Butterflyleia85

Joined

• started 97 topics
• posted 1,062 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Butterflyleia85

• 
  81

  An Elder wrote anomously...

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

  theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

  that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  And to add maybe it was a joke to spell like crap to distinguish that I was kinda like one of the exJW with bad spelling. lol For those observant and catches on with my lil humor! lol
• 
  81

  An Elder wrote anomously...

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

  theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

  that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  lol yeah me as butterflyleia spells like crap!!
• 
  81

  An Elder wrote anomously...

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

  theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

  that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  You guys are so gullible! To funny... I only spoke to one person on this board in person... cause of fear of creepy stockers and such, I tried to watch what I say like where I'm from, names, and such. That person knows I'm a girl.
• 
  81

  An Elder wrote anomously...

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

  theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

  that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  OMG no no no I'm not an Elder. I'm a 24 year old girl trying to figure out the 'truth'. I wish I did this when I was in the JW organization. But was to afraid.
• 
  81

  An Elder wrote anomously...

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

  theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

  that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  I realize as an elder that I am speaking out against the very organization I try to faithfully represent, but I personally think that the Governing Body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the Watchtower publications, should be considered to be “the truth.” They’ve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of Biblical truths subject to disciplinary action – often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.
  
  That is why I feel that I must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous. I don’t feel that addressing problems within the organization should be punished as long as it is done with good intent and an honest heart, but that is the way things are at this time. Until Jehovah changes the hearts and understanding of the Governing Body through his Holy Spirit and love for his Witnesses on Earth, I don’t want my family to suffer because I want to speak out. I’m not ready for that. I’m not sure I will ever be prepared to leave the Truth.
  
  To be a faithful Witness of Jehovah, according to the Governing Body, you must accept what they teach without question and without debate. I personally know of several excellent and otherwise faithful brothers and sisters who have left the organization or have been disfellowshipped because they honestly questioned just a few details of the Watchtower’s doctrinal teachings.
  
  I personally disagree with several current teachings of the Watchtower. My firm belief is that while we are trying to spread the good news of Jehovah’s Kingdom and trying to live an exemplary Christian lifestyle, not everything in the Watchtower is totally correct. My choice, at least at this time, is to keep my opinions to myself when in the presence of other Jehovah’s Witnesses and hope that the Holy Spirit clears up what errors we might be teaching as younger, more thoughtful, and loving men take the leadership of Jehovah’s earthly organization. That said, I do have some serious issues with the credibility of the current leadership of the Watchtower Society.
  
  The Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom book describes the process of gaining full understanding of the truth as entering a dark room and allowing the light to shine brighter gradually until the room is fully lit. At the same time they wrote, “…Truth remains truth. Jehovah’s will and purpose, as outlined in the Bible, remain fixed…But their [the WT organization’s] understanding of these truths gets progressively clearer ‘at the proper time,’ Jehovah’s due time.”
  
  It makes no sense that honest debate about the truth of certain beliefs can be treated as a sin against the Holy Spirit, while the final version of the “truth” is still being fine tuned. After all, the Governing Body VOTES on what new teachings will be published or presented at our assemblies. Does that mean that their debates and votes are also a sin against the Holy Spirit? If the Governing Body is acting under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, shouldn’t all their votes be unanimous? Are those who voted against the majority being influenced by Satan? After the vote is taken, why should that particular teaching ever be changed due to “new light”? Does not the Holy Spirit know what is true and what is not? Or does the Holy Spirit inspire the Governing Body to purposely publish incorrect information from time to time – just to keep us off-kilter? This entire concept of the Governing Body being guided by Holy Spirit is frankly ridiculous and inconceivable.
  
  I feel that the Watchtower Society is totally wrong by holding this unsupported position. After all, very few of the teachings of Russell and Rutherford are still held to be “truth.” Where was the Holy Spirit prior to Rutherford’s death in 1942, back when almost every Witness was considered to be a member of the Anointed remnant? Who was guiding the leadership of the Watchtower Society back then?
  
  I feel that the only honest position to be taken is that the Watchtower Society is still, like the rest of us, studying the Bible and trying to find the real truth of God’s Word. Until that is finally achieved, if that should ever come to pass, honest debate and personal study of the Bible should be encouraged – not treated as an act that deserves punishment and banishment from the rest of Jehovah’s people.
  
