Posts by miseryloveselders

139

Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

my school was a couple weeks back, and it was interesting to a degree.

to be honest with you, it reminded me of a police crime scene investigation with yellow tape.

what i mean is, in one respect it was business as usual.

miseryloveselders

Thanks for your well wishes everybody! I'm getting better!

Pirata-Thanks MLE for your observations. In your talk on education, did they introduce the term "supplemental education"? They were using that term in ours to describe education beyond high school that was shorter than than "higher educations" 4+ years.

Glad you mentioned this!! Yes!! They did use the term supplemental education! I'll relay to all of you the best I can from the notes I have on that particular term. The part on education was titled Pursue Divine Education, which by the way I would love to see that outline leak online. The grand puba started off this discourse by mentioning the thoughts of a certain Joseph Addison. I couldn't locate the exact quote online, but it was along the lines of "education shapes lives." The grand puba then asked the question, "Are you teachable?" He asked this from a sculpter's point of view whether or not we were like "limestone" which is easy to mold, or are we like "granite" which is difficult to mold and shape. Psalms 25:9 was used at this point which reads, "He guides the humble in what is right, and teaches them His way." Let the stretching of scriptural texts begin. He went on to apply this to meek ones whom Jehovah teaches so that they can be useful to His organization. Here's where the term "supplemental education" was used in a positive light, and "higher education" in a negative.

Higher education is bad because it benefits the "individual." Its primary purpose is for selfish reasons. It's also shows how limited of an outlook an individual has because whatever benefits it may have(which are very limited per the WT's view) are only short term. A person with a secular outlook in life has been influenced by the Devil who "only has a short while left." On the other hand, "supplemental education" which is a conscience matter, can be acceptable in the case of individuals or families who are seeking to support Jehovah's organization. These folks are spiritual minded and are seeking education with everlasting life in view.

Here's another tidbit that deserves mentioning. Divine education is needed more than ever today. According to the grand puba, there are 105,000 congregations in need of it. So Jehovah through the faith and discreet slave has seen fit to institute various divine educational programs such as the Bible School For Single Brothers, the Bible School For Christian Couples and a couple others I didn't have enough time to get specific notes on. My notes have some gibberish from scrambling to get it all word for word, and my memory is insufficient at this time. Maybe another brother, or in the case of sisters like Ynot, maybe you can help me out. I have written here that there are schools or classes designated for Kingdom Hall construction, and for those involved with the Regional Building Committees. The grand puba stated that all of this fulfills bible prophecy in harmony with 2 Tim 3:17.

At that point, some more guilt trip questions were raised along with a demonstration and a couple interviews of "well off" brothers who could afford to pay for their adult kids to pioneer. One of the questions raised was, "Am I secretly hoping to prove Jehovah and the Faithful and Discreet Slave wrong?" The other question was, "Do I trust the words found at Matt 6:33 regarding the seeking of the Kingdom first, and all these other things being added to you?" The speaker at this point paused. He then stated in a serious tone, "Some elders don't believe that." Out of respect for those brothers interviewed and their families, I'm not going to go into details of that interview other than them owning their own businesses. There was a demonstration done where an elder discouraged another brother from encouraging his kids to seek higher education. I wish I would have taped it, because you would have thought the elder was discouraging the brother from encouraging his daughter to seek employment at a brothel. It was truly something else. I mean the elder in the demo hit the father with everything including the kitchen sink. Everything from material things dont bring happiness, to the guarantee of spiritual shipwreck and the youth in question falling away from Jehovah. It definately left an impression.

