It would make it tough to research, say the Declaration of Independence. Or to read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. Or to study the Crusades. Like it or not, religion is a big part of our history, so to block religion is to hide our past, an act as fraught with peril as any other atempt to re-write history.
GLTirebiter
JoinedPosts by GLTirebiter
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28
GodBlock, a new web filter that blocks religious content. Stuff like this makes me wonder about the Babylon the Great doctrine.
by miseryloveselders inhttp://www.godblock.com/.
i mentioned before that i don't agree with the wt's interpretation of who babylon the great is.
however, i can't deny that people are more open today about being closed towards religious interference in their lives.
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Is it really so that some people here became Catholic after leaving the Borg?
by gubberningbody inwow.. unbelievable.. .
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GLTirebiter
The Watchtower relishes the image of being a pure congregation, a "showcase of saints." The church considers itself to be the "hospital for sinners."
Quandry, that line isn't original with me. I can't remember who said it, so I can't give the author due credit. All I contributed was applying it to the WT.
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My sucky situation
by brotherdan inhi guys,.
sadly some of them had been in bethel for 5 - 10 years and were still cleaning toilets.. after about 2 years of it i couldn't do it anymore.
i always knew something wasn't quite right with this organization.
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GLTirebiter
Welcome brotherdan! I'm sorry you've endured such an ugly turn of events.
If it's not too late, get into counseling: professional, properly trained, unbiased counseling. That excludes the elders; they cannot be unbiased advisors in a case of "faithful" vs. "apostate" partners. Many cities offer low cost or no cost group sessions for better marriages, take advantage of these if you can't afford a private counselor.
Then allow me to offer some practical advice. Document everything, and I do mean everything even the least bit out of the ordinary. I'm talking about pictures of the damaged property, copies of any emails or FB messages she has seen or sent to you, notes on phone calls, financial records, anything you may need to defend yourself against what she may accuse you of. Use a memory stick or flash card to keep copies, and keep that copy out of her reach. She has declared theocratic war against you, so do what you can to defend yourself. Also check into where you can legal advice and representation--I'm not saying to do anything to provoke her, and I'm in no position to say if you need to hire a lawyer right away. But even if it's not at that point, be prepared to do so quickly if she decides to take you to court. It's hard to get organized when you're under time and emotional pressure after being blind-sided with divorce papers.
I'm glad to see you've read Ray Franz's books, and that others have recommended Steve Hassan. But also check the marriage articles at freeminds.org (if you haven't done that yet), and especially this article about child custody issues. I hope you won't have to face the worst of what's described there, and by being aware of those underhanded tactics you (with your lawyer) can do much to head off the ugly conflicts the Watchtower's "Preparing for Child Custody Cases" pamphlet seems to promote. Nobody wins in a bitter custody dispute: it's bad for you, it's bad for her, and it's really bad for children.
I wish you the best possible outcome, whether that may be together or separated.
(edited to clarify what pamphlet I referred to)
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Has anyone ever ask a householder to keep their Bible study secret from their spouse?
by wasblind ini was told of one incident, where a pioneer said that she had trouble with one householders husband, because he was hiding the literature and did not want his wife to study with the jw's so she incouraged the householder to study in secrecy.. .
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GLTirebiter
You are using the wrong Bible.
That's your opinion. My opinion is that I used an actual Bible translation, not that corrupt transliteration by Fred Franz and his cronies, who had a not-so-grand total of one year of non-biblican Greek, no Hebrew, and no Aramaic language education among the entire lot.
Specifically, I used the New Jerusalem Bible, ISBN 978-0-385-49320-8, which you can read on line. This is an updated version of the first English version of the Jerusalem Bible, a translation based on multiple manuscripts in the biblical languages (Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic), including manuscripts not available until modern times (Dead Sea scrolls). The highly qualified translation team had extensive experience and expertise in the biblical languages, as well as the literary background to maintain the spirit of the text, not just the literal words. The translators deliberately avoided using the Vulgate, Douay-Rheims, KJV, or various inter-linear editions based on them--it is a genuine new translation, a reliable one, using modern language and idiom.
