We are co-creators that were put here to fix an imperfect world, not squatters living on a planet that we screwed up after it was given to us in "perfect" condition. That is the BIG LIE of the Bible.
hmmm... is there proof to this statement.
Butterflyleia85
JoinedPosts by Butterflyleia85
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95
What is a false prophet?
by Spade inif jehovahs witnesses are false-prophets, who can we look to as a prophet(s)?.
http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/what-is-false-prophet.html.
a false prophet as described in the old testament under the mosaic law covenant:.
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What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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Butterflyleia85
Q: Okay, I'm convinced that intercessory prayer is okay, but I'm confused. You've been talking about asking the saints to pray for you. Why do you call this praying to the saints?
Another survival of the older usage of "pray," and the one which concerns us here, is of course its use in Catholic circles. English-speaking Catholics never dropped the older usage when the Protestants around them began to restrict its meaning, and so Catholics still today speak of praying to the saints and meaning by it simply asking the saints to intercede for us.
Q: Isn't prayer an act of worship?
Praying to God certainly can include acts of worship (praising him and proclaiming his greatness for example), but one could also simply ask God for help in a prayer.
The bottom line is that, when used in reference to the saints, prayer is certainly not an act of worship but is, as we have said, simply a request for their intercession.
I like this part... thanks again for the explination... but personally I still would feel uncomfortable using the term "prayer" when I just mean "asking for intercession".
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37
What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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Butterflyleia85
Praying to the Saints I enjoyed the illustration because I myself am not against intercessory (or intervention) prayer. I remember being a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses they had elders pray for you and such. But as far as praying to anyone except Jesus is what I was saying I was against (hence the title of the website), but for someone to pray for someone especially if they have a better choice of words or representative of God’s servant I am not against. That's what I feel Paul was meaning in his words.
Speaking in my behalf is what I think when I think of someone praying for someone.
Again thanks for explaining their point of view, I learned alot. I will reread this article again though to see if I missed something.
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37
What is "the Kingdom"?
by Darth Eowyn ini have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because i wanted to get further information.. i am not a jw, ex jw, or even considering becoming a jw.
i am a fairly devout, practicing catholic.
two weeks ago, a couple of jw publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick.
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Butterflyleia85
For the Website No Heavenly Hope for the Old Testament Saints... I found this from my Watchtower Liberary I still have...
The watchtower 51 3/1 p. 146 par. 16 entitled Torments of the Rich Man
Website asks: If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are figurative, who do “all the prophets” represent?
Explains what Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and “all the prophets” in the Kingdom of God mean:
The expression “all the prophets” also represents the congregation of spiritual Israel, the members of the “body of Christ”. In the prophecies such ancient prophets were used to foreshadow these spirit-begotten Christians and to forecast their role or course of action. So together, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the prophets picture the Theocratic Government. Our seeing them “in the kingdom of God” means seeing with the eye of understanding that Jehovah, Jesus Christ and his congregation of spirit-begotten followers form the kingdom of God and are the ones in that heavenly kingdom. (farther detail below)
Website asks: Who are the “many from eastern parts and western parts” who “reclining at the table with” them in the heavenly kingdom?
Furthermore, people will come from the “eastern parts and western, and from north and south” is also explained:
After Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome’s imperial armies A.D. 70, the coming of those from east, west, north and south was mostly of the non-Jews or Gentiles from all nations reached with the good news. (farther detail below)
Then in g76 4/8 p. 21 entitled Why did they listen to Jesus
(I added this article because I thought it was interesting when it said even though you have good credible ancestry doesn’t mean you yourself are credible, hence when it was mentioned of certain religions having credible ancestry in line with their religion)
Descent from Abraham was considered especially beneficial. “So great is the [merit] of Abraham,” notes an authority on Judaism in ARabbinicAnthology, “that he can atone for all the vanities committed and lies uttered by Israel in this world.” A rabbinical commentary on the book of Genesis represents Abraham as sitting at the gate of Gehenna, to deliver any Israelite who otherwise might end up there. Thus, when urging his hearers, regardless of their ancestry, to repent and harmonize their lives with God’s law, Jesus’ forerunner John the Baptizer found it necessary to say: “Produce fruits that befit repentance. And do not start saying within yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham.’” (Luke 3:8) Jesus too directed attention away from the thought of gaining merit with God because of descent from Abraham when he said to fellow Jews:
“Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able . . . There is where your weeping and the gnashing of your teeth will be, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God , but yourselves thrown outside. Furthermore, people will come from eastern parts and western, and from north and south , and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. And, look! there are those last who will be first, and there are those first who will be last.”—Luke 13:24-30.