The educational talk was presented in a way so that you had no confusion about your decision regarding higher education as being either in direct conflict with Jehovah and His organization, or being fully supportive. There was nothing gray about it. That talk led into a talk titled Trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Thats another outline I'd love to see leaked online. My notes on that are really jumbled up because it was a talk that was all over the place, and to be honest with you.......I think that was done on purpose. It wasnt meant to be a talk that you could keep up with. To be fair to whomever did that outline, maybe that wasn't the case, and maybe I was just tired. It was a long two days at that school and I was exhausted after it was over. Mentally drained. But that talk in my opinion was a puzzle, and I felt like I was momentarily disoriented while trying to keep up with it and taking notes. It touched on everything from the Governing Body's inception in 33 CE, to its modification in 49 CE. This was compared to the 71" Legal Body of the WT vs the modern day Governing Body. Someone else is going to have to give me a hand on this one, cuz it left me in a tailspin. I felt like Mike Tyson during the 10th round of his fight with Buster Douglas. It was too much. My head is starting to hurt right now trying to relay this talk to you.

Maybe somebody can help me out on this last talk. I'll try to review these notes again and get my memory together.

139

Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

my school was a couple weeks back, and it was interesting to a degree.

to be honest with you, it reminded me of a police crime scene investigation with yellow tape.

what i mean is, in one respect it was business as usual.

miseryloveselders

My school was a couple weeks back, and it was interesting to a degree. To be honest with you, it reminded me of a police crime scene investigation with yellow tape. What I mean is, in one respect it was business as usual. Kind of like when passerbys to a crime scene get too nosy, and the surrounding officers say, "move along sir, there's nothing to see here." In that respect, its true, this school was like any other meeting, assembly, or convention. Prior to going, my father who's older and cantankerous told me that this school will be like all the other schools he's attended, and per his words, "the same ol crap!" Me being younger, and recently appointed, this was a new experience for me. I was somewhat excited, especially since developing apostate leanings within the past year. Going back to police crime investigation scenes, for some its true, there's nothing to see. However, for those of a more inquisitive nature, especially those with invested interests, there was plenty to gather.

The first thing I noticed upon entering the KH where it was held, was the diversity of brothers attending. It was about 60% white, and about 39% black. The reason I left out the other 1% was because there was a couple Indian brothers there of the 7-11 type, no disrespect by the way. Its hard for me to imagine JWs of Indian descent. Just goes to show how I ignorant I am I guess. The other noticeable thing about those attending was the age discrepancies. Less than half of the attendees were older, I'm talking in their 50's to possibly 90's, with the majority of those considered Medicare aged. I found it humorous that most of the older white brothers had haircuts from years gone by. They reminded me of The Outsiders. I pictured those older brothers in their younger years living double lives and wearing leather jackets with nicknames like Pony Boy. These are men who have been waiting for the end of this system of things to come for quite a long time. Too long, if you ask me, and lately I don't think I'm prepared to wait as long as them. Considering the tone of the school at certain times, many other brothers around my age might not be planning on waiting that long either.

At the beginning the school, a visiting heavyweight(in both definitions) from Bethel who was the chairman, and grand puba if you will, made my day. I'm not gonna say what his name is, lets just say his last name rhymes with "ante." No WT sponsered meeting is without self adulation, and this school was no exception. He started off patting the organization on the back regarding the new Flock Book. Now this is what made my day. After praising the book, especiallly praising how easy it is to navigate the book, he goes on to say, "brothers, do you know that someone posted the contents of the book on the internet!" All the brothers in attendance with gray hair simultaneously gasped. It was hilarious! I heard brothers go, "what!!" I looked to my right, and saw two older brothers who reminded me of Statler and Waldorf from Sesame Street, look at each other in astonishment. The contrast was evident between the older brothers and those my age. Those my age, didn't even bat an eye. In this day and age, nothing is private. Nothing is confidential.

The fact that the powers that be in Bethel, and the older brothers in this organization where shocked about the Flock book leaking online tells ya a couple things. One, there's a tremendous lack of awareness on the part of seriously indoctrinated JWs regarding the real world. I mean seriously, in this day and age of Wikileaks, leaked music albums, leaked movies, did the GB and Writing Department really think their precious handbook wouldn't end up online? Another thing, the fact that the younger elders didn't bat an eye, tells me this organization is getting ready to, or may already be in the midst of a civil war of sorts. "One" of the causes of the civil war in this country was due to the disconnect regarding federal goverment vs. state's rights. The same conflict is brewing between leadership at Bethel, and those taking the lead in your average congregation, particularly younger elders. There's a serious disconnect between Walkhill and the average publisher in your average congregation. With the shortage of company men to take the lead, its inevitable that men who aren't as indoctrinated as the GB and Writing Department would like, are getting appointed. These appointed men don't exactly see eye to eye with the chosen few in NY. Hence, you have elders lurking and posting on forums such as this. You have Bethelites playing the role of moles on behalf of websites such as Free Minds. Time will tell how much this disconnect will alter the course and direction of this organization.