In other words, it really is what the pathetic NWT falsely claims to be.
In your Revelation scripture it doesn´t even say AFTER the thousand years were ended.
Yes, I was careful to transcribe that accurately. The word "after" is not in the text. That word is, in fact, superfluous: the phrase "... the thousand years had passed" conveys exactly the same meaning!
verses 14,15 which DO NOT EVEN MENTION TORTURE
This is the same burning lake as verse 10, where "torture will not come to an end, day or night, for ever and ever." Same "lake of fire", same torture, different beings condemned to that eternal punishment. If you wish to read the scripture honestly and respectfully, you must read them in context. Each verse relates to the other verses in that chapter, each chapter relates to the other chapters of the book, and each book needs the other books to accurately complete God's message. Do not read corrupt translations, do not pick and choose some verses and ignore others so that the meaning is lost. As it is written in Revelation 22:18 , "This is my solemn attestation to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book; [19] if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in the book."
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Has anyone ever ask a householder to keep their Bible study secret from their spouse?
by wasblind ini was told of one incident, where a pioneer said that she had trouble with one householders husband, because he was hiding the literature and did not want his wife to study with the jw's so she incouraged the householder to study in secrecy.. .
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GLTirebiter
First you said
It is not in the bible.
Then you refer to an apologist tract discussing places where it is in the Bible. Unfortunately, your apologist takes snippets of verses, ignoring parts that don't fit his narrative:
At Revelation 20:1-3 we note, "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and shut him up, and set a seal upon him...". Here we have the devil "jailed" in the bottomless pit unable to "get out".
Let's read all of verses 1-3:
Then I saw an angel come down from heaven with the key of the Abyss in his hand and an enormous chain. [2] He overpowered the dragon, that primevial serpent which is the devil and satan, and chained him up for a thousand years. [3] He hurled him into the Abyss and shut the entrance and sealed it over him, to make sure he would not lead the nations astray again until the thousand years had passed. At the end of that time he must be released, but only for a short while.
Continue reading this chapter. The devil returns, and we learn his fate in verses 9 and 10:
They [Gog and Magog] came swarming over the entire country and beseiged the camp of the saints, which is the beloved City. But fire rained down on them from heaven and consumed them. [10] Then the devil, who led them astray, was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their torture will not come to an end, day or night, for ever and ever.
The lake of fire is a place of eternal torture. The same "burning lake" is the place of "second death" for those who are not recorded in the book of life, as we see in verses 14-15:
Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and every one was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. This burning lake is the second death; [15] and anybody whose name could not be found written in the book of life was hurled into the burning lake
Thus the second death is tied to eternal torture, in that same lake of fire. The torture is real, but beyond human reckoning. This is not the fire of our physical world, but being consumed by fire is as close as human words of the time could describe the worst of all possible torments: eternal separation from god's presence. Thus the biblical phrase "hellfire": an imperfect, frightful, human description of an unimaginable spiritual fate.
It would make Jehovah unfair, by his own standards, and not a God of mercy and love.
Does it? Look again at verse 14, "judged as his deeds deserved". Those who chose the Lord's way will be in his presence, and those who chose to live without the Lord also have their wish granted. It is our choice to make, not God's, judgement is checking the record to see what our choice was. There is nothing "unfair" or "unloving" about impartial judgement. That we sinners even have a chance to be in his presence is the ultimate expression of God's mercy, grace and love.
With that, at this late hour, let us agree that we don't agree and return to the main topic of this thread.
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GLTirebiter
Mythbuster,
Does it involve a large explosion, a massive collision, or falling from great height?
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WT advice about unbelieving mates or DF'ed family members
by OnTheWayOut inthis is a revival of an old thread: http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=8144.0;topicseen.
i revived it as i was looking for it to show to someone else.. it seems they wish they could legally kill people's own family members.
since they cannot, they encourage believing mates to prostitute themselves with the unbeliever- trade sex (marital due) for financial support.. here's the older wt article that reveals "their" attitude toward unbelieving or df'ed family members:.