  Support of Watchtower teachings by current Jehovah’s Witnesses
  
  As I read the comments sections on this and other so-called “apostate” websites, I see many responses that have been submitted by those who are studying or consider themselves to be faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses. My comment to them is that they may be doing more harm than good in the way they respond. Let me explain:
  
  Learn how to write! How can you support the Watchtower’s position that getting a higher education is a waste of time – time better spent in Kingdom service – if you can’t spell, punctuate, and develop a well-considered thought? For Jehovah’s sake – learn how to use your spell-checker. Even Yahoo and Google mail have built in spell checkers. Before you submit your comment, write it in a word processor or as a draft email – then spell-check and grammar check it. Your comments do not have to be perfect, but writing like an ignorant 8-year old hillbilly is not giving Jehovah the good representation he deserves. (If you are either an 8-year old or a hillbilly, please accept my apology.)
  
  Many Witnesses will deny the facts of a story that’s been printed and then make statements that details presented were untrue or that the article writer was lying. Take funerals for example: There have been many descriptions of Witness funerals on this website and others, especially connected to the Michael Jackson stories. I have to be honest with you – they quite accurately describe what happens at a JW funeral. The writer on this website even provided a link to a funeral talk outline as supporting documentation. His descriptions, I’m sorry to say, were right on the mark.
  
  I’ve given funeral talks and have used an outline that is very close to the one shown on the link. I’ve counseled families before the talk began to please control themselves and to hold their emotions until a more appropriate time, preferrably in the privacy of their own home. If there were ushers assigned, they were told to politely hush or escort out anyone who might seem to lose control and cause a disturbance.
  
  Most accurately described was the fact that the speaker is very restricted as to how much he can say about the deceased. If the family insists, then we ask that they hold any additional memorial presentations until after the talk is over and the mourners have been excused. We suggest that they handle those remembrances at the reception, or in their own home later, but not during the funeral program.
  
  The family will often ask to play a favorite song of the deceased before or after the talk. If it is from the Kingdom Song Book, then we could allow it to be played. If it was a secular song or instrumental then I was supposed to deny their request. What possible harm to anyone could result from the playing of a beautiful secular classical piece or movie theme music? When the son of a deceased elder, a professional musician, asked to play a song of his own for his father’s funeral – his request was denied. I feel the Watchtower Society does its members a severe disservice by not allowing a faithful Witness to be properly remembered and mourned.
  
  For a Witness to access this, or any other website, and then try to deny the truth of what really happens during a Witness funeral, a Watchtower study, an assembly or convention, or even what we really do during field service – is in itself promoting a lie. What happens when new people actually do come to the Kingdom Hall or go to a Witness funeral and realize that what was written on an “apostate” website was really the truth – and that the comments by Jehovah’s Witnesses were lies?
  
  What about the question of “shunning?” As Jehovah’s Witnesses we all know what the Society’s rules are about the treatment of disfellowshipped and disassociated former members. To get on one of these websites and then deny that we shun anyone, especially family, is clearly misstating the facts. When is the purposeful misstating of facts not a lie?
  
  What about the facts surrounding the failed prophecy of 1975? To say that the Watchtower “never said that Armageddon was going to come in 1975” is also a dishonest and misleading statement. There is printed proof, YouTube videos, and published articles in major newspapers and the Society’s own publications that prove that 1975 was the central theme of nearly every book, magazine and public talk from 1968 to 1975. I was very active at that time and I know the truth. What do you gain by denying it and saying that it never happened?
  
  So be honest with yourself. Are you really doing the right thing by denying the truth? What impression does that leave with those who are on the fence about joining us in preaching the good news? Is it not better to remain silent than to deny the truth? Does Jehovah really need or want you to lie to protect his earthly organization? Can we not admit the truth of our past mistakes and just move on?
  
  Critics of the Watchtower – Are you being honest about your motives?
  
  At one time or another I’ve probably seen most of the so-called “apostate” websites. I have to say that by far the majority of them are junk – poorly written, angry, and ridiculous. Many websites are poorly laid out, hard to read, and out-of-date. Ever try to read a sentence in 10-point type that goes clear across the entire page on a wide-screen monitor? Many ex-Witnesses apparently felt the need to get online and publish their angry tirades in an attempt to hurt the Watchtower and make Jehovah’s Witnesses look like fools. After a while they lost interest and never updated or modernized their websites. My suggestion to those persons is to just take them down – they are only detracting from your message and hurting the reputations of other serious and well-designed critical websites.
  
