Posts by garyneal

5

'Covenant' Marriages -- A new type of marriage, harder to divorce

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

as i understand it, covenant marriages are available in a few states.

they are a supersonic, superfine version of conservative marriage.

it's harder to divorce--it has to be with certain causes or agreement of both spouses.. covenant marriages have been criticized by human rights advocates as a potential tool for abusive spouses to restrict the escape of their victims.. in at least one state, the couple must receive premarital counseling and the signature of the counselor before obtaining a covenant marriage.

garyneal

I can see both good and bad in these type of marriages.

The marriage institution as a whole is a huge gamble for both spouses but especially for men. Some statistics I've heard thrown around are something like 50% of marriages ending in divorce, 70% of divorces initiated by women, and the majority of the reasons given by these women are "I'm no longer satisfied with him." Not abuse, not even irreconcilable differences. Therefore he gets booted out of his house, loses access to his kids, and has to pay child support until the kids turn 18 and, in some cases, lifelong alimony to the spouse.

That said, no fault divorces do offer protection for the spouses who find themselves in a bad marriage and want out and covenant marriages can be viewed as a potential return to the pre-no fault divorce days where spouses (usually women) find themselves trap in an bad marriage. However, I agree with JeffT that these type of marriages would be annulled by a good lawyer who will undoubtedly find a legal work around that will be set as precedent.

My answer is to simply do away with the whole institution of marriage as a state institution. Let the individual churches perform marriages as each of them sees fit but only allow for private contracts between individuals that are enforceable similar to other types of private contracts. Since these marriage contracts care more about the property than the marriage (whether private or state imposed) such a marriage license is really nothing more than a piece of paper that has nothing to do with life long commitment between the two parties.

To answer your question, I'm not aware of any dubs who signed up for it and I doubt a practical thinking dub would sign up for it. I see this as something that the more conservative fundamentalist evangelical Christians would sign up for, particularly those who are part of the quiverful movement.

109

The Confederate Flag

by Simon in

the latest controversy over the confederate flag just sums up to me the state of dysfunction that exists in american society.. in summary: a white supremacist nutter shoots 9 black people dead in a church.

he's clearly inspired by the messages of others which the confederate flag is often a symbol of.. it seems like a no-brainer to remove it.

not only isn't it removed, it isn't even lowered at all as a mark of respect.. and of course now there are the people who want to defend their right to have it.

garyneal

Viviane

When I see someone flying the flag, I absolutely know everything I need to about that person.

That sounds rather prejudice so let me rephrase it in ways that may get my point across.

When I see someone who does not love Jehovah, I absolutely know everything I need to about that person.

When I see someone who calls himself an atheist, I absolutely know everything I need to about that person.

Look, I get it. The confederate flag is associated with a war that has been associated with slavery. Whether rightly or wrongly. But to make a blanket statement like yours ignores everything about the kind of prejudice that everyone on this board has experienced in one form or another.

We run the very risk of becoming no different than the religious institutions and other hate groups that we speak out against simply because they are prejudice to anyone who is different from them. Have you heard of that ridiculous atheism plus movement, they are so much like a religion in their own right that it is nauseating.

109

The Confederate Flag

by Simon in

the latest controversy over the confederate flag just sums up to me the state of dysfunction that exists in american society.. in summary: a white supremacist nutter shoots 9 black people dead in a church.

he's clearly inspired by the messages of others which the confederate flag is often a symbol of.. it seems like a no-brainer to remove it.

not only isn't it removed, it isn't even lowered at all as a mark of respect.. and of course now there are the people who want to defend their right to have it.

garyneal

Zoos:

For the most part, I think mainstream black AND white folks couldn't care less whether that flag lives or dies. It's a non-issue that flares up amongst the "extremists" once in awhile and usually drags the rest of us reluctantly into the battle. I THINK I am sensing that correctly. Those of us who don't really care one way or the other, I THINK, would like to just see the flag go away so we can be done with the stupidity.

I think snugglebunny answered that one wisely as follows:

If we get rid of something every time it gets hijacked by nutters and extremists, then we can say goodbye to the German National anthem, the Union Jack, the Premier League, God save the Queen, 10 green bottles (10 German bombers) and Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (whales! whales! bloody great fish are whales..)

Today it is the flag, tomorrow something else. It is TOO EASY to scapegoat symbol, whether you think it represents racism or not, rather than think critically about the whole race situation. Seriously, is it just me or has anyone else noticed how there seems to be a lot more reports of racists white on black violence appearing lately (and so close to a national election too). Did our whole country just all of a sudden become more racist? How come the black on black / black on white violence isn't getting reported as much?

109

The Confederate Flag

by Simon in

the latest controversy over the confederate flag just sums up to me the state of dysfunction that exists in american society.. in summary: a white supremacist nutter shoots 9 black people dead in a church.

he's clearly inspired by the messages of others which the confederate flag is often a symbol of.. it seems like a no-brainer to remove it.

not only isn't it removed, it isn't even lowered at all as a mark of respect.. and of course now there are the people who want to defend their right to have it.

garyneal

Village Idiot: if you can't see the distinction between the two statements, then there's no point in discussing this further.

