july 15, 2010 wt page 22, 23:.
would all anointed christians shine?.
in a sense, yes, for all christians would participate.
The really sad thing about this whole debacle is that the average JW has such a limited understanding of his own JW theology, so much so that he cannot even see how this slowly morphing teaching undermines so many planks of JW doctrine. What a shame.Still, it makes sense from the internal politics of the organisation - the Governing Body have to avoid being hoisted on their own petard.
PP
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i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.
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“What accusations do we have about JW's? “
I don't have any, MADJW – only observations, which I have formed only through personal experience with the people who guide some of the thinking of the theological side of Jehovah's Witnesses. Other posters have shown various problems with specific issues, so I will not repeat them, but I am sorry to say that Jehovah's Witnesses make great claim to be the very epitome of Biblical students, deeply knowledgeable and respectful of the Bible, and yet the facts remain:
The majority of “Biblical Scholarship” carried out by JW's and printed in the Watchtower is currently nothing more than rehashed versions of Matthew Henry, William Barclay, and edited selections from the early Church Fathers, and selected Protestant reformers. The Judaizing element of the Writing Committee and their complete refusal to face certain basic facts about 1 st Century Christianity has coloured the interpretation of Biblical passages, and the deeply flawed hermenutical framwork of Jehovah's Witnesses is absolutely clear for anyone to see. These deeply flawed systems are repeatedly foisted onto JW's in the form of differing doctrines that affect Biblical interpretation, rather than the other way round.
The claim that Jehovah's Witnesses “teach what the Bible teaches” is simply untrue – no religion, as far as I know, teaches that every letter, gospel and prophecy should be read in it's literary, historical, socio-cultural and religious context, that each argument in the letter should be understood in connection to it's antecedents, and with a close understanding of the impact in the listeners mind, a la relevance theory. Jehovah's Witnesses are particularly bad at this. As is typical of post-Reformation sects, “proof-texting” does not provide an argument with any sound underpinnings – that requires an understanding of the nuances of the text, something spectacularly lacking within the Writing Department. Jehovah's Witnesses teach what they feel God should be like, and look for proof from the Bible, just like every other sect, and religion, and just about all of us. In the case of the Watchtower, Jehovah seems to have decided that 1951 was the ideal year in terms of dress and grooming and entertainment and so on and so forth.
The idea that Jehovah's Witnesses are a special prophetic group is yet another twisted application of scripture, rooted in the American exceptionalism of the 18 th and 19 th centuries, as well as the “Great Awakening” and the 2 great American Religious Revivals. Using the Bible to “prove” that the events of 1919 that happened to JW's were foretold is not hard – because every group can do something similar. I am now confident that I can prove that in Revelation it was foretold that I would have 2 cups of tea this morning. Anyone can go around proving prophecy – because that is the problem. This ridiculous focus on prophecy, when as far as I can see, the focus of the Bible is a character called Jesus, and union with him, in spirit, with all that that entails, not that Jehovah's Witnesses know that either. Jehovah's Witnesses are obsessed with God intervening in historical events in the twentieth century, because they are faithless. They demand God was acting in history to “prove” they are his people, seeking to dictate to God what he “must”, “reasonably”, “evidently” was doing for them. They are just like the Israelites, demanding he act and seeking to regulate his behaviour according to what they desire – “Give us a sign Lord, give us a sign, because otherwise, we might just not believe in you (as if God will suddenly have a heart attack, or wipe everybody out because nobody believes in him – I don't see too many suddenly dying atheists and agnostics around, do you? Somehow, I'm not convinced that if God is God, he is as insecure as the leadership the WT portray him to be) Oh, and while you're there God, can you tell us more about the lions and tigers and dolphins and gigantic houses and luxurious yachts in the New System? After all, we've been working hard, and we want to know – do pioneers get bigger lounges and a conservatory on the back of the house?” A complete joke.
