "the fall"? Jesus' sacrifice? Did the Bible writers suddenly never mean them to be taken literally?

I'm sure you seem what I'm getting at. It's all very........convienient. It doesn't really have any intellectual foundation. I would go so far as to say, it smacks of desperation. Beleive me, I would love to think that the writers of Genesis and so on never meant us to take their words literally. But there's very little evidence of that. And that isn't to my liking at all.

PP

83

Common Misconceptions Re: Evolution

by cantleave in

this is another cut and paste, but i make no apology (unless it has been posted on here already), as it is very informative.

evolution is one of the best supported, most elegant, and most powerful theories in all of science.

as it stands, it is the best explanation that we have for the diversity of life on earth.

Paulapollos

Psac,

Perhaps what I was trying to say wasn’t clear. I’m not asking you why God had to work within the Universe as it is, in order to create life. My understanding of your views is that you think God is all-powerful and wise? Yes?

So let me rephrase the question more clearly. Why would the all-powerful Creator choose to create a Universe where He would use evolution? Why would evolution be part of the design? Why? That is what I am asking you.

You see, if I hadn’t read your posts on other subjects, I would start to think that you are doing what other Christians do. They see the evidence that evolution is almost irrefutable. They recognise that this frankly undermines the entire Creation account. And so, in an act of intellectual desperation, they state that God used evolution. And they say this with no proof whatsoever. Unless you can show me, I understand that Genesis refers to creation of a man and woman, separately from the rest of the animal creation? No? What possible Biblical reference is there to the possibility of evolution?

They also refuse to answer the question – why would a loving God choose a form, a process of creation, that consigns 98% of species to extinction? Or is this God not that bothered about the rest of the animals? Do they not matter?

In short, it would have been far more sensible, if God existed, for him to create the Universe, and then the rest of the creation more directly, as Genesis states. It would “harmonise” with the “personality” of this God. And, I suspect, that’s what our Middle Eastern goat-herders thought. It makes sense. God created us. We are special. And they meant it to be taken literally.

PP

Terry – “what I disagreed with were my own misconceptions!” HAHAHA! Brilliant. Another gem, so true.

83

Common Misconceptions Re: Evolution

by cantleave in

this is another cut and paste, but i make no apology (unless it has been posted on here already), as it is very informative.

evolution is one of the best supported, most elegant, and most powerful theories in all of science.

as it stands, it is the best explanation that we have for the diversity of life on earth.

Paulapollos

Psac,

"Cruel? well...one would agrue that evolution is neither cruel or kind, it just is,".

Great point in my opinion. It does make me wonder, would a "moral" God care about our feelings about the process "He" used to get us here? But either way, you're right, this discussion is about the process of evolution, amoral and inhuman.

However, just a question. Why would God, who portrays himself as a loving Creator, choose to use evolution? Direct creation is a lot simpler, a lot more direct. Granted, it does not generate as much awe. But if that was the reason God used evolution, because it makes us more in awe of God....wow. What an ego-trip! (No offence intended, of course.)

PP