Jewish thought back there pictured the blessings of “the world to come” as a festive banquet with the patriarchs and prophets. But natural Jews who were “first” in line for such blessings would not inherit them merely because of fleshly descent from Abraham. If they refused individually to put forth earnest effort to meet God’s requirements, their places would be filled by those willing to ‘exert themselves,’ even though being from the Gentile nations, those “last” in line, so to speak.
Right-hearted persons, who could not reconcile with their consciences that God winked at wrongdoing simply because of someone’s ancestry, must have taken pleasure in listening to Jesus’ teaching on this matter.
How can Matthew 8:11, which speaks of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens, be harmonized with Matthew 11:11, which indicates that not even John the Baptist will be in it?
In Hebrews 11:8-19 we read: “By faith Abraham . . . dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the very same promise. For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, the builder and creator of which city is God. . . . But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac . . . But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.”
How did Abraham expect to receive Isaac back from the dead? In heaven as a spirit? No, but here on earth as a human creature. In an illustrative way he got Isaac back from the dead here on earth. So Abraham was not looking for any spiritual, heavenly resurrection to put him among the celestial angels any more than he was expecting Isaac to have such a resurrection and rejoin him in heaven. (Proof please you say, continue reading to see where they conclude to this)
Abraham had come out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more. He and his son Isaac and grandson Jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely , the government or city that God has prepared and in which the promised Seed or Offspring of Abraham will be God’s King. This is the “kingdom of God,” or “the kingdom of the heavens,” as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression “the heavens” having reference to God. Under that kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob expected to live on earth.
In the year 30 (A.D.) Jesus told Nicodemus that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were not in heaven. (John 3:13) (Read John 3:12-14){Three years later, on the day of Pentecost of the year 33, the apostle Peter said that the descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, namely, King David, had not ascended to heaven and so was not in any kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God. (Acts 2:34) Peter said that after Jesus made the statement about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Matthew 8:11 at the time of healing the servant of a Roman centurion.} Reading earlier Heb. 11:8-19 the heirs with him would have the same promise!
Hence those three patriarchs could not be in the Kingdom class as joint heirs with the Lord Jesus Christ. They were his ancestors, who preceded him by more than seventeen hundred years.
{ It is therefore evident that in Matthew 8:11 Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob figuratively. On the occasion when Abraham offered up his son Isaac, Abraham represented Jehovah God and Isaac represented God’s only-begotten Son Jesus Christ, who was offered up in sacrifice. Accordingly Jacob represented the spiritual Christian congregation, the “kingdom of the heavens” class; for, just as the congregation gets life through Jesus Christ, so Jacob got life from Abraham through Isaac. From this standpoint Abraham, Isaac and Jacob mentioned together in Jesus’ illustration would picture the great theocratic government, in which Jehovah is the Great Theocrat, Jesus Christ is his anointed representative King, and the faithful, victorious Christian congregation of 144,000 members is the body of Christ’s joint heirs in the Kingdom.} Mentioned in your website.
