Posts by cheerios

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

What kind of emperical data would you find convincing?

preferably something not so steeped in controversy. by that i mean not something that can be taken 42 different ways to sunday by anyone who looks at it and then disagreed on by all, twisted by some, and misused by others.

sometimes i think that the uneducated faith (note: that's not the right connotation but i'm not sure what the right word is) that was possessed by people in bible times was apropos to their specific time period. we live in an age of skepticism, reason, and philosophy where education is abundant (or should be), philosophy is prevalent and mankind can build off each others ideas. when people put forth ideas, the first thing that thinking people do is say: is this true and if so, why? the whole 'god exists because it says so in a book but he refuses to prove it because you have to have faith' argument is not going to win over many people. not in this day and age.

so that is what i struggle with. i would like to believe in a god, but i have a hard time reconciling empirical observation with just a want.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

tammy, i understand what you mean; however, your argument is conjecture. it is not evidence. nor is it objectively provable. as to the issue of whether jesus was real or not - i don't think your answer 'answers' the question. because someone has not proven that he did or did not exist using empirical data is not evidence to either point. it just means that there isnt enough evidence to say whether he did or didn't. i know that you and ps and others feel that he did. there are many others that feel that he didn't. but to use the bible to prove that someone existed is a conflict of interest. just because the bible says so isnt proof. please be assured that my comments are in no way derogatory to you (or anyone else for that matter). i just do not see it.

sometimes i wish that god/jesus/whoever would just definitively say: okay here i am and this is what i want you to do ... in a way that leaves zero doubt. it would still be our choice to follow it or not.

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

Not the accuracy of the bible. The truth of Christ.

Well, the issue is that because of the false stylus, we really can't KNOW if he is the truth.

exactly. why would i want to put any trust into someone that we dont even know if he existed? okay, so what it says in the book about him is somewhat nice (some of the time), but that doesnt mean suddenly i'm going to consider him a real person worthy of any merit or obedience. and it certainly doesnt mean i'm going to start talking to him.

perhaps i'm just jaded because of my experience with the borg. now i tend not to believe that there is a great and powerful oz.

that's my problem with that. can you help me beyond that?

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

Well in THAT case Jesus was nothing special as his message ws basically the same as messages thousands of years older than him.

We've had this discussion before ;)

I said test his message against love. Not that love was his sole message - even though all the law hinges on the love God, and love neighbor commandments. Because if you love your neighbor, you do no harm to him, and in fact you do good to him.

No reason others never discovered this truth - because it IS a truth.

But faith was right there alongside love in Christ's message, as well as the promise for anyone in any nation, tribe, culture to be with him as his brother and a son of God with Him.

Tammy

i just dont get it. i do not see what that has to do with verifying the accuracy of the bible. it's either true or it's not. it's nice and all but what does 'love' have to do with anything?

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

i dont understand. how is 'love' the answer to testing the words of the bible for veracity? if that's true, then the beatles are the second coming ... (j/k) ... but i really do not understand that answer. it sounds a bit like a party-line towed by bible-thumpers ... spoken by many but understood by few.

24

Further Education and the Special Assembly Day

by eyesthatsee in

i had the misery recently of attending the sad.. the bethel speaker looked and sounded like the usual corporate businessman after your money.. during his main talk, he praised a recent bethel member who left his college (aka university) course early to pioneer and join bethel.. that followed experiences from window cleaners, unemployed, parents home-schooling (aka child abuse - it is a basic human right to be educated) their kids and those baptised as children (youngest was 10).. the brainwashed dubs applauded every ruined life paraded on the platform.. these bethel speakers have been around long enough to know exactly what they're doing - they are evil men, ruining peoples' lives, breaking up families and masquerading as holy men.. their time will come when they face god - too late for the many ruined by their filthy lies and false hopes.. sorry to sound bitter, but to my shame i had a part in this cult as an elder.

what part of my brain did i lose to not see through this rubbish?.

better late then never though.

cheerios

i knew several witless families that home-skooled their kids. those kids grew up to be practically illiterate adults. i saw the curriculum - it wasn't a bad one. the parents were too busy pio-sneering and el-duh'ing to help their kids get a decent education.

