Posts by Butterflyleia85

79

A Question Ex-Jws and Atheist On This Site

by Blue Grass in

i have a question for the regulars on this site which are mainly ex-jws and atheist.

my first question is just for the atheist.

why do you guys spend so much time discussing and researching a book you believe to be fiction?

Butterflyleia85

I joined this a wk ago and OMG have I changed in mood!! This guys on here are my heros in a sense!!! Haha Thanks for all you guy's topics on JW! I felt alone til now... Now it's so cool to figure out with a group of ppl's opinion what's best for my stand on JW... The fear is gone now in speaking my mind and in doing research!!

46

Do mixed marriages work? What about kids?

by greenie in

i'm new and have posted something along these lines recently on another thread, but i'm wondering, do marriages between non-jws and jws work?

by "work" i mean can they be loving and happy?

and what about kids?

Butterflyleia85

My mom is a JW and my stepdad non witness- it was hard

It will confuse the kid because being a JW is a serious matter, standards, and commitment. I would advise to learn about it so that you and your bf can compromise on deciding what is best for the child and respect your bf beleifs, vica versa.

I am going to be going through the same thing. My fiance and I are living together and he isn't in the religion but tecnicly neither am I. I'm DF but thinking bout going back in... It will be hard. We are wanting to have kids in the future but I wonder too how it will work. All I know is to make sure you remember who you fell in love with and let that be your strangth! I also remind myself of what my mom went through and hope that maybe before my fiance and i have kids we can work something out!

11

where do you draw the line ?

by lancelink in

jw
friends

last night i was talking to my son (24 years old) and he was telling me about his life growing up as a jw, .

very frustrating for him, he couldn't have friends from school over, no joining clubs, sports, etc - etc.. but a very interesting point was made, and i never thought about it and it has been rolling around all day.

as morphius said.

Butterflyleia85

Wow that is a good one! ha I have to say that would go along with not celebrating b-days after OUTLAWS comment.

But another thing to think about I saw on news that research has found on tanning to be just as bad as smoking! So now are JW going to have to stop tanning too? lol I guess it is all a conscience matter... I would like to write the society on all of this!!! I wonder if they consider looking at this message boards to get a good Idea for their next KM articles. :) (sigh... "please no more restictions please" *to the society)

41

So confused

by greenie in

jw
friends

so i've been reading this board for a while but never posted.

so, go easy on me!

i have a lot of thoughts, but they're not going to be totally clear.. my story: i was dating a guy, not long, but totally fell in love with him.

Butterflyleia85

Over all the negitive on here look at the positive... he prob has a really good heart. He will prob be a good dad as well. For the child, you should do deep research about the religion, I would suggest going to Jehovah's Witness official website to look at their bighter side!! And just from experience of the consiquences of wrong doing as a Jehovah's Witness, I would suggest for him not to get baptised in the religion until you fully understand the commitment. (I'm sure he does) But yeah my cousin is going through the same thing!! They have a son and I wonder if he will be raised as a witness, I dont think his mom wants him to, just as you mentioned you don't want your child to be raised as one.

As far as congregations yeah I totally understand what you are saying. Not everyone in the halls are the same and they each have their own opinion with what is right or wrong in minor situations but the basic foundation of the beliefs are the same. I would consider studying with one of them and ask questions!

Congragulations on your baby!

45

Talking points for reasoning with JWs

by bluecanary in

i've emailed this to several people now so figured i might as well post it and share with all.

the following information has been compiled from various sources on the web, including jwfacts.com and free minds.

a fraction of it is from my own mind.

Butterflyleia85

"The Watchtower Society has admitted to making numerous mistakes. Why is that disagreeing with doctrines that may turn out to be mistakes, is considered apostasy? If someone is disfellowshipped for disagreeing with a doctrine that the Watchtower Society later abandons, is that person automatically forgiven? Who is accountable for the propagation of false teachings?"

That is very important might I add!

45

Talking points for reasoning with JWs

by bluecanary in

i've emailed this to several people now so figured i might as well post it and share with all.

the following information has been compiled from various sources on the web, including jwfacts.com and free minds.

a fraction of it is from my own mind.