  Likewise, I have to admit that there are many nicely presented and well written websites. Besides presenting their arguments in well-written formats and in clear language, several of them contain a lot of good documentation that is no longer available from any other source – some even acceptable for use by active Jehovah’s Witnesses – such as old Watchtowers and the early writings of Pastor Russell. I’ve seen some very impressive apostate videos showing up on YouTube that have professional graphics and narration that are comparable to the productions of major TV and online news outlets.
  
  Unfortunately, too many of the apostate sites have been set up to promote and support the teachings of some other religious organization, church or personal ministry. I’ve seen several that are clearly evangelical or mainstream Protestant in tone and in teachings. Believe me when I say there are enough negatives about the Watchtower Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses to be discussed on your website without trying to convince your readers to once again believe in the doctrines of The Trinity, Heaven and Hell, or some other fable of Christendom. I’m sorry, but you are wasting your time and your website won’t draw any real interest from Jehovah’s Witnesses if you attack their core beliefs while supporting the archaic and rehashed orthodox teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and major Protestant denominations.
  
  I suggest that if you want to run a successful anti-Watchtower website you use the examples of this one (www.Ex-JW.com) or Randall Watters’ www.FreeMinds.org . Concentrate your fair and truthful arguments against the history, culture and teachings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses on one website. Then link to a different website where you can present your own personal religious beliefs – whatever they might be. Keep your websites focused on their main purpose and leave the doctrinal debates to another time and another website.
  
  Advice to Bloggers and Apostate website editors
  
  To the critics and apostates who create and publish blogs and websites, I offer the following advice with all seriousness:
  
  Stop being stupid and amateurish; unless you are a professional comedian, you are not funny. Stay away from satire or parody if you don’t understand how to present them properly. Don’t create videos or write on your blog after you’ve just finished off a six-pack or a joint. Get rid of the stupid baseball cap and shave if you are going to appear in your own videos. Speak and write clearly in acceptable English; lose the slang and profanity. You do not help your cause by becoming a stumbling block to the very people you are trying to reach because of your obnoxious use of language and bad behavior.
  
  
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  That’s all I have to say for now. I thank the editor of Ex-JW.com for allowing me to present my arguments even though he and I hold very different opinions about the Truth as preached by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Maybe someday I’ll even send him another article.
  
  Editor’s Note: This article was originally sent to me by email. The writer wasn’t sure if this should be a comment to an existing article or sent separately. I asked his permission to publish it as a contibuted article. He agreed as long as he could disguise his identity a bit to avoid any problems for him and his family since he is currently an elder in his congregation. He allowed me to edit the article for readability and organization, but the words and thoughts are all his. I think his presentation is fair-minded and balanced and might represent the thinking of many active Jehovah’s Witnesses. I invite other Witnesses that would like to contribute their personal stories or opinions to submit them to me. Please contact me by email or through the use of the contact form located elsewhere on this website.
  http://ex-jw.com/elder-shares-honest-opinions (I enjoyed this topic... what's ur comment on this?)
• 
  63

  Jehovah Witnesses are NOT a bad Cult but man made type spiritual guide

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a jehovah's witness i remember these debates being mentioned about the raps of innocent children that elders commented, the blacks and whites segregation, the crosses and christmas tree in the bethal, etc.

  jehovah's witnesses have always been harassed for these things.

  with the changing world and knowledge of the scriptures they work hard to try to work towards accurateness.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  Outlaw you crack me up I seriously always joked about that too. Actually alot of stuff I recall thinking bout but didn't give much thought to in a sense have been showing up on this board alot. Where I'm like yeah I remember asking that... then when I asked it a JW friend or elder would make a short sweet answer back and then I went on with my daily thing. It's weird how important it really maybe...
• 
  63

  Jehovah Witnesses are NOT a bad Cult but man made type spiritual guide

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a jehovah's witness i remember these debates being mentioned about the raps of innocent children that elders commented, the blacks and whites segregation, the crosses and christmas tree in the bethal, etc.

  jehovah's witnesses have always been harassed for these things.