The most infamous part of the school, at least in my opinion was regarding education. I say in my opinion, because for many of you the blood doctrine, and the new document which also leaked online, may be what burns you the most. Or maybe the parts on trusting the faithful and discreet slave burns you. Maybe another brother who attended can speak on those subjects. Going back to education, as a man I don't do well with threats. I'm not the kind of guy that backs down easy. If you're confident enought to threaten me physically, you better know what your're doing. I'm not trying to come off like a tough guy, I'm just saying. Anyways, we were threatened at this school. I kid you not, threatened. When it came to education, the grand puba made the statement that if any elder, or anyone in his immediate family was attending a university, his qualications were to be reviewed. Here's the real kicker. If the other elders on that body did not review his qualifications, they were all culpable. That was the exact word he used, and in that context. Culpable. During that part, you could have heard a pin drop even on a carpeted floor. It was shocking. I'm sitting there thinking to myself, "did he just threaten us?"

The most offensive part about it was this guy is criticizing us for our choices in education, when his entire livelihood is based off of our employment and paychecks! On top of that, the guy is overweight. He's fat! I'm thinking to myself this fat greasy mother f#$# who's getting the best of it all, has the nerve to threaten us for our secular education choices. That's when it hit me. This grand puba has a tremendous stake in the rank in file. He makes his living by traveling to various congregations giving talks, and by doing whatever it is that he does at Bethel. If its true what they say that those recieving college educations are leaving this organization, it goes without saying that his and others like him are having their way of life threatened. They respond by threatening us. Another thing he stated was that if one chooses to pursue higher education, it shows they don't have loyalty to the faithful and discreet slave. The grand puba stated, "if you have loyalty to the faithful slave, then where's your son?" He also encouraged parents to financially support their adult children when they choose to pioneer.

There's a lot more I'd love to share, but I gotta get my thoughts together. Plus I'd love to hear from others who attended. I've got more notes I'll share later on. Plus I'm dealing with a virus. I've been in the fetal position in my bed most of the day. I'm just now starting to recover. I'll share more later.

65

Be honest...What movie star do you look like?

by Botzwana in

jw
friends

i am curious as to what the members here look like.

be totally honest now.

not everyone looks like a knockout or mr. buff.... .

miseryloveselders

When I was younger, people told me I looked like Will Smith. I guess because I was underweight and hadn't come into my own as a man. Nowadays since becoming older and a little rounder, people tell me I look like a younger Branford Marsalis. I don't know if thats a good or a bad thing.

3

Could this animated GIF describe you when you read COC, Gentile Times Reconsidered, or Steve Hassan's books, etc.?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/pray4death/461c2aaa2f17.gif.

.

miseryloveselders

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/PRAY4DEATH/461c2aaa2f17.gif

24

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."- Michael Corleone in Godfather III. Sorta reminds me of my life.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

most of you recognize that line from the godfather iii, which wasn't the greatest film in my opinion, but that line was classic.

it perfectly depicts my life as it stands now.

i'm at a crossroads in life, and my heart is being tugged in different directions.

miseryloveselders

I appreciate all your thoughts. It means a lot to me that there are people out there who've experienced life as a JW. It means even more to me that there are those of you out there who have had doubts, and went through the agony of trying to keep those thoughts to yourself. I wanted to share that first part of my story with you to give you some background into why I am where I am. I'm a very flawed man, and have been for some time, I just didn't realize how pitiful I am until lately. Here's the second part. Thank you for reading and responding to my story. Like I said this is therapeutic to me. Here's the second, and maybe concluding part. I'm not sure how I'll wrap this up. I wasn't really planning on doing this, but I type as my thoughts come to me. I never quite have a plan when I post something, where it ends up, it ends up is my motto. I want to be as honest as anonymity will allow me which is a breath of fresh air considering the 1984 mentality of WT-Land.