Butterflyleia85

Ok wow guess it helps to read the rest of the material. It was very interesting and true... I would have like to see you and one of the 'strong brothers in the organization "battle it out" sota speak.

6

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 24 August 2009

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

*** lv chap.

9 pp.

97-109 "flee from fornication" ***.

Butterflyleia85

"A researcher likens sex addiction to cancer..." Which researcher and where - how are we sure the WTS has not quoted him out of context?

So so true they always do this in publications. It really gets on my nerves they quote or say certain things without detailed source information!!!

45

Talking points for reasoning with JWs

by bluecanary in

i've emailed this to several people now so figured i might as well post it and share with all.

the following information has been compiled from various sources on the web, including jwfacts.com and free minds.

a fraction of it is from my own mind.

Butterflyleia85

Ok so hear is my understanding from what I was taught as a JW. I do add I put my own opinion in some statements.

Is it acceptable to question what the Watchtower Society teaches?

-Yes they say to question, learn, and develop in understanding as well as adding straight to your faith.

When Jesus inspected the Watchtower Society in 1919, what did he find?

-He wasn't around in 1919. Holy Spirit was.

Do Witness teachings come from the Bible or from the Watchtower Society?

-They go hand in hand but after observing comments on here sounds like reading the Bible through and through is truly what I need to do before I say much.

Why does a religion claiming to be the only group to have truth revealed to them by Jehovah require ongoing changes in doctrine? Does truth change?

-Progressing... they use that term to explain why their is a need in looking at certain situations.

Is the Watchtower Society inspired by God's holy spirit?

-Through the "Faithful and discreet Slave" Class.

Does the Watchtower Society encourage people to read the Bible?

-Yes all the time. I never done it cause it takes alot of patients reading historical stories, but they do that all the time every meeting and especially when they try to incourage you to get baptized.

Does the Bible really support the teaching that God disapproves of blood transfusions?

-It does but I personally think it is how you interpret the scriptures.

Is the Watchtower Society's practice of disfellowshipping consistent with the Bible?

-It's hard to say. I think there is different circumstances in which they need to consider... age, eduation, history, background, etc. just talking with that person is hard to reach a conclusion. You have to consider also the truma- emotional outbust can effect how they should rationalize on their circumstances.

-So with that the bible does say

'Expel the wicked man from among you.' (1 Corinthians 5:1, 5, 12, 13) but I think they need to also think about Matt 18:12-14; 2 Cor. 2:6-8 more.

Should a minor child be allowed to make a baptismal vow?

-They don't have any old child make a baptismal vow. But I do think they need to consider more the experience younger ones have. It's a chance that the child makes when committing to something and preach what they have never experianced. It just ignorance.

Is belonging to an Organization a requirement for salvation?

-Organization means 'group of persons organized for some end or work' (dictionary.com) and keep in mind in order to have a body of people... recieve donations, have input on government standings, and reach out to a wide nation of people... it makes sence to have a Organization.

Who is your mediator?

-Mediator is 'a person who mediates, esp. between parties at variance.' (dictionary.com) I my research Jesus should be as far as spiritually speaking goes. (Heb 9:14, 15) but then for the "anointed brothers" consider (1 Ti 6:15, 16) and also consider God using Moses too. (Galatians 3:19, 20)

22

Is there encouragement and hope for the disfellowshipped?

by Butterflyleia85 in

i am 24 years old i was disfellowshipped at 21 and reinstated last year january then committed a sin and disfellowshipped again five months later.. i don't think i realized what i got into.

i tried hard to fend for myself and get back in, the pressure got to me and i fell out again.

but since i understood what it entailed i fought hard to stay in.

Butterflyleia85

Elders words I will never forget and have a hard time agreeing with...

I can't see how someone can say they want to help you and then turn their back on you.

Their suggestions were:

"Go to a councilor, you will get depressed and I suggest a councilor" after telling me I have been disfellowshiped (the first time).

"We need to protect the congregation" but what about the sheep that wondered off and needs incouragement while I was in. This statement was made when I get disfellowshipped (the second time).