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GLTirebiter
The marriage partner would render the marriage dues ... in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted
So, the Watchtower thinks marriage to an unbeliever is prostitution?
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Has anyone ever ask a householder to keep their Bible study secret from their spouse?
by wasblind ini was told of one incident, where a pioneer said that she had trouble with one householders husband, because he was hiding the literature and did not want his wife to study with the jw's so she incouraged the householder to study in secrecy.. .
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GLTirebiter
It is not in the bible. You won´t find Trinity, Hellfire etc.
Pay attention, this will be on your final examination!
Psalms 21:9
You will hurl them into a blazing furnace on the day when you appear; Yahweh will engulf them in his anger, and fire will devour them.
Matthew 5:22, 29-30
But I say this to you, anyone who is angry with a brother answer for it before the court; anyone who calls a brother "Fool" answer for it before the Sanhedrin; and anyone who calls him "Traitor" answer for it in hell fire.
...
[29] If your right eye should be your downfall, tear it out and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body thrown into hell. [30] hand should be your downfall, cut it off and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body go to hell.
Matthew 18:8-9
'If your hand or your foot should be your downfall, cut it off and throw it away: it is better for you to enter into life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. [9] And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out and throw it away: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into the hell of fire.'
Revelation 14:9-10
A third angel followed, shouting aloud, 'All those who worship the beast and his statue, or have had themselves branded on the hand or forehead, [10] will be made to drink the wine of God's fury which is ready, undiluted, in his cup of retribution; in fire and brimstone they will be tortured in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
Revelation 20:14,15
Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and every one was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. This burning lake is the second death; [15] and anybody whose name could not be found written in the book of life was hurled into the burning lake.
Revelation 21:8
But the legacy for cowards, for those who break their word, or worship obscenities, for murderers and the sexually immoral, and for sorcerers, worshippers of false gods or any other sort of liars, is the second death in the burning lake of sulphur.
I'll stop here, the point is made. There are many scriptural references to hell, just look beyond the Watchtower's list of Approved Bible Verses.
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I have finally did it and I will graduate from college with my BA degree in Sociology.
by booker-t inwell everybody i told you all a few years back how hard it was to be in college at the age of 40. i thought my hair was going to fall out trying to keep up with the young college kids in math and science.
but now 3 years later i will be graduating this november with my ba degree.
i just love school and will be applying for graduate school to get my ma.
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GLTirebiter
Congratulations! It's never too late to make the best of your life. Good luck in grad school.
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Is it really so that some people here became Catholic after leaving the Borg?
by gubberningbody inwow.. unbelievable.. .
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GLTirebiter
What makes Catholicism appealing? From my POV, the chuch teaches the strong moral standards some seek with the Witnesses, but with more conventional Christian doctrine. It respects scripture without the restraints of word-for-word literalism (thus the church accepts many Bible translations as valid, if sometimes incomplete: Douay-Rheims, RSV, JB, NAB, KJV, pretty much anything but NWT). Scripture readings during mass are passages read in context, and clearly separated from the commentary (homily, aka sermon). The worship service includes worship, not just a pep talk and sales pitch. They back up their words with the largest non-government charitable operations on Earth.
Remember, I was never a Witness myself. I was lapsed from the church for about twenty years when I married a lasped JW woman. She soon returned to the Kingdom Hall. Seeing the WTBTS in action, close-up, was an eye-opening contrast for this "unbelieving mate". After we divorced, I took stock of myself and where I was going, what I was doing right and where I was falling short. I took my time, evaluated the options, and after about a year concluded that the church I left in my youth remained the best fit for me. I guess you could say my Ex finally did succeed in converting me, just not the way she intended!
Returning was a non-event compared to what a DF'ed Witness endures. I started showing up, first sporadically, then every week. I re-learned the teachings, read the Bible, and my when the decision was made I spent a short time in the confessional. No outside pressure, no committee meeting, no interrogation, no probationary period, just forgiveness and a fresh start. After fourty years away, it was "Welcome Back!"
The Watchtower relishes the image of being a pure congregation, a "showcase of saints." The church considers itself to be the "hospital for sinners." I went back to where I belong.