When the Christian congregation was founded on the day of Pentecost, its spirit-anointed members were made Christ’s joint heirs and were put in line for a place in the heavenly kingdom, to recline there at the spiritual table with the Greater Abraham and the Greater Isaac. The natural or fleshly Jews of the nation of Israel claimed to be the “sons of the kingdom” or the prospective members of God’s kingdom. From the day of Pentecost forward they saw the beginning and the gradual development of this theocratic arrangement, but because of their lack of faith in Christ they were not in it. Hence, as Jesus said (Matt. 8:12): “The sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”
For this reason it became necessary that many Gentiles (non-Jews), like the Roman centurion whose faith brought a miraculous cure by Jesus, should come “from eastern parts and western parts,” from all around the earth, to become dedicated, baptized Christians. Thus they could help make up the full number of the Kingdom class. For faithfulness to the death these converted Gentiles are resurrected to heavenly life to recline at the heavenly table, as it were, with Jehovah God and Jesus Christ “in the kingdom of the heavens.”
When understood this way, Matthew 8:11 agrees with Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:11: “Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.” Since Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not greater than John, they will not be literally in the kingdom of the heavens. Jesus used them only as an illustration of those who will actually be in it.
(Jehovah’s Witnesses believe to that John the Baptist will also have an earthly hope)
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95
What is a false prophet?
by Spade inif jehovahs witnesses are false-prophets, who can we look to as a prophet(s)?.
http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/what-is-false-prophet.html.
a false prophet as described in the old testament under the mosaic law covenant:.
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Butterflyleia85
Mocking isn't right either... we know they have inspiration and prophecy (I feel we all do in one time or another with God's holy spirit), but I think what ppl are trying to say here is that at one time Jehovah's Witnesses deny when they act as false prophets but give propaganda in understand what it is to be inspired, a prophet, even a false prophet... they need to self examine their founders and leaders... (Insight Book Vol. 1 pg. 1202-1207 show truth to the idea I believe but I believe they can be in denial when examining themselves in that they don't have the whole truth)
INSPIRATION
The quality or state of being moved by or produced under the direction of a spirit from a superhuman source. When that source is Jehovah, the result is a pronouncement or writings that are truly the word of God. The apostle Paul stated at 2 Timothy 3:16: “All Scripture is inspired of God.” The phrase “inspired of God” translates the compound Greek word the·o´pneu·stos, meaning, literally, “God-breathed” or “breathed by God.”
This is the only occurrence of this Greek term in the Scriptures. Its use here clearly identifies God as the Source and Producer of the Sacred Scriptures, the Bible. Their being “God-breathed” finds some parallel in the expression found in the Hebrew Scriptures at Psalm 33:6: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit [or breath] of his mouth all their army.”
Results From the Operation of God’s Spirit. The means or agency for the inspiration of “all Scripture” was God’s holy spirit, or active force. (See SPIRIT.) That holy spirit operated toward or upon men to move them and guide them in setting down God’s message. Thus, the apostle Peter says of Bible prophecy: “You know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2Pe 1:20, 21) The evidence shows that God’s spirit operated on the minds and hearts of all the Bible writers to carry them along to the goal purposed by God. King David said: “The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue.” (2Sa 23:2) When Jesus quoted Psalm 110, he said that David had written it “by inspiration [literally, in spirit].” (Mt 22:43) The parallel passage in Mark 12:36 reads “by the holy spirit.”
Even as Jehovah’s spirit moved men or qualified them to perform other divine assignments—the making of priestly garments and equipment for the tabernacle (Ex 28:3; 35:30-35), carrying the load of administration (De 34:9), leading military forces (Jg 3:9, 10; 6:33, 34)—so it enabled men to record the Scriptures. By means of that spirit, they could be given wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, and power, beyond what was normal and according to their particular need. (Isa 11:2; Mic 3:8; 1Co 12:7, 8) David is stated to have received the architectural plan of the temple “by inspiration [literally, by the spirit].” (1Ch 28:12) Jesus assured his apostles that God’s spirit would help them, teaching, guiding, and recalling to their minds the things they had heard from him, as well as revealing to them future things. (Joh 14:26; 16:13) This assured the truthfulness and accuracy of their Gospel accounts, including many lengthy quotations of Jesus’ speeches, even though John’s Gospel account, for example, was written scores of years after the death of Jesus.
