Posts by garyneal

51

Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

" this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

garyneal

besty,

Good point. I guess I have been studying with them for too long that I have started to 'think' like them in some ways. God has been working on me to correct that I know because the church I am attending now does things so differently in regards to their worship service than the witnesses do that when I first entered the church I kept thinking about all the things that seemed unorthodoxed about them. Truth is, I never thought this way before I started studying with them. Never-the-less, finding a good Bible believing church is still very important.

51

Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

" this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

garyneal

Yknot,

I'm kind of fuzzy regarding where you stand in your faith (devout JW or not) but I do agree that pastors, deacons, elders, and people of christian churches in general should be working harder to ensure that the church is well versed in what the Bible really says and how to detect a false teacher. Unfortunately, as most JW's will attest to, most Christians (even those who go to church regularly) do not really know the Bible. I cannot assign all the blame to the clergy, as it is truly up to us as individuals to ready and study the Bible for ourselves, but they have a greater responsibility of properly teaching and watching over their flock.

To the others,

I realize that if I am to reject the Watchtower doctrine as having the truth and not become one of the Jehovah's Witnesses then I need to be able to offer an alternative. The easy (and most correct) answer is Jesus since He is the root of our beliefs and the source of our salvation. However, we are also not suppose to forsake the assembly of ourselves with other believers so church attendance is important. Unfortunately, not all churches teach properly according to scripture. If my wife happens to be attending a church with me, she is quick to point out their errors from scripture and exhalt the Kingdom Halls as "the closest thing to the truth" that she has experienced. (Yet of course, she is clearly blind to errors I see in the Watchtower theology.)

Never-the-less, it is very discouraging when I see so many churches straying too far away from scripture. Pray that God will lead me to a good church (which may be the church I am attending now or another one).

51

Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

" this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

garyneal

Oh, and let me add that the gotquestions.org website led me back to Jesus Christ, who I have given my life to back in 1991 but wasn't really following for years. I rededicated my life and have at least found a church that I attend regularly, I've been reading the Bible as well as researching information regarding the witnesses.

I feel a burden in my heart to witness to others (particularly JW's) and I've been praying asking God to show me how I may be able to serve Him in this way.

51

Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

" this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

garyneal

Perry,

Thank God and The Holy Spirit. Before I went into their house, I prayed to God and asked for His help because I knew what I was up against.

BabaYaga,

My wife has been studying with them for years. She is a second generation JW and has apparently bought into this religion. She feels torn though because she wants to celebrate Holidays but feels that she cannot do this and "please Jehovah" at the same time. She thinks she is going to die because she celebrates them with me.

When my wife and I moved in together six years ago, I began studying with them as well. For years, I saw the hypocrisy in the churches that I had been attending but I did not fully embrace their doctrines either. I did begin to think that maybe they were on to something and when my wife announced last spring (2009) that she wanted to become a witness, this bothered me.

What bothered me more was my realizing how confused I was and how I wasn't sure if I knew what was the truth anymore. At that time, I have heard so much Watchtower theology that I was beginning to see myself as becoming a Jehovah's Witness because I was beginning to think that they may have been right. But I decided before I take that leap, I better figure out what the Bible really says and what the Truth really is. So I prayed and began reading the Bible.

The first think I discovered was that their teaching of the 144,000 did not appear to jive with what the Bible described in Revelations. I remember what other pastors had said about the 144,000 so I did some research on the Internet (Satan's domain according to my wife). I found this great website at http://www.gotquestions.org/ that help me with questions concerning the 144,000, Jesus being Michael the Archangel, and other Watchtower beliefs as well as what the Bible actually teaches. It lead me to http://www.4jehovah.org/ that covered more of the Watchtower theology and how they differ from the Bible. Then that site lead me to http://www.freeminds.org/ and my eyes were opened to the unchristian practices of the Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Any hope my wife may have had of me becoming a Jehovah's Witness was destroyed as I am now in fear of them and what they may do to my family and my daughter. After a lot of prayer and my rededicating my life to Christ Jesus, I learned that my fear should be to God alone (Isaiah 8:12-13) and that we should sanctify Christ as Lord in our hearts (1 Peter 3:14-15).