Oh and as I and my elders are standing outside the meeting waiting on the second dicision by the second group of elders... one tells me "I'm sorry we did all we could to help you ... this is all we can do for you" (geez it felt like they were giving up on me)

Honestly I feel the Elders don't want me back. I would love to but how can I. I spent over a year going to all the meetings and three letters the first time getting back in how long will it be the second.

I don't agree with disfellowshipment as a way to help turn a person but push them to suicide or self abuse or rage. I seen it and it's sad.

I don't understand why it was so wrong to have wonderful and good people as friends out side of being a JW. (Still after JW statements on association.) My fiance who is not in any religion is the only one who brought me out of my self misery. (I meet less then a year) That's sad someone who bearly knows me loves and cares for me and Elders and JW Friends who judge and are held back after a life time of being so close.

Elders are not be hide close doors how do they have the right to judge accurately. I know judging is good to a point. I don't hang out with drug addictics or murders or abusers. But after I was disfellowshiped they ask you if you are associating with anyone.

I can't live as a hermit!!

I just think there has to be a better way of going about wrong doers that asked for forgiveness, repented and remorsed over their wrong doing... and above all want and need true guidence by God.

Thanks for you guys input and suggestions. I will read each one carefully and take time in understand the best motive with the Bible and Prayer.

22

Is there encouragement and hope for the disfellowshipped?

by Butterflyleia85 in

i am 24 years old i was disfellowshipped at 21 and reinstated last year january then committed a sin and disfellowshipped again five months later.. i don't think i realized what i got into.

i tried hard to fend for myself and get back in, the pressure got to me and i fell out again.

but since i understood what it entailed i fought hard to stay in.

Butterflyleia85

I am 24 years old I was disfellowshipped at 21 and reinstated last year January then committed a sin and disfellowshipped again five months later.

I don't think I realized what I got into. I tried hard to fend for myself and get back in, the pressure got to me and I fell out again. But since I understood what it entailed I fought hard to stay in. I appealed the elders decision and I lost.

It's so frustrating to know that you want the truth, you want whats right, and you want your family and friends but you can't have it, because you were young naive and curious.

I have been out of the truth and in. It's true there is evil in both places. But it's the people not the Organization, the Organization is made for a perfect world, a perfect family, a perfect life with strict laws and restrictions to keep them in that perfection. Well sorry the people are not perfectly in same mind, same family conditions, same circumstances. Everyone of the members have their own opinions and personalities so it frustrating to see the printed pages in the publications be so firm and set on a certain n topic then hear elders give their speeches and then hear others state their opinions, experiences, etc. I'm so confused about what really is a right motive to go about being disfellowshiped and have respect as well as give respect.

So what about disfellowshipment? This is a serious matter to me it's effecting everything my relationship with God, my name, my family, and my friends.

How should I treat my family without feeling like I am being a bad influence or drawing them away from God?

How should I deal with being disfellowshipped?

How should I go about approaching the elders about matters good or bad while being disfellowshiped?

When I first got DF (disfellowship) I didn't understand writing a letter, appealing, etc.

I wanted to fight but I didn't understand how too.

I didn't understand the seriousness of it. I figured it was like a counsel room or a setting like when you discuss matters with your parents.

Then say I'm ready to get in, I list my needs of improvement. But what's next?

Some of my DF friends have recorded in their calender book days they go to meetings and then show it to elders when they hold a meeting to get reinstated. After a long time attending the meetings the elders may over look you have attended that day especially as months go by it's nice to have prove you been there.

So I know this that going to the meets is suppose to be a means of incouragement but seriously it's so hard and hummiliating.

How do you get motivated and how do you feel you have God's back when there is no one on one person to person incouragement?

If God gives you holy spirit and takes it away when do you know you have it or if you will beable to get it at all being DFed?

So seriously I now know I'm not doomed to die, my life did not end, so I know now I don't have to live life to an extreme, but now what?

I still want and do crave spiritual food. I don't want to be pulled into any other religion and I don't want to hear something that is "tickling my ears".

Any suggestions.