The memories of the book study being at people's homes was still relatively fresh to me after I got appointed. Back then, occasionally, an elder would approach me and request that I conduct on his behalf if he'd be out of town, or sick. Me being the yes-man that I was, I always came through. Most cases its nothing to conduct. Its relatively easy. The questions are printed out for you, the answers to the questions contain a part of the question being considered. Difficulties were few, such as having a poor reader and knowing that all of the sisters there could read circles around him. Or a group that had difficulty commenting for a variety of reasons including shyness, or lack of preperation. The hardest part to me when conducting the book study then was stretching the lesson out to an hour. Even now when I do the Congregation Bible Study, or the Watchtower, I feel like the time is crawling because with many of those lessons the main points can be derived in less than the alotted time. At any rate, the only time I really struggled with the book study from a logical perspective, was when we did the Revelation book. I cringed preparing for it, and hated with a passion conducting it. My book study overseer at the time was having health problems, so he asked me often enough to conduct in his absense. So there was no winging it when it came to that book. After the book study arrangement was dissolved, I went back into autopilot as far as my study habits were concerned. I studied just enough to daydream at the meeting, and still wake up at any given moment and comment with ease. It helps that most of the study material isn't rocket science, or neurology. Then I got appointed. Enter PreMisery.

I figured since I'm an elder now, I'd better step my study game up. Which I did, and it paid off for me. Just not in the way that the WT would have liked it to. The more studying and research I did, the more I had this nagging feeling that much of what I was reading was retarded. I've always been interested in history, and current events, which I credit my dad for instilling into me. He's obsessed with World War 2. I joke with him sometimes that if I have a son, I'll name him Adolf. Imagine that, a seventy something old black grandfather showing off his black grandkid Adolf. Anyways, I found myself feeling awkward because the interpretations of biblical history and prophecy as explained on the History Channel, or National Geographic made much more sense to me than what the WT was/is publishing. Even without outside influence, just taking the bible and reading it on its own does major damage to WT doctrine. Doctrines such as the Faithful & Discreet Slave, or the Other Sheep, are simple scriptures that really don't require much explanation or interpretation. They're black and white in my opinion. When I tried to force upon myself the WT's doctrines of these simplistic bible verses, my head started hurting. Does not compute! Does not compute! Password is incorrect! Please try again! Its like forcing a square block into a circular hole.

Thank God, or the Devil, for the internet. I started Googling various doctrines to see what Babylon The Great's views were. Lo and behold, much of their doctrines made more sense than the WTs. Granted many other Christian denominations have ludicrous views as well. I know this sounds cliched but I do believe JWs have the proper view of the relationship between God and His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Do I believe thats a reason to discredit any other Christian faith not affiliated with the WT? Absolutely not. Its proposterious to teach that God is love, and yet he's going to destroy every nonJW on this earth for not recognizing the WT as the selected channel for communication with God. I refuse to accept that as it flies in the face of logic, principle, reasoning, decency, morality, etc.. Its another one of those things taught in WT-land that just doesn't make sense when you get down to it. As I continued researching, I stumbled across Free Minds. Initially I clicked away immediately like it was child porn or something vulgar. But I had to go back, I just had to. I started breezing through it, and eventually I ended up here. I lurked for quite a while during the Year Of Reniaa.