I thank the Lord for showing me the things that He did. I've known this elder and his wife for years and they are in their 80's (been in the "truth" for 50 years). I also know my wife loves the Lord but feels that the only way to serve Him is through the Watchtower organization. She does not want to disappoint the elder and his wife nor does she want to displease her mom (a devout witness who raised her in this religion). She's blinded herself to reason and has embraced this error. She actually thinks that there is nothing wrong with those baptismal questions.

Please pray for us as well as for all Jehovah's Witnesses who are trapped in this cult. Pray that the Holy Spirit will show them the error being taught by the Watchtower Society and that they need to come to Christ for salvation. Let us all pray and plant the seeds that God can use to lead these people out of darkness.

74

2010 Special Assemby Day program: "The Time Left Is Reduced"

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

the time left always seems to be reduced but it never runs out.. here is the program for the 2010 special assembly day.

the time left is reduced.

(1 corinthians 7:29).

garyneal

I'm sure my wife will be attending and will somehow be inspired. Concerning the Mayan calendar and 2012, I bet if Charles T Russell were alive today, he would probably seriously consider it as a predicter for the end of days. Just as he did the pyramid of Giza to predict 1914.

51

Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal in

my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

" this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

garyneal

My wife and I had a "Bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige. The book we covered was "Keeping yourself in God's love." This particular "Bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the Bible. Never-the-less the points presented cannot be refuted as it seemed to speak favorably of marraige and how we must stick with each other no matter what to honor God. Cannot disagree with any of that and the study went very well for everyone involved.

One of the passages of scripture that was covered was Matthew 28:19-20 and my mind immediately went to the baptism questions that the Jehovah's Witnesses use just before new converts become baptized. My wife made mention of it and I took the opportunity to discuss this matter with the JW's. For those of you amongst the JW's who aren't familiar with the baptismal questions that JW's ask of their converts you may look them up in the June 1, 1985 Watchtower (page 30). For the rest of us, here they are:

The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? (italics mine)

That second questions is of particular importance because the wording would seem to suggest that you are being baptized to an organization. Almost like your being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Watchtower organization. I pointed this out to the JW's and asked how come it did not agree with Matthew 28:19. I illustrated the absurdedy of it by presenting a hypothetical scenario where a preacher asks a new Christian, "Do you accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior and dedicate yourself to God?" Upon saying yes, the preacher would then say, "Well then by this baptism, you agree to become part of my church and identify yourself as one of us."

The elder's wife said, "Well that's what most churches do." And said it in a tone that certainly would suggest that she is not willing to open her mind to anything that contradicts their doctrine. I cannot speak for all churches but I can say that the church where I was originally baptized did not make me a member of that church and the church I currently attend stress the fact that church membership is not a requirement for salvation or for baptism. As I explained to the witnesses, I always believed that baptism symbolizes your dedication and association to the Lord, not to an organization. Being saved and later baptized marks you as a Christian first. We're not considered Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians, or Jehovah's Witnesses unless we decide to become a member of those "organizations." Apparently they rolled the membership and dedication all into one.

To all Jehovah's Witnesses who are lurking this message board, what are your thoughts on this? The elder's wife told me that they go over Matthew 28:19 during the "questioning" before the baptism. To which I replied, "You mean where you ask the 80 to 120 questions of potential new baptized witnesses?" Personally, I believe that questioning is not scriptural either. The elder said he would look into it and get back with me on the concerns that I raised.

41

Cantleave went to the meeting last night

by cantleave in

jw
friends

i have attended just a handful of meetings over the 2 months.

i went yesterday, because i had an assignment and i really wanted to see my mate talk about masturbation from the platform, knowing he would be very uncomfortable about it!!!!.

anyway after the meeting i was approached by the cobe.

garyneal

So let me get this straight, the COBE (Circuit Overseer? What is BE?) approaches you, informs you that he's heard that you have some personal problems, and offers to help. Then when you explain to him what help you need, he appears to berate you for not "putting Kingdom interest first." Just to make sure I have this straight.