Controlled by “the hand of Jehovah.” The Bible writers, therefore, came under Jehovah’s “hand,” or guiding and controlling power. (2Ki 3:15, 16; Eze 3:14, 22) Even as Jehovah’s “hand” could cause his servants to speak or to keep silent at appointed times (Eze 3:4, 26, 27; 33:22), so it could stimulate writing or act as a restraining force; it could prompt the writer to deal with certain matters or restrict him from including other material. The end product would, in every case, be that which Jehovah desired.
How Writers Received Divine Direction. As the apostle states, God spoke “in many ways” to his servants in pre-Christian times. (Heb 1:1, 2) In at least one case, that of the Ten Commandments, or Decalogue, the information was divinely supplied in written form, merely requiring copying into the scrolls or other material used by Moses. (Ex 31:18; De 10:1-5) In other cases, information was transmitted by verbal dictation, word for word. When presenting the large body of laws and statutes of God’s covenant with Israel, Jehovah instructed Moses: “Write down for yourself these words.” (Ex 34:27) The prophets also were often given specific messages to deliver, and these were then recorded, forming part of the Scriptures.—1Ki 22:14; Jer 1:7; 2:1; 11:1-5; Eze 3:4; 11:5.
Among still other methods used for conveying information to the Bible writers were dreams and visions. Dreams, or night visions as they were sometimes called, evidently superimposed a picture of God’s message or purpose on the mind of the sleeping person. (Da 2:19; 7:1) Visions given while the person was conscious were an even more frequently used vehicle of communication of God’s thoughts to the mind of the writer, the revelation being impressed pictorially upon the conscious mind. (Eze 1:1; Da 8:1; Re 9:17) Some visions were received when the person had fallen into a trance. Though conscious, the person apparently was so absorbed by the vision received during the trance as to be oblivious to all else around him.—Ac 10:9-17; 11:5-10; 22:17-21; see VISION.
Angelic messengers were used on many occasions to transmit the divine messages. (Heb 2:2) Such messengers played a larger part in the transmission of information than is at times apparent. Thus, whereas the Law given to Moses is presented as spoken by God, both Stephen and Paul show that God used his angels in transmitting that legal code. (Ac 7:53; Ga 3:19) Since the angels spoke in Jehovah’s name, the message they presented could therefore properly be called “the word of Jehovah.”—Ge 22:11, 12, 15-18; Zec 1:7, 9.
No matter what the particular means employed for the transmission of the messages, all parts of the Scriptures would be of the same quality, all of them being inspired, or “God-breathed.”
Is the fact that Bible writers showed individuality inexpression consistent with the Bible’s being inspired by God?
The evidence indicates, however, that the men used by God to record the Scriptures were not merely automatons, simply recording dictated material. We read concerning the apostle John that the “God-breathed” Revelation was presented to him through God’s angel “in signs” and that John then “bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw.” (Re 1:1, 2) It was “by inspiration [literally, “in spirit”]” that John “came to be in the Lord’s day” and he was told: “What you see write in a scroll.” (Re 1:10, 11) So, God apparently saw good to allow Bible writers to use their mental faculties in selecting words and expressions to describe the visions they saw (Hab 2:2), while always exercising sufficient control and guidance over them so that the end product would be not only accurate and true but also such as suited Jehovah’s purpose. (Pr 30:5, 6) That personal effort on the part of the writer was involved is shown by the statement at Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10, there being a pondering, searching, and arranging in order to present properly “delightful words and the writing of correct words of truth.”—Compare Lu 1:1-4.
This doubtless explains why there are different styles of writing as well as expressions that apparently reflect the background of the individual writers. The natural qualifications of the writers may have been a factor in God’s selection of them for their particular assignment; he may also have prepared them prior thereto to serve his particular purpose.
As evidence of this individuality of expression, Matthew, who had been a tax collector, makes numerous particularly specific references to numbers and money values. (Mt 17:27; 26:15; 27:3) Luke, “the beloved physician” (Col 4:14), on the other hand, uses distinctive expressions that reflect his medical background.—Lu 4:38; 5:12; 16:20.