  with the changing world and knowledge of the scriptures they work hard to try to work towards accurateness.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  I was born in the Religion. My grandpa was an elder and kinda took over being a father figure. my mom has battles so that kinda I think influenced my laid back view. but now I may have a family soon and i think about the struggles on how to raise a kid... what will I raise them as a Jehovah's Witness, a Christian from Church of God, nuetrual, or what? So to clear my thinking and go in a straight path i kinda need to know it's safe before exposing it to someone else... even maybe to my fiance. He looks over my shoulder from time to time and sees more the negitive now then the good by JW. It's kinda making me want to go back to the Kingdom Hall so I recall points and scriptures. Yeah I admit I'm kinda lazy when it comes to reading the Bible fully and really i just want what's best.
• 
  10

  The Moral Life

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "the moral life a thematically arranged anthology of philosophical readings, contains an unusually wide range of topics including religion, sexual relations, capital punishment, and genectic engineering.

  steve luper and curtis brown have expanded the readings for the second edition to include full introductory chapter on ethical theory and a new chapter on terrorism.

  new selections throughout the text include writing from confucius, hinayana and mahayana scriptures, walter block, and michael walzer.. the moral life features wide coverage of many topics; chapter introductions that describe the readings and place them in a rhetorical framework, a good balance of opposing points of view and end of chapter questions.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  A book my mother-in-law suggested... (I'm trying not to take it offencively but I feel like backing the JW; Geez the place I want to get out of is the place I'm trying to STILL pull people into!!)

  Fast Facts on False Teachings by Ron Carlson and Ed Decker...

  World-renowned cult expert Ron Carlson and Ed Decker combine their extensive knowledge to give readers quick, clear facts on the major cults and false teachings of today. Short, informative chapters contrast the cults' theologies with the truth found in God's Word. This book is an easy-to-use resource that provides powerful insights for sharing the biblical gospel with people ensnared by false religions and philosophies.

  Readers will discover the key facts on—

  • Atheism
  • Buddhism
  • Evolution
  • Hinduism
  • Islam
  • Satanism
  • And more

  Fast Facts® on False Teachings is an easy–to–use resource that provides powerful insights for sharing the biblical gospel with people ensnared by false religions and philosophies.
• 
  63

  Jehovah Witnesses are NOT a bad Cult but man made type spiritual guide

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a jehovah's witness i remember these debates being mentioned about the raps of innocent children that elders commented, the blacks and whites segregation, the crosses and christmas tree in the bethal, etc.

  jehovah's witnesses have always been harassed for these things.

  with the changing world and knowledge of the scriptures they work hard to try to work towards accurateness.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  Yeah and thats why they got the timings wrong back then,.. prodicting when all the things would happen. But it's easier to see signs and follow patterns frm the past and that's why they see when Jesus was brought to rule today. We are still in the mist of signs though of the final hour. That's why we are warned to "get out of her" because it will happen so fast and some will be so tired of waiting for it to come that they will go about their daily lives (kinda like what I'm doing, not rushing back into JW because I am sick of fighting, waiting and want to just live life to the fullest I guess). God's way is not burdensom so why do I feel a heavy load when I'm a JW. (No preasure but there is) So isaacaustin keep going. I guess what I'm asking what is your belief... do you know the beliefs of JW and found all the glitches that you can say hey it's wrong...

  so far I find that the JW still have an answer to all that is going on with the Bible... I myself have a hard time with it I don't know all the answers and what I'm feed by the JW is all I know... I'm stuck and that is why I am on this site
• 
  63

  Jehovah Witnesses are NOT a bad Cult but man made type spiritual guide

  by Butterflyleia85 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i was a jehovah's witness i remember these debates being mentioned about the raps of innocent children that elders commented, the blacks and whites segregation, the crosses and christmas tree in the bethal, etc.

  jehovah's witnesses have always been harassed for these things.

  with the changing world and knowledge of the scriptures they work hard to try to work towards accurateness.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Butterflyleia85

  Ok so I didn't ask my grandma but I found it myself... That question I asked before I got baptised and I found the answer...

  Matt. 24:45-47

  45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

  It says he will appoint him over all his belongings!

  How do we know he appointed them over? If the master on arriving finds him doing so... giving them food at the proper time.

  The scriptures told me this... and God gave us the Bible for a guide.