Ohh how I enjoyed watching her and IsaacAustin/Mary go back and forth. There were times I was pro-Reniaa and I'd say to the monitor, "get em girl!" Most times however, my heart sunk into my stomach because the reasonable posts by Isaac and Mary were too logical to refute. What Reniaa was posting was what she was taught, what I was taught, and many others just like us. Many of us were and some are still incapable of seeing the other side of a doctrinal dispute. I'm thankful I've been able to progress beyond that. I'm glad to have read Scholar's debates with AnnOMally, AllTimeJeff's debates with Perry and Jonathan Dough, and several others. Nowadays I refuse to fall back into that I'm right and you're wrong mindset. For the record, all of those names I mentioned, I'm not siding with or criticizing, including Reniaa. I try to have a fair and reasonable approach with any train of thought presented to me. I've allowed the WT to do my thinking for me, for a good 20-30 years of my life, and I refuse to let that continue on. I also refuse to allow anybody else for that matter other than myself think for me. Which is why I try to be fair to the WT and JWs. That being said, my next and final post I'll explain why my heart is really being pulled in different directions at this time.

24

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."- Michael Corleone in Godfather III. Sorta reminds me of my life.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

most of you recognize that line from the godfather iii, which wasn't the greatest film in my opinion, but that line was classic.

it perfectly depicts my life as it stands now.

i'm at a crossroads in life, and my heart is being tugged in different directions.

miseryloveselders

Most of you recognize that line from The Godfather III, which wasn't the greatest film in my opinion, but that line was classic. It perfectly depicts my life as it stands now. I'm at a crossroads in life, and my heart is being tugged in different directions. I've been active on this forum for over a year, and I wanted to share a few thoughts. I need to get this off my chest, as doing so is therapeutic. I've never actually posted "my story" per say on here, partially because its a work in progress. Also, because its not anything that most of you haven't already heard before. Plus I don't like talking about myself, which is partially why I ended up on this board in the first place. Anyways, here it is for what its worth.

During my teenage years, and young adult years, I did the "double life" thing. Personally I believe 90% of JW youth have lived double lives at one point or another. Although there's no statistical way to prove it, I believe the ones that really went buckwild behind the scenes, turned out to be the more die hard JWs later on in life as the matured into adults with responsibilities. My own life and others I've known supports this personal theory. I live in what I'd call a semi-major city. Its a city in flux, transitioning from a historically blue collar town, to a white collar metropolis. During my teenage years, gangbangin introduced its ugly head. Neighborhoods that were already at each others throats, became color coded during those years. The dope game as a result became more organized. The neighborhood I lived in took sides with the blue team. I was never initiated, but because I grew up with these guys, it made me affiliated. My entire wardrobe consisted of various shades of blue. Despite 1 Cor 15:33 being permanently stamped in my brain, its much easier said than done selecting who you choose to surround yourself with at a young age.

Its funny looking back, because I was on one hand attending meetings, going out in field service, running mics, doing the stage, getting praised for how I handled #4 talks, helping out with literature, etc.. I was an exemplary JW when I needed to be. At school, and in the streets, I was somebody else. Some of the witnesses I grew up with in the congregation were involved with similar activities. The JW background served as a barrier preventing any of us from dabbling too much into street life which is a good thing in hindsight. I'm not in touch with any of those other born-ins, so I can't speak on behalf of them all. They'd probably agree with me that its hell on a person's conscience when living a double life of that degree. Not to mention the paranoia of getting caught and having to face a judicial committee and bringing shame on your family's name.

One instance, for example, on a Monday in the middle of the summer, I'm sitting on the curb outside of a neighborhood baseball field. There's three other dudes with me. I'm dressed in baggy and slightly sagging khaki shorts, matching Timberland boots only partially laced, an oversized white tee shirt, and an LA Dodger fitted hat tilted to the side. The other three with me are dressed similar. That day we were chillin, nothing really going on. Anyways this minivan is coming down the street in our direction. We're paying attention to this van, but we're not being too obvious about it. For one thing, it could be Task Force, which I wasn't all that paranoid about because I never sold dope anyway. The others with me did, so they were a little more paranoid. Or it could be rivals, but thats unlikely because a minivan isn't exactly the best vehicle to shoot out of. Plus the vehicle was too clean. The last possibility was, it could be a customer looking to satisfy their fix. Or it could just be some random family. Like I said in the past on other threads, this neighborhood wasn't exactly South Central LA, but definately not Beverly Hills. When the van got close enough, it was actually something worse than all of the previously mentioned. It was the Service Overseer, with another elder in the passenger seat doing RVs, or sherperding calls!!!! Imagine that, the guys I'm with are paranoid over Task Force catching them with little white rocks in their pockets, and I'm paranoid that these two elders will recognize me and, #1 embarrass me in front of my friends, or #2 tell my parents about the type of people I'm hanging out with. Not a good feeling. After a while, situations such as this add up, and it gets tiresome trying to balance both worlds. Eventually I had to give one up. The only problem with that is, I traded in one double life for another.