Even where the writer speaks of receiving “the word of Jehovah” or a certain “pronouncement,” it may be that this was transmitted, not word for word, but by giving the writer a mental picture of God’s purpose, one that the writer would thereafter express in words. This is perhaps indicated by the writers’ speaking at times of ‘seeing’ (rather than ‘hearing’) “the pronouncement” or “the word of Jehovah.”—Isa 13:1; Mic 1:1; Hab 1:1; 2:1, 2.
The men used to write the Scriptures therefore cooperated with the operation of Jehovah’s holy spirit. They were willing and submissive to God’s guidance (Isa 50:4, 5), eager to know God’s will and leading. (Isa 26:9) In many cases they had certain goals in mind (Lu 1:1-4) or were responding to an evident need (1Co 1:10, 11; 5:1; 7:1), and God directed them so that what they wrote coincided with and fulfilled his purpose. (Pr 16:9) As spiritual men, their hearts and minds were attuned to God’s will, they ‘had the mind of Christ’ and so were not setting down mere human wisdom nor a “vision of their own heart,” as false prophets did.—1Co 2:13-16; Jer 23:16; Eze 13:2, 3, 17.
It can be seen that the holy spirit would, indeed, have “varieties of operations” toward or upon these Bible writers. (1Co 12:6) A considerable portion of the information was humanly accessible to them, sometimes already existing in written form, as in the case of genealogies and certain historical accounts. (Lu 1:3; 3:23-38; Nu 21:14, 15; 1Ki 14:19, 29; 2Ki 15:31; 24:5; see BOOK.) Here God’s spirit would operate to prevent inaccuracy or error from intruding into the Divine Record and also to guide in the selection of material to be included. Obviously, not everything stated by other persons and thereafter included in the Bible was inspired of God, but the selection of the material to be part of the Holy Scriptures and the accuraterecording of it were under the direction of holy spirit. (See Ge 3:4, 5; Job 42:3; Mt 16:21-23.) In this way God has preserved in his inspired Word a record demonstrating what happens when people listen to him and work in harmony with his purpose, as well as the outcome when they think, speak, and act in ways that show disregard for God or ignorance of his righteous ways. On the other hand, the information concerning the prehuman history of the earth (Ge 1:1-26), heavenly events and activities (Job 1:6-12 and other texts), and prophecies, as well as revelations of God’s purposes and of doctrines, was not humanly obtainable and would need to be transmitted supernaturally by God’s spirit. As to wise sayings and counsel, even though the writer may have learned much from his personal experience in life and even more from his own study and application of those parts of the Scriptures already recorded, the operation of God’s spirit would still be required to ensure the information’s qualifying as part of the Word of God that is “alive and exerts power . . . and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.”—Heb 4:12.
This may be seen by the expressions the apostle Paul makes in his first letter to the Corinthians. In giving counsel on marriage and singleness he says at one point: “But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord . . . ” Again: “Now concerning virgins I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion.” And finally, regarding a widowed woman, he states: “But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my opinion. I certainly think I also have God’s spirit.” (1Co 7:12, 25, 40) The evident meaning of Paul’s statements is that he could quote no direct teaching by the Lord Jesus on certain points. Hence Paul gave his personal opinion as a spirit-filled apostle. His counsel, however, was “God-breathed” and so came to form part of the Sacred Scriptures, having equal authority with the rest of those Scriptures.
There is clearly a distinction between the inspired writings of the Bible and other writings that, while manifesting a measure of the spirit’s direction and guidance, are not properly classed with the Sacred Scriptures. As has been shown, in addition to the canonical books of the Hebrew Scriptures, there were other writings, such as official records concerning the kings of Judah and Israel, and these, in many cases, may have been drawn up by men devoted to God. They were even used in research done by those writers who were inspired to write part of the Sacred Scriptures. So, too, in apostolic times. In addition to the letters included in the Bible canon, there were doubtless many other letters written by the apostles and older men to the numerous congregations during the course of the years. While the writers were spirit-guided men, still God did not place his seal of guarantee distinguishing any such additional writings as part of the inerrant Word of God. The Hebrew noncanonical writings may have contained some error, and even the noncanonical writings of the apostles may have reflected to some degree the incomplete understanding that existed in the early years of the Christian congregation. (Compare Ac 15:1-32; Ga 2:11-14; Eph 4:11-16.) However, even as God by his spirit, or active force, granted to certain Christians the “discernment of inspired utterances,” he could also guide the governing body of the Christian congregation in discerning which inspired writings were to be included in the canon of the Sacred Scriptures.—1Co 12:10; see CANON.