Well, I do know that Jesus teaches us to "seek first the Kingdom of God" and "all these things will be added unto you." I also know that the Bible also tells us to "sanctify Christ as Lord in our hearts." The Bible teaches us to "bear one another's burdens" and of course, "not to judge" lest we be judged.

It certainly appears that this COBE made you feel guilty for needing the extra time to work so that you can make ends meet. Perhaps this COBE could've offered some encouragement for your situation, or even helped you find whatever resources you needed to help you make ends meet. Perhaps some of the other members of the congregation could've done the same. Perhaps he could've even suggested that Jehovah can still use you on this path by suggesting that we can still be witnesses for Him whereever he leads us.

At any rate, I wonder how many other Elder's and CO's needed to reduce their workload to attend to personal matters? I believe that number is many which begs the question, what gives anyone else the right to judge?

46

Do mixed marriages work? What about kids?

by greenie in

i'm new and have posted something along these lines recently on another thread, but i'm wondering, do marriages between non-jws and jws work?

by "work" i mean can they be loving and happy?

and what about kids?

garyneal

Well from my personal experience, it has worked so far but I believe it is because she was an unbaptized witness who was tired of the constant rules being placed on her at the time and I was in and out of churches and not really committed to serving God fully.

During the years we were together, she actually celebrated the holidays with me and in fact even lead the way in purchasing gifts, setting up birthday parties, and decorating the house. To me this was all old hat but she certainly took to it with much zeal. However, I did note some unusual fear she had of dying because she liked celebrating birthdays and the holidays so much. Finally, after my daughter's third birthday party, she finally decided that she had had enough and wanted to fully serve Jehovah and the Watchtower. This, of course, through me in limbo as I began to realize that I had seriously dropped the ball in terms of my dedication to God and I had to decide for myself if this religion is the "Truth" and what must I do to ensure that I had everlasting life.

During the last 6 years that she and I were together, I "studied" the Bible with JW's many times and even read a lot of their material. Needless to say, I was thoroughly confused about my own beliefs when I realized that I did not have a solid foundation for them any more. How can I pass on my beliefs to my children when I was confused about them myself. After doing much research, Bible reading (without WT material), and praying I discovered the real Truth and came to realize that they have a tendency to "teach as doctrine the teachings of men." I also believe now that much of the extensive list of rules and beliefs that they have often come from scripture taken out of context, and tend to change from one moment to the next. This places a very heavy burden on the individual Jehovah's Witness even though Jesus taught that His "yoke was light." Therefore, I do not believe that they are "in the Truth" and feel that the teachings themselves can be very dangerous to both the witness and his or her family (witnesses or not).

To your situation, all I can say is that if he goes back he will be under a heavy burden to teach your child his beliefs since he is going to be considered the spiritual head of your household. He will not fully understand the fact that God is ultimately in charge and that all things will work out to His own glory and will believe that Satan is in charge and he must work hard to combat him. If he truly begins to "make the truth his own" things will be rough for you. You really need to seriously consider this before you marry him.

Since he will never have the comfort and assurance that true followers of Christ have (especially if he thinks he has the "earthly hope") he will always constantly work hard to show himself as "approved of" in Jehovah's eyes. He will not have a personal relationship with the Father and Jesus since they believe only the 144,000 have this privelege. According to the Bible, this will prevent them from truly having everlasting life and yet they are being taught that they will have it by "exersizing faith" in Christ Jesus (but not have a personal relationship with him). This will cause him to continue to work harder in the field service, attending the meetings, and trying to win you and your children over to the "truth."

You may want to consider this before you marry him. Whether you marry him or not, pray for him that the Holy Spirit will show him the real truth and help him to turn away from this cult.