The other double life that I got involved with and later stopped because it was too difficult to manage, was my dealings with the opposite sex. Every guy goes through a period where he thinks he's the player of all players. I thought I was God's gift to women back then. Its funny how as a teenager you start off getting a girl's phone number, and your ego goes through the roof. Telling your boys, "I got the digits bruh! I knew I would anyway. I'm a mack." The reality is you're an immature kid and scared you'll be labeled a lame for not talking to girls. Not to mention I was scared even when with a girl. Can't tell you how many times a girl said to me, "just relax." I wanted to tell them, "how can I relax when Jehvoah is watching us!!" Eventually something has to give and when you're young and immature, urges win out over conscience. Thinking back, my first kiss was in my dad's minivan. I had just got my license, and he let me borrow the van. She worked at McDonalds, and when she got off, I picked her up after work. Before I picked her up, I hid all the random Awake and Watchtower magazines under the seats. Yep, she was worldly, as were the majority of the hook-ups I had back then. I took her home, and I'll never forget her grabbing my head and sticking her tongue down my throat. Greatest feeling in the world. It was a strange experience when it happened, but oh so wonderful. When she got out and closed the door, I noticed her McDonalds visor. I honked the horn, and motioned her over to get it. Close call, too close. I don't know how I would have explained to my parents why a McDonalds Visor was on the floor in front of the passenger seat.

Needless to say, her and I didn't work out too well. Thats the case with any double life dating. At the same time, its frustrating as a young man, because your sex drive is insane. I used to pray out of anger to God like, "why is my sex drive so strong? You don't want me to get married too early because I'm immature, but you curse me with a sex drive? Why? Why are you doing this to me?" Certain times I just couldn't hack it, and gave into my desires. During the act, its thrilling, ya know? When I got my first car, I was really out of line. I'm 19 and doing 60 on the blvd with a girl's head in my lap, and she wasn't napping. You know what that does to a guy's ego? After that incident and others, I'd go home and pray for hours with real tears begging for forgiveness, and promising each time I'd never do it again. Just like I explained about hanging with the wrong crowd, hooking up with women and trying to hide it just becomes tiresome. My conscience was killing me, and I was tired of being so paranoid. So I gave it all up. Everything.

I was still an exemplary brother in the congregation despite all of my hidden activities. So when I straightened up, and took the JW lifestyle seriously, I excelled. My field service time was always above the national average. As a Ministerial Servant, I was giving talks away at other congregations. My parents are happy, the congregation adores me. My name is surfacing in other neighboring congregations. The other Ministerial Servants were wondering how long it would take for me to get appointed as they acknowledged that I passed them up as a teacher, and a speaker. The night the brothers pulled me to the side and asked whether or not I'd accept the appointment of being an elder, I was incapable of saying no. My whole life I had been saying yes, to any assignment given to me. I was trained like a dog to perform. Sit Ubu sit, good dog. That was me. When I was still under my folks roof, my dad caught wind of me turning down a part on the Circuit Assembly. He ripped into me. Let me have it. Pounding his fist on the glass table for emphasis. That's the kind of pressure put on JW youth. Many of us never reached out genuinely, but rather we did it because we were trained to. I was no exception, so I naturally said yes to my appointment. Second worst mistake of my life, with the first being getting baptized into this religion in the first place.

There's more I want to share, but I'm going to the submit tab now because I don't know if it will all fit in one post.