Recognition of Scriptures as Inspired. The evidence is clear that all the Sacred Scriptures, as progressively added to the Bible canon, were consistently recognized by God’s servants, including Jesus and his apostles, as inspired. By “inspiration” is meant, not a mere heightening of the intellect and emotions to a higher degree of accomplishment or sensitivity (as is often said of secular artists or poets), but the production of writings that are inerrant and that have the same authority as if written by God himself. For this reason the prophets who contributed to the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures ceaselessly credited their messages to God, with the pronouncement, “This is what Jehovah has said,” doing so over 300 times. (Isa 37:33; Jer 2:2; Na 1:12) Jesus and his apostles confidently quoted the Hebrew Scriptures as God’s own word spoken through the assigned writers, hence as certain of fulfillment and as the final authority in any controversy. (Mt 4:4-10; 19:3-6; Lu 24:44-48; Joh 13:18; Ac 13:33-35; 1Co 15:3, 4; 1Pe 1:16; 2:6-9) They contained “the sacred pronouncements of God.” (Ro 3:1, 2; Heb 5:12) After explaining in Hebrews 1:1 that God spoke to Israel through the prophets, Paul goes on to quote from several books of the Hebrew Scriptures, presenting the texts as though spoken personally by Jehovah God himself. (Heb 1:5-13) Compare similar references to the holy spirit at Acts 1:16; 28:25; Hebrews 3:7; 10:15-17.
Showing his full faith in the inerrancy of the Sacred Writings, Jesus said that “the Scripture cannot be nullified” (Joh 10:34, 35) and that “sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.” (Mt 5:18) He told the Sadducees that they were in error regarding the resurrection because “you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.” (Mt 22:29-32; Mr 12:24) He was willing to submit to arrest and death itself because of knowing that this was in fulfillment of the written Word of God, the Sacred Scriptures.—Mt 26:54; Mr 14:27, 49.
These statements, of course, apply to the pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures. That the Christian Greek Scriptures were likewise presented and accepted as inspired is also clear (1Co 14:37; Ga 1:8, 11, 12; 1Th 2:13), the apostle Peter in one statement including Paul’s letters with the rest of the Scriptures. (2Pe 3:15, 16) Thus the entire body of the Scriptures comprise the unified and harmonious written Word of God.—Eph 6:17.
Authority of Copies and Translations. Absolute inerrancy is therefore to be attributed to the written Word of God. This is true of the original writings, none of which are known to exist today. The copies of those original writings and the translations made in many languages cannot lay claim to absolute accuracy. There is solid evidence and sound reason for believing, however, that the available manuscripts of the Sacred Scriptures do provide copies of the written Word of God in nearly exact form, the points in question having little bearing on the sense of the message conveyed. God’s own purpose in preparing the Sacred Scriptures and the inspired declaration that “the saying of Jehovah endures forever” give assurance that Jehovah God has preserved the internal integrity of the Scriptures through the centuries.—1Pe 1:25.
What accounts for differences in wording of quotations made from the Hebrew Scriptures in the Christian Greek Scriptures?