Forgive me if my tone comes across as annoyed, but this has been building up, and I am annoyed with the arguments presented by “themadjw”, and the various JW apologists around. Please don't take that as a personal insult, MADJW, it is most certainly not – I don't know you, and I have absolutely no issue with you as a person, but I cannot pretend that your arguments don't seem to be superfluous to me, along with the constant misquotes of scripture, completely out of context, as practised so skilfully be JW in general. It must be me, I must not have the intellectual rigour to comprehend the deep and convincing arguments being demonstratied. Or maybe it is that my heart is not in the right condition? How sad, I wish I could find the scriptural teachings that discusses that particular theological idea, taught by Jesus and the prophets. And no, the soil parable is not applicable, nor is the “ones drawn to me”, because they are discussing other issues. And if Paul is mis-quoted one more time, regarding the “wisdom of the world”, I will scream. For the last time, can we have some intellectual honesty here – he was talking about the idea that more sophisticated reason was required to accept Christ, and that the Christian message must be more than simply Christ impaled, and the glory of his death, burial and resurrection. He was not talking about “intellectuals” being unable to understand the Bible, because they don't have the right heart condition. End of.
I simply cannot understand how the above facts, related to all the very important specifics so ably discussed by the posters on this forum, don't weigh on the mind of the upper echelons of God's Own People ™, or are ignored by the rank and file, which I presume MADJW to be, although if I am wrong and he is actually a member of the Writing Department, I apologise. Is it me, or is there a spectacular failing of intellect and wit on the part of these people? Alas, I remember this is exactly why I normally nod and smile, and agree when JW apologists spout these tired old arguments again and again – they are not actually interested in discussion, they just need to reinforce the persecution complex, and reaffirm the chosen people belief, whilst rejoicing in their status as God's Own People.
PP
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if you're an ex-atheist, what changed your mind?.
please be as brief or comprehensive as you'd like.
Hi,
This thread really piqued my interest, since I used to have very athestic and evolutionist tendencies. However, I changed because I personally felt that I was not convinced of the evidence of the mechanism of neo-darwinian evolution, the more I subjected it to scrutiny. The more I have investigated it, the more convinced I have become that it is not a viable theory, but of course that is only my opinion. Still, thankfully I have the freedom to make that choice. I also feel now that, philosophically speaking, God's existence is something that I have far more conviction in - I simply do not feel that post-modernism, and to some extent, the Enlightenment, is based on as intellectually-sound footings as I originally thought. I am more convinced as to the existence of God now than I have ever been
PP
i am noticing a difference..... "raised in's" seem to be a little more relaxed and better suited for their world after the kh.
"converts" seem to be a little disoriented.
maybe b/c they saw the truth as away out of this crazy world only to be massive dissapointed.
I converted, and I think what appealed to me was the "did you know all the events you see today are foretold as occuring?" I was also an atheist and an ardent believer in an evolutionary explanation of life, but I can honestly say that the Witnesses presentation of how many prophecies they had "got right", and looking at the "track record" of the organisation convinced me that God was indeed using them.I wasn't aware then that there were different "track records", depending where you looked.
At the risk of repeating ad nauseam what has been said, I think it must be so hard for born-in's since many may not know anything else. And for converts, who now have to "go back", to the "wicked world" after thinking they had found the "answer".......well.
What a damaging religion.
PP
a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
Podobear
I will PM you my thoughts on all the scriptural matters you raised
Love
PP
a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
Hi Freddo,
it is "business as usual", except that there is a closer watch on any signs of deviation from the published interpretations of Biblical topics.
Podobear, some of your points were very interesting - some of them were views held by the d'fd 4.
PP
hello i wonder if anyone has the watchtower, 1957 in electronic format.
JuanCarlos,
I have it if you want it. You will have to give me technical details on how to send it to you.
PP
a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
Hi TE,
i have sent you a pm
love
pp
at a recent series of circuit assemblies, the governing body put out warnings on what in their view is the latest danger from satan, designed to break the faith of jehovah's witnesses everywhere.. facebook.. yes, thats right, apparantly, the gb is concerned because a lot of people are having "facebook sex".
they are meeting old friends who aren't jehovah's witnesses and getting it on with whomever would willingly sleep with them.
evidentally, the gb would like their flock to believe that when jw's get on facebook and other social networking sites, fornication happens.. now, this is news.
Magwitch said
What is so sad is that so many witnesses believe that turning on the internet is tantamount with porn and masturbation. I have had my old JW parents remark many times "There is nothing good on the internet, it is nothing but Satan's trap". How the hell would they know? They have never had a computer in their whole senile life. However, now they are experts on the subject because they heard it from the platform.
This made me laugh so much!
Love
PP
a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
Jookbeard,
I have just re-read my post, and realised it might sound a little short - apologies, it wasn't meant like that at all my friend.
Love to you and yours
PP
