Posts by Butterflyleia85

3

Funny how my family acts when it comes to ALCOHOL

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

so yesterday my fiance (nonjw) and i went to my mom's for dinner and invited my sister's husband and her as well.

it was a nice visit but i couldn't help but notice a watchtower that had in bold letters alcohol on her coffee table.

i didn't make a comment but just chucked in my head as i recall my mom's "drinking" (as far as problem i'm not sure) but as dinner begin my mom offered beer which then i realize now her thinking, she is leading to the idea of moderation and that watchtower is there as her reminder to keep it in moderation.. then we were getting on the subject of age.

Butterflyleia85

Yes I totally believe that!

I think at one time it was a problem in our area (our congregation in a couple of surrounding congregations) then it was controled, and now that they saw the problem with it, our area is pretty strict about alcohol, that no body is seen drinking any but a little beer or wine, your not really looked good on if you order more then one drink or drinking more then one at events. I have never seen special events with members from our area have alcohol involved especially after that hugh problem (I heard about it when I was 16). You would more then likely get teased or stared down.

But when I turned 21 I was the only one in my hall expect a few that was old enough to drink and all the older adults (late 40s & older) looked down on going out and drinking except my mom. So when I found out that down in Indianapolis and Southport area it was totally different. I also found out a few surrounding towns had a few elders that took drinking more casually. I also saw more hypocrisy and teens or younger adult abusing this freedom or nonjudgmental view on drinking to extreme. The reality was after people got word of my lax sociel entertainment alot more JW from my own area started inviting me over to hang out and have a few drinks. This is where it all was sorta an eye opener... how a person can be so secretive and live double lives in the light of shunning such drinking in public and then going home and doing it themselves.

But I would still like to think... over powering control doesn't help the person to grow and learn, yet I do believe in eduating and letting the younger learn for themselves (abuse can come in anyform). It's like this guard or fear a person holds inside puts a henderance instead of helping, but I'm not sure sence I haven't seen much positive or honest play in this... I see where all this should be more of a personal decision and if the problem leads to self abuse or harm to family then some sorta intervintion would be smart.

19

Some Great Books

by jgnat in

i'm halfway through two books, and both of them together have greatly helped me understand why people are attracted to extreme religious groups like the jehovah's witnesses, and how these organizations manage to stick around...year after year.

i figure understanding why is the start.

if you are waiting for cherished relatives and friends to "see the light", these books might help.

Butterflyleia85

Oh how awesome... I will defiantly look into these books thanks!!

3

Funny how my family acts when it comes to ALCOHOL

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

so yesterday my fiance (nonjw) and i went to my mom's for dinner and invited my sister's husband and her as well.

it was a nice visit but i couldn't help but notice a watchtower that had in bold letters alcohol on her coffee table.

i didn't make a comment but just chucked in my head as i recall my mom's "drinking" (as far as problem i'm not sure) but as dinner begin my mom offered beer which then i realize now her thinking, she is leading to the idea of moderation and that watchtower is there as her reminder to keep it in moderation.. then we were getting on the subject of age.

Butterflyleia85

So yesterday my fiance (nonjw) and I went to my mom's for dinner and invited my sister's husband and her as well. It was a nice visit but I couldn't help but notice a Watchtower that had in bold letters ALCOHOL on her coffee table. I didn't make a comment but just chucked in my head as I recall my mom's "drinking" (as far as problem I'm not sure) But as dinner begin my mom offered beer which then I realize now her thinking, she is leading to the idea of moderation and that watchtower is there as her reminder to KEEP it in moderation.

Then we were getting on the subject of age. I asked my sister who is married and is plaining on getting baptised in May if she was turning 20 or 21 next month. She chucked and said, "I'm turning 20 but Jordan (her fiance) is turning 21, March, so I will be 21. hahaha" I looked at her and smiled but shook my head and said, "um yeah and how is that." She then said in a jokingly tone, "well obviously the frig will be stocked." I [sigh]... I think well maybe it's my presents as they still prob remember my drinking prob back when I was 21.

I think the Jehovah's Witnesses like the idea of "living dangers" they want to have restictions just so they can have fun with the system... I mean gees if it was free for all, then it would spoil the fun of being devious or sneaky. Maybe this is all a game to the young Jehovah's Witnesses, and don't get caught is part of the game. Well I got "caught" as it were (in my sister's mind) I'm in reality still her sister and she would never ignore that but sence I got "caught" her game is to hide our relationship and fun (wanting to drink). and I guess she's ok with that.

[Sigh] Does anyone else see what's wrong with this picture? My family are missed up... it's not anything to serious I don't think but obviously are in denial. It's the only entertainment JW can play with without feeling like becomeing worldly I guess.

24

Crisis of Conscience page 23

by Butterflyleia85 in

"the society's vice president, fred franz, was acknowledged as the organization's principal bible scholar.

on a number of occasions i went to his office to inquire about points.

to my surprise he frequently directed me to bible commentaries, saying, "why don't you see what adam clarke says, or what cooke says," or, if the subject primarily related to the hebrew scriptures, "what the socino commentaries say.".

