Posts by lovelylil2

The bible has 2 authors to it. It was written by men as they were born along by Holy Spirit. So you can say God is the author as well as men. The way I look at it is this; The prophecies were definatley God because Paul said "no prophecy springs from private interpretation" He goes on to identify it as coming from God.

The rest of the bible while inspired of God does not claim to be prophetic and is not infallible. We need a balance view of the bible because many of its writings are not the direct word from the mouth of God. I know many want to believe it is and teach it is but it simply is not. I am thinking for instance the psalms, proverbs, etc. While these books teach literal truths about God they were written by men while under inspiration. Not men acting as God's secretary writing his words from his mouth. But whatever pertinent information God wanted man to know, he brought it out thru men.

But in additon to prophecy the bible contains histories, allegories, poetry, prayers, illustrations and moral stories to be read and understood as such. While all of it contains the wisdom of God, we need to have the proper view of it. Most fundamentalist religions do not. For whatever reason God chose imperfect men to reflect his thoughts in the world. this is one of the mysteries of God.

About God himself, You and I are both agreement that we really do not know who or what God is. I do see him in the written word, the bible but see him in nature and love and life in general. Sometimes my best spiritual moments are just looking up at the moon and stars in awe and wondering about God. No one can really fully understand GOD. So again, we agree on this.

Whatever your path. I do sincerely hope you are at peace. Lilly

21

All You Apostates are EVIL READ!! (LONG RESPONSE)

by tjlibre in

this is in response to dubr post.

welcome to the board dubr.

i whish you and your wife success and happiness in your new path.

lovelylil2

DubR,

Very sorry to hear about all you have been through. I had a very tough life too. Not raised in the WT, my parents were Catholic. Both of them were addicts and my father was very abusive emotionally and physically with the five kids. He also tried to sexually abuse me starting at a young age. I was able to fend him off. So I do empathize with others who had a tough upbringing also.

Anyway the JW's have a very narrow view of the bible and take everything literally. Most balanced Chrisitans (and yes there are a few of us out there) do not do this. We do not really even know if our current understanding about how we interpret the bible is fully correct or not. There have been many changes in laguage, culture, etc. in the past 2,000 years. But for some of us, myself included, our belief in God is not based on wether or not we correctly interpret scripture. Even Jesus told the Pharisees "you examine the scriptures daily because you think by means of them you will be saved, but you refuse to come to me". The Christian faith is based on a personal relationship with God thru his the life and teachings of his son Jesus Christ.

You know, the JW's are not the only ones to abuse people in the name of religion. My parents who were Catholic told us kids that if we did not obey them we would burn in hell. I remember my father once telling me how awful I was (probably becuase I would not have sex with him) when I was only 7. He told me he was going to slit my throat while I was sleeping and I was going to hell that very night. I did not sleep for two whole days. For me the only thing that put my mind at ease was praying to God to please not burn me. You cannot imagine how much fear I was in. I am 40 years old and suffer post traumatic stress becasue of my Catholic upbringing. Being a witness was a piece of cake for me compared to having fear of burning alive forever. Thankfully now the Catholic church has changed this.

But my point being, people are spiritually and emotionally abused in the name of religion all the time. And it has absolutely nothing to do with God. It has more to do with our sinful nature and the fact that man is always trying to dominate and control others. God did not invent religous institutions and niether did Jesus. In fact Jesus placed himself radically outside the religion of his day.

I feel this way personally, just because I had a terrible childhood, a bad experience in TWO religions and am not sure entirely if I understand every word in the bible does not mean I have to become totally athiest and give up on God. Nor does anyone else have to. These things are simply not his fault although since atrocities are committed in his name it is understandable why he is blamed. But for me, If anything, my experiences have only strenghtened my faith and it may just be because of how I view things.

For me in my darkest moments when I was afraid and had no parents to rely on, when I prayed and was given a feeling of calm, that was God. And during the times I felt totally lost in the world and like no one loved me and looked around and saw the beuaty all around me and realized yes, someone does care because he made all these beautiful things for me, that was my walk with God. And other times I wondered why I was put on earth anyway when most of my life I had to suffer, instead of resenting God, I felt blessed to just be alive. Because even in adversity I have been able to enjoy much beauty in my life too. For me it was God who gave me this optimistic view and spirit and I felt his presence many times during my darkest moments. But still can I fully explain exactly what or who God is? Probably not.

I am glad I believed in a God and felt he cared because if not, I would have killed myself a long time ago.

For those who simply cannot believe in a God, believe in these things then; love, charity, friendship, family, goodness, kindness, happiness. And hopefully you will have peace in your life no matter what happens. Lilly

35

Since Leaving The "Truth" Have You Been Naughty or Nice?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised in it.

for the most part i was an exemplary jw.

i'm a very social fun loving person.

lovelylil2

I am mostly nice with a bit of naughty sprinkled in for good measure!

19

Religious songs were not allowed to listen to

by Lady Lee in

well the holidays are coming and there all those songs that will be on the radio and tv that we weren't allowed to sing or even listen to.. but there are other songs that weren't holiday songs.. my favorite is hallelujah by k. d. lang.

i cannot get that one out of my head this morning.

i heard a different rendition the other day and kept hearing kd in my head thinking that is where the singer would go.

lovelylil2

Hi Lady Lee,

I love Amazing Grace!

When we were still in tower my daughter who was about 10 at the time had a little friend over from the kingdom hall and they were singing songs together. Anyway she burst out in song with Amazing Grace and the other little girl immediately told her she is not allowed to sing that. I was in the other room and overheard.

Next thing my daughter came in and asked me if that was true. I told her no I thought it was a very acceptable song. During the next meeting, the little girl's mom gave me song music cd by a JW singer telling me that this was so I could have "appropriate" songs for the kids. The CD is called the promise by Kent Morrill. I actually still have it, my kids always liked the "dragon" song on it. Anyway this thread reminded me of this experience.

I listen mostly to only Christian or religious music so I have lots of favs, here are a few My family loves the song "our God is an awesome God" sung by Kirk Franklin. His rendition is fast paced with a gospel beat. Of Course "the Dragan" by Kent Morrill. I also love "joy to the world" And as far as a non religious song one I love sung by Christian artist is "cindarella" by Stephen Curtis Chapman. He is one of my fav christian artists but does do some non religious music. I had this song played last year at my daughter's sweet 16 and she danced to it with her dad. There was not a dry eye in the house.

Peace, Lilly

14

Suddenly - JWs are coming at me out of NOWHERE!

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

i have had 2 really nice experiences running into jws recently, and just wanted to share that even though most are still 'stuck up' and make the choice to shun me - there are still some really good ones out there that don't take the org directions on dfing seriously - and those are the ones i respect and continue to hold in high regard:.

1. my buddy that was in my circle of 'friends' when a jw texted me out the blue tues night.

i didn't remember him (saved only his 1st name in my phone) and just could not figure out who it was.

lovelylil2

Glad you had those experiences, it makes you feel good doesn't it, to