@chickpea: that's great that you are an exception to this! it's too bad that more parents to not take their responsibilities more seriously, as you did.

45

If Jehovah God Chose Russell & The Bible Students Why Did He Give Them So Much Inaccurate Information?

by minimus in

jw
friends

hmmm.

either jehovah god (the perfect god) didn't give that information.

it never was the "truth" in the first place..

cheerios

I was told many years ago when I wondered that same question that we couldn't handle all the information in the bible at one time.So Jehovah just let them know a little at a time,there hearts were looking for truth..How would you explain it....

omg! the ONLY explanation is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

jack nicholson is jehoober!!!

214

Soldiers of Jah

by cofty in

i would like to propose an ethical dilemma for those who believe in the divine inspiration of the bible.. in the following scenarios i am not asking you what you would have done but rather, what you hope you would have had the courage to do.. scenario 1. you are camped on the east side of the jordan waiting for orders to cross into the promised land.

moses is nearing the end of his life but he has some unfinished business to take care of before he hands over to joshua.

he announces that he has had an instruction from god to take revenge on the midianites before he dies.

cheerios

i would have to answer, cofty, that those soldiers (if any of them were thinkers) would have to comply or leave in a real hurry (as they would know that they would be killed for not complying). for us to try to make a comparison today i dont think works. simply because we have choices that those men did not have. so it's not a fair comparison. at least imho.

so here is question (stemming from reading some of the off-topic replies): if god gave us life, then chose to pretty much abandon us and leave us to our own devices, then gave us this controversial book (that doesnt really definitively answer anyone's questions) to help us along, then what right does he have to expect anything of us? seems like a classic setting-up-for-failure scenario to me. but that is just my opinion.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

cheerios

wow this is still going on? *grabs popcorn ...

@djeggnogg: dude, you write way too much. if this where the craptastic moan-ass-tree skool, you'd be dinged for not getting to the point ... and going waaaaay overtime ... bullet points please ... i might actually make it through one of your posts if you were to summarize ... know what TL;DR means?

back on topic .. i think what amazes me the most is that the gibbering booty thinks they can come up with some publication, surround it with an aura of mystery, and then expect it to *NOT* be circulated ... wow, really? i mean, REALLY? oh well, it's their m.o. must be nice to live in the spiritual paradise ... errrrrrr ... dark ages

what do you suppose would happen if hundreds of thousands of people decided to download and distribute it at the same time? there might be a few lawsuits but so much attention would be drawn to it, do you think they'd pursue the matter? by that point, i would imagine the media would get involved ...

24

Further Education and the Special Assembly Day

by eyesthatsee in

i had the misery recently of attending the sad.. the bethel speaker looked and sounded like the usual corporate businessman after your money.. during his main talk, he praised a recent bethel member who left his college (aka university) course early to pioneer and join bethel.. that followed experiences from window cleaners, unemployed, parents home-schooling (aka child abuse - it is a basic human right to be educated) their kids and those baptised as children (youngest was 10).. the brainwashed dubs applauded every ruined life paraded on the platform.. these bethel speakers have been around long enough to know exactly what they're doing - they are evil men, ruining peoples' lives, breaking up families and masquerading as holy men.. their time will come when they face god - too late for the many ruined by their filthy lies and false hopes.. sorry to sound bitter, but to my shame i had a part in this cult as an elder.

what part of my brain did i lose to not see through this rubbish?.

better late then never though.

cheerios

what burns me up about home-schooling is the quality of the education that is available. while the material might be okay, the parents that have to deliver that material are questionable at best. teaching is a skill, one that has a scientific method behind it. that's why teachers have to go to college for awhile - to learn how to teach.

sorry but window washers that attend the craptastic moan-ass-tree skool are NOT teachers, do NOT learn pedagogy or any other teaching skill, and are NOT qualified to give their children the state-mandated education. they are fully qualified at ruining people's lives, however.

just my two pence