Butterflyleia85

Thank you zoiks for your comment yes I am enjoying the COC book. It is an awaking that every troubled JW needs to read. It answers alot of questions that we all ponder over but are discouraged to look into. I am so happy I found this site as well as looked into this book and I hope one day my family will find this same freedom and contentment I have.

Chalam, actually it said it used the commentaries but to our (the peoples) delusion, we didn't have referance to the commentaries, we think (again) that it was coming from the governing body (spiritaul channel). We are lied to where the real understanding of the scriptures are coming from and who the real guides are (so that we will not be incouraged or open to doing real research ourselves for independant thinking). The governing body wants to hold the leadership and direct way of thinking.

The realization is that, wow, isn't there something really wrong with that picture?

Cadellin, interesting comment, can you give more info in why you say this? I might have missed something on this board about the topic of their expences a bet but I do have a bref understanding that some feel that they are money hungry but how they handle insurance and health care I really haven't heard much about.

Civcsi00, Oh yes I loved that comment and I was astonished reading that as well! Thanks for bring that up! I wanted to bring up a ton of points but then I felt maybe the post would get to long and loose ppls interest. But yes thanks for mentioning!

JWood and others, after reading this I would love to thank him as well as he is saving alot of people and hopefully,... maybe.... one day a move in the way things are, will change in a good way. Either the Governing Body will confess their sins to the people, that needs to know how they are being lead and they humble themselves or they be removed or dimissed from their position by a hugh move by the enlighted people (ones marked as "apostate"). It backfired on them I am afraid to say, they become the "prests" or "false prophets" they preach about.

9

Note reference to 607 B.C.E. on page 30, COC

by Butterflyleia85 in

"we found absolutely nothing in support of 607 b.c.e.

all historians pointed to a date twenty years later.

".

Butterflyleia85

Thank you guys for your comments.

24

Crisis of Conscience page 23

by Butterflyleia85 in

"the society's vice president, fred franz, was acknowledged as the organization's principal bible scholar.

on a number of occasions i went to his office to inquire about points.

to my surprise he frequently directed me to bible commentaries, saying, "why don't you see what adam clarke says, or what cooke says," or, if the subject primarily related to the hebrew scriptures, "what the socino commentaries say.".

Butterflyleia85

Ahh that does makes sence Slayerbard. Thanks for your comment.

24

Crisis of Conscience page 23

by Butterflyleia85 in

"the society's vice president, fred franz, was acknowledged as the organization's principal bible scholar.

on a number of occasions i went to his office to inquire about points.

to my surprise he frequently directed me to bible commentaries, saying, "why don't you see what adam clarke says, or what cooke says," or, if the subject primarily related to the hebrew scriptures, "what the socino commentaries say.".

Butterflyleia85

I wonder if really the annointed or the ones that are at Bethal get more descouraged when finding that the efforts really come from themselves as a whole rather then just the direction of Governing Body (Spiritaully Annointed)? It's almost like the idea of "spiritaully annointed" present gives them a motivation or inspiriation, such as a lucky charm... The work they do is commendable but the reality is each one of us has that power to reason on the scriptures. It shouldn't be through pressure or guilt but the motivation to do research and study. That's what I think anyways... I have come here (JWN) and found more understanding and incouragement then I did before any JW elder did.

It was like when I was young, obedant and things were simple, yes they were intellegent ones to me and gave me the foundation of reading the Scriptures but when we get older things get more complicated and one source doesn't answer all the questions... we need each other I believe as a whole to figure out the answers and give us guidance that benifit ourselves (family friends etc) in our life.

9

Note reference to 607 B.C.E. on page 30, COC

by Butterflyleia85 in

"we found absolutely nothing in support of 607 b.c.e.

all historians pointed to a date twenty years later.

".

Butterflyleia85

"We found absolutely nothing in support of 607 B.C.E. All historians pointed to a date twenty years later."

24

Crisis of Conscience page 23

by Butterflyleia85 in

"the society's vice president, fred franz, was acknowledged as the organization's principal bible scholar.

on a number of occasions i went to his office to inquire about points.

to my surprise he frequently directed me to bible commentaries, saying, "why don't you see what adam clarke says, or what cooke says," or, if the subject primarily related to the hebrew scriptures, "what the socino commentaries say.".

Butterflyleia85

And yes I agree with you PSacramento, that does appear to be true! But what the people are lead to believe is that they would of coarse be qualified, that they have the direct channel of truth brought by God... to understand scriptures and the docturines.

24

Crisis of Conscience page 23

by Butterflyleia85 in

"the society's vice president, fred franz, was acknowledged as the organization's principal bible scholar.

on a number of occasions i went to his office to inquire about points.

to my surprise he frequently directed me to bible commentaries, saying, "why don't you see what adam clarke says, or what cooke says," or, if the subject primarily related to the hebrew scriptures, "what the socino commentaries say.".

Butterflyleia85

page 29 were frighting words that I was thinking of already.

"The reality reveals instead how heavily control was vested in a few individuals, and how one man's rather idiosyncratic decision (that of Fred Franz) could affect the direction of worldwide organization could take."

(side note: I love his tact and consern throughout his book, he points out his consern and confusion, but yet he shares it with much tact and hope but then his disappointment and realization.)