In a number of cases the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures evidently made use of the Greek Septuagint translation when quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures. At times the rendering of the Septuagint, as quoted by them, differs somewhat from the reading of the Hebrew Scriptures as now known (most translations today being based on the Hebrew Masoretic text dating back to about the tenth century C.E.). As an example, Paul’s quotation of Psalm 40:6 contains the expression “but you prepared a body for me,” an expression found in the Septuagint. (Heb 10:5, 6) The available Hebrew manuscripts of Psalm 40:6 have, in place of that expression, the words “these ears of mine you opened up.” Whether the original Hebrew text contained the phrase found in the Septuagint cannot be stated with certainty. Whatever the case, God’s spirit guided Paul in his quotation, and therefore these words have divine authorization. This does not mean that the entire Septuagint translation is to be viewed as inspired; but those portions quoted by the inspired Christian writers did become an integral part of God’s Word.
In a few cases the quotations made by Paul and others differ from both the Hebrew and Greek texts as found in available manuscripts. The differences are minor, however, and upon examination are seen to be the result of paraphrasing, epitomizing, the use of synonymous terms, or the addition of explanatory words or phrases. Genesis 2:7, for instance, says “the man came to be a living soul,” whereas Paul in quoting this portion said: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’” (1Co 15:45) His addition of the words “first” and “Adam” served to emphasize the contrast he was making between Adam and Christ. The insertion was fully in accord with the facts recorded in the Scriptures and in no way perverted the sense or content of the text quoted. Those to whom Paul wrote had copies (or translations) of the Hebrew Scriptures older than those we have today and could investigate his quotations, in a way similar to that of the people of Beroea. (Ac 17:10, 11) The inclusion of these writings in the canon of the Sacred Scriptures by the Christian congregation of the first century gives evidence of their acceptance of such quotations as part of the inspired Word of God.—Compare also Zec 13:7 with Mt 26:31.
“Inspired Expressions”—True and False. The Greek word pneu´ma (spirit) is used in a special manner in some apostolic writings. At 2 Thessalonians 2:2, for example, the apostle Paul urges his Thessalonian brothers not to get excited or shaken from their reason “either through an inspired expression [literally, “spirit”] or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.” It is clear that Paul uses the word pneu´ma (spirit) in connection with means of communication, such as the “verbal message” or “letter.” For this reason Lange’s CommentaryontheHolyScriptures (p. 126) says on this text: “By this the Apostle intends a spiritual suggestion, pretended prediction, utterance of a prophet.” (Translated and edited by P. Schaff, 1976) Vincent’s WordStudiesintheNewTestament states: “Byspirit. By prophetic utterances of individuals in Christian assemblies, claiming the authority of divine revelations.” (1957, Vol. IV, p. 63) Thus, while some translations simply render pneu´ma in this and similar cases as “spirit,” other translations read “message of the Spirit” (AT), “prediction” (JB), “inspiration” (D’Ostervald; Segond [French]), “inspired expression” (NW).
Paul’s words make it clear that there are true “inspired expressions” and false ones. He refers to both kinds at 1 Timothy 4:1 when saying that “the inspired utterance [from Jehovah’s holy spirit] says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.” This identifies the source of the false “inspired utterances” as the demons. This is supported by the vision given the apostle John in which he saw “three unclean inspired expressions,” froglike in appearance, proceeding from the mouths of the dragon, the wild beast, and the false prophet, and which expressions he specifically states are “inspired by demons,” serving to gather earth’s kings to the war at Har–Magedon.—Re 16:13-16.
With good reason, then, John urged Christians to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God.” (1Jo 4:1-3; compare Re 22:6.) He then went on to show that God’s true inspired expressions were coming through the genuine Christian congregation, not through unchristian worldly sources. John’s statement was, of course, inspired by Jehovah God, but even aside from this, John’s letter had laid a solid foundation for making the straightforward statement: “He that gains the knowledge of God listens to us; he that does not originate with God does not listen to us. This is how we take note of the inspired expression of truth and the inspired expression of error.” (1Jo 4:6) Far from being mere dogmatism, John had shown that he and other true Christians were manifesting the fruits of God’s spirit, primarily love, and were proving by their right conduct and truthful speech that they were indeed “walking in the light” in union with God.—1Jo 1:5-7; 2:3-6, 9-11, 15-17, 29; 3:1, 2, 6, 9-18, 23, 24; contrast Tit 1:16.