I agree, especially since calling people who like to fly the confederate flag a bunch of racist bigots is the "in" thing to do right now.

109

The Confederate Flag

by Simon in

the latest controversy over the confederate flag just sums up to me the state of dysfunction that exists in american society.. in summary: a white supremacist nutter shoots 9 black people dead in a church.

he's clearly inspired by the messages of others which the confederate flag is often a symbol of.. it seems like a no-brainer to remove it.

not only isn't it removed, it isn't even lowered at all as a mark of respect.. and of course now there are the people who want to defend their right to have it.

garyneal

Viviane:

But, on the bright side, anytime I see someone flying, I know that I already know everything I need to know about that person. Think of it like them voluntarily putting on the dunce cap.

I am sorry you feel that way and I would have to agree with cappytan. I think it is too easy to 'go with the crowd' and just call it out as a symbol of hate when only the hate groups actually do this. TOO EASY. I am glad we live in a republic and not a democracy. When I see someone flying the confederate flag I am thankful that we have the freedom to do so, even if it means that others might be offended. I don't prejudge them as stupid.

174

The Bible is NOT Error-Free

by FusionTheism in

for many christians, the bible is viewed as the 100% error-free, perfect book straight from god, where every single word was carefully chosen by god for a reason.

but, usually, when you have a discussion on the topic, these christians will end up saying that only the original copies written directly from the hands of the prophets and apostles were error-free, and all manuscript copies since then are subject to copyist mistakes and other errors.. since zero original copies are in existence, how do we know the originals were error-free?

why should we think the originals should be error-free to begin with?

garyneal

Do you have an example of the Bible intentionally lying?

Viviane

But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.

Genesis 3

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” 2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; 3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” 4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 22

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

---

So who told the truth, Jehovah or Satan?

https://youtu.be/RI0sA6nyQKI?t=52s

17

Does This Mean JWs No Longer Point the Finger at Child Sexual Abuse in Other Religions?

by steve2 in

those who still attend meetings will be better placed to answer this question.

since the conti case - but likely some years before it became more widely known in ex-jw circles and beyond - there appear to have been no watchtower or awake news snippets on child sex abuse in the churches of christendom.

also, do rank and file still talk to householders about the churches of christendom's cover-ups of such abuse?.

garyneal

> Then, if the WBT$ really believe in Jar Hoover, they should be quaking in their boots

Thank you punk of nice. They are a religion that is every but as guilty as the religions they speak out against.

Pot, meet kettle.

26

Wife wants a Family Study after the special talk...but initially refuses Bible only study.

by garyneal in

my wife asked me to attend the special talk with her because she wants to attend something like this as a family and feels that she "enjoys worshipping together" as a family.

i have not been to church for at least a year and have pretty much abandoned the practicing of my faith but i can remember how i used to want to have a church going family so i obliged.

i feel kind of apprehensive about doing these things because she wants the kids and i to be on our best behavior and has even fussed at me for playing tablet games during other talks.

garyneal

It saddens me to think of otherwise good marriages having to deal with this mess over whos interpretation of what reads mythology.....is more accurate.

I don't care about interpretations, I was just wanting to read the Bible as is. That's what began my deconversion though I was not expecting it to also happen to her.

26

Wife wants a Family Study after the special talk...but initially refuses Bible only study.

by garyneal in

my wife asked me to attend the special talk with her because she wants to attend something like this as a family and feels that she "enjoys worshipping together" as a family.

i have not been to church for at least a year and have pretty much abandoned the practicing of my faith but i can remember how i used to want to have a church going family so i obliged.

i feel kind of apprehensive about doing these things because she wants the kids and i to be on our best behavior and has even fussed at me for playing tablet games during other talks.

garyneal

You are of course living proof that without the GB's direction you will just end up being a born again atheist hybrid who will probably cheat on her one day.

LOL Well I never quite had my "faith" put so succinctly. You're right in that she feels she will wind up like me. The irony is that she was heading there first until she became a born again publisher.

26

Wife wants a Family Study after the special talk...but initially refuses Bible only study.

by garyneal in

my wife asked me to attend the special talk with her because she wants to attend something like this as a family and feels that she "enjoys worshipping together" as a family.

i have not been to church for at least a year and have pretty much abandoned the practicing of my faith but i can remember how i used to want to have a church going family so i obliged.

i feel kind of apprehensive about doing these things because she wants the kids and i to be on our best behavior and has even fussed at me for playing tablet games during other talks.

garyneal

She is their birth mom, Giordano.

I recall a pastor making the same scenario regarding the Bible vs Watchtowers/Book of Mormom/Writings of Ellen G White, etc..