71

The Doors - Your Favorite Songs By Them ? YOU-tubes Welcome !

by flipper in

jw
friends

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrv7hs7k7w8.

miseryloveselders

Surprised nobody did this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXeXm0uMDo

2

Tales from the Bush / The Real Use For Magizines

by fadinfast in

some of you may have read these, but i thought i would put them in this category which seems more appropriate, if you like a bit of lite reading ,let me know, got a few more related stories i can drop here [am a one finger typist though, and she who must be obeyed bans me off the computer from time to time].. .

mention was made round here the other day of mag placement [was it a complete waste of time etc] and this story came to mind that i thought you may enjoy.

me and my mate decided to go do some 'outback' witnessing, the word got around , and out comes all them unplaced mags, like a mud slide threatening to overwhelm/overload you.

miseryloveselders

Thats fascinating, good read. Australia sounds like bizarre place.

9

Feared Mexican drug lord was an ex-JW

by Gerard in

the mexican drug war has left more than 30,000 dead since december 2006, courtesy of drug cartels fighting between themselves and against the security forces to gain control of the lucrative smuggling routes to the usa.

one of the most ruthless cartel is known as "la familia", a quasi-religious drug gang led by nazario moreno gonzalez (aka: el chayo); he was killed in a shootout with the federal police about 3 weeks ago.

he preached his organization's "divine right" to torture and kill their rivals (decapitation or disolved in acid is quite common).. as it turns out, nazario moreno gonsalez was an ex-jw who used his recruiting skills to adoctrinatepeople into working as gunmen and vested them with the "divine justice" to kill cartel rivals.

miseryloveselders

I wonder what tactics he used for conversation stoppers.

101

Special Assembly: CO admits the grip is tightning.....

by yourmomma in

what im about to post is the exact words from the co during the last talk of the most recent special assembly day.

even though im out i still try to keep up with what is being said just cause i find it interesting, and alot of stuff i find funny, but this stuff is starting to get scary, and i fear for my friends who are still in.

here are the exact words:.

miseryloveselders

It was one of my key motivations to get out NOW before my kid's too far along in indoctrination. I was a teenager in the 80s and as such, college was forbidden. When the Borg came out with their softened stance regarding higher education in the 90s I was PISSED. I have never gotten over that. Then, when the Borg began cracking down on college again, I saw that my child was likely to go through the same thing I did unless I got her out of the cult asap. Our children's future careers shouldn't be dependent on the whims of a handful of crackpots who have never worked a full-time job in their lives.

This could have been written by my sister as she feels the exact same way. There's a significant age difference between her and myself. I asked her some time ago before I started lurking here whether or not she remembered convention talks that subliminally criticized marriage while at the same time encouraged pioneering during the 80's. I was a kid then, but I always seemed to remember that for some reason to this day. I figured she would have remembered this. What prompted me to ask the question was a discussion I had with my uber-brainwashed mother who firmly denies the WT ever discouraged marriage for pioneering either in printed word, or spoken from the platform. So the next time I saw and spoke with my sister I asked her. She remembered and verified it for me. It led to us conversing about other related matters such as education. She told me, "you had it better than we did. We couldn't even consider a two year college."

Her and her husband both are doing pretty well for themselves, but she's expressed to me on more than one occasion that pioneering was a waste of time, and she did it for a good decade from what I remember. She's expressed gratitude toward my father who demanded that she stop pioneering back then, if only momentarily, in order to go school briefly so she would be able take care of herself. The part time job she had while pioneering was insufficient for life's necessities. My dad worked hard to make sure we weren't raised in the projects. He viewed her pioneering and part time work as building a future towards the projects or similar. She went through a crash course that got her better part time employment, and then she pioneered for some time afterwards. Eventually she saw the futility in pioneering, and started working full time, and she got married. When she stated that my generation of JWs had it better than her generation, she was speaking on the laxing of anti-college sentiments when I was a teenager. Like you said Mad Sweeny, they're tightening their grip again. The most recent assembly had a speaker liken those who pursue higher education to seeking a better cabin room on the Titanic.