14

To understand the Bible, must we "Read between the lines?"

by garyneal in

this post goes out to any active jehovah's witnesses who are either actively engaged in or simply lurking the topics on this web site.

my wife is a jehovah's witness who is currently an unbaptized publisher hoping (as she stated as her goal) to become baptized.

needless to say, i am not and we go to different churches (hers is the kingdom hall and mine is a small community church).. anyway, this past sunday (september 7, 2009) one of the brothers gave a talk about how some people pick a church based on the fact that it seems to "feel good to them" rather than base it on whether or not they truly teach the bible.

garyneal

This post goes out to any active Jehovah's Witnesses who are either actively engaged in or simply lurking the topics on this web site. My wife is a Jehovah's Witness who is currently an unbaptized publisher hoping (as she stated as her goal) to become baptized. Needless to say, I am not and we go to different churches (hers is the Kingdom Hall and mine is a small community church).

Anyway, this past Sunday (September 7, 2009) one of the brothers gave a talk about how some people pick a church based on the fact that it seems to "feel good to them" rather than base it on whether or not they truly teach the Bible. He commented on one woman with whom he was witnessing to that she held a different interpretation about a particular Bible passage (my wife did not state which passage) than what was apparently being said by that passage of scripture. This woman went to her pastor and asked him how did he arrive at the interpretation that he taught and he told her that sometimes we must "read between the lines."

She then later told this Jehovah's Witness brother her pastor's "read between the lines" explanation and of course the Jehovah's Witness took her up on the challenge and had her reread the passages to see if there is anyway she can arrive at her pastor's interpretation from a straight reading of the text. Turns out she couldn't and of course the Jehovah's Witness told her and his congregation something along the lines of how we must accept the Bible and what it really says and not infer a man's teaching of it where it does not seem to be present.

Upon hearing this, I challenged my wife with this question. "How come is it then that when I read the Bible alone for truth, you say that I am 'leaning on my own understanding?'" She of course, immediately tabled the subject matter (primarily because she had to leave town to visit an aunt) and the subject matter has not been brought up since. Given my past experience with her on critical thinking matters like this, she is quick to change the subject or tells me that she is only learning the "milk" of the "truth." So I doubt I will get an answer from her regarding this either.

So perhaps some of the Jehovah's Witnesses lurking these topics can help. How come on the one hand Jehovah's Witnesses (like the brother who gave the talk) can say that we should accept what the Bible says as it is without "reading between the lines" and adding some pastor's or some churches interpretation but on the hand have Jehovah's Witnesses tell us that if we read the Bible alone and consider only what the text says (again like this brother did to counter that pastor's interpretation), we're simply leaning onour own understanding? Is inferring Watchtower teachings on what the scriptures are saying simply another way of "reading between the lines?"

I encourage any and all Jehovah's Witnesses to check out this link. http://www.freeminds.org/v/WTV080115Biblestudies.html

33

Does everyone else get this reaction from their JW family when discussing objections to the religion?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

when pointing out my objections to the jw religion with my wife, i have noticed a worrying trend which even after 3 or 4 years shows no sign of relenting.. after speaking calmly for an hour or so and logically pointing out my objections, my wife starts to put forward outrageous assertations about my points.

for instance, if i am refering to the fact that disfellowshipping is a form of extreem punishment & i mention the terrible effects that being d/f'd can have on people, she will eventually retort with something like "so what you are saying is that we should tolerate paedophiles, rapists & thieves in the organisation then?".

of course, i've never at any point said anything of the sort.. or if i have been overly critical of the amount of control the society wants over peoples lives, she would reply "so what you are saying is that we should all just go out & do what we want, get drunk & live an immoral life?

garyneal

I get similar reactions from my wife though I will admit it is not as extreme. I went with her and her mom to one of their assemblies for the express purpose of determining for myself what questions they asked to all baptismal candidates. Apparently, freeminds.org publishes these questions that basically baptizes them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Watchtower organization. Well, to make a long story short, these questions were indeed asked and I was in total shock and disbelief.

When I told my wife about them, she dismissed it saying that that was not what they were saying. A pastor at this church I have recently been attending told me that people who embrace error come under a spiritual blindness that only the Holy Spirit can penetrate. As I was waiting for an e-mail to confirm my registration on this website, I got another e-mail from the website I visit often (http://www.4jehovah.org) with a link that may be helpful (http://www.4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw-reach-loved-ones.php).

We should all pray for our JW loved ones and hope that God will help them find their way out of this cult religion.