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Video and pictures just coming in from the world wide protest!
by koolaid-man init was thrilling to participate in the world wide protest, jan, 21-23 2011 exposing the watchtower organization for their policies on deliberately breaking up up families.
we thank all those involved this past weekend for their passion and commitment to help free those trapped in falsehood.
i am aware that many on this forum do not believe in protesting against the watchtower society,and i respect their position.
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Butterflyleia85
We (Dfed) arent allowed to show a rebelous attitude, but a humble attitude when trying to get back in. I was always cautious too when I went back to the meeting to get back in not to talk to others long and make sure I mentioned I was DFed. Even if they say it's ok I'm not worried... I'd feel like if an elder saw I was talking to them that I would be judged for my actions (especially at meetings, conventions, or assemblies).
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90
Video and pictures just coming in from the world wide protest!
by koolaid-man init was thrilling to participate in the world wide protest, jan, 21-23 2011 exposing the watchtower organization for their policies on deliberately breaking up up families.
we thank all those involved this past weekend for their passion and commitment to help free those trapped in falsehood.
i am aware that many on this forum do not believe in protesting against the watchtower society,and i respect their position.
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Butterflyleia85
Our aim should be a clear and loud voice to let the public opinion know about the dangers of becoming a JW. We should not fight the disfellowshipping provision. Any entity has the right to establish its entrance and expulsion procedures and principles. But NO ONE has the right to teach its members to hate their ex members , ostracizing them and discriminating them.
So awesome!
In USA here in my area EastCentral... well I feel like some are ok with smiling maybe even waving if they have experience with disfellowshipment and no other Jehovah's Witness is around, while others stick their nose up and don't even look at you... bullying it feels like, snobbish attitude. When the members may not say your evil or died to them, we were warned by them when we were in that that is what they will be thinking of us... they aren't even aloud to pray for us if we aren't trying to become a Jehovah's Witness (showing effort they say). It hurts to feel hated by your own family... even if they secretly tell you "oh we love you we just wish you come back" that's not what they thought about with the other DFed members back when it wasn't your family or friend, or what they thought when upholding God's Standards that this is a way we should be thinking about DFed members. It's so confusing and hard, mixed emotions is what they pull.
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What is a false prophet?
by Spade inif jehovahs witnesses are false-prophets, who can we look to as a prophet(s)?.
http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/what-is-false-prophet.html.
a false prophet as described in the old testament under the mosaic law covenant:.
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Butterflyleia85
And like leavingWt pointed out... obviously Jehovah's Witnesses would fit the title of false prophets according to the scriptures, no matter how much they deny it, there is proof.
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95
What is a false prophet?
by Spade inif jehovahs witnesses are false-prophets, who can we look to as a prophet(s)?.
http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/what-is-false-prophet.html.
a false prophet as described in the old testament under the mosaic law covenant:.
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Butterflyleia85
Matthew 24:24-25
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Lo, I have told you beforehand.
1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Deu. 13:1-5
1 "If a prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder which he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, 'Let us go after other gods,' which you have not known, 'and let us serve them,' 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him, and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and cleave to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
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95
What is a false prophet?
by Spade inif jehovahs witnesses are false-prophets, who can we look to as a prophet(s)?.
http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/01/what-is-false-prophet.html.
a false prophet as described in the old testament under the mosaic law covenant:.
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Butterflyleia85
I believe how Chalam points out the scriptures... to me, God gave us (or ones faithfully serving god) holy spirit to help us understand the words of the bible. Jesus is the true prophet but he allows us to witness or prophesy his word and pass this down to their/our childern... what manner of doctrines and order of what is taught I believe is irrelevant... to get true meaning or the point of what God wanted would be apparent to us through holy spirit.
False prophets would be describe at Matthew 24:24-25; 1 John 4:1; Deu. 13:1-5. So instead of following dreamers we need to follow God's commandment. So it's just important even when we think we are right we always watch who leads us or our own thinking because only God is the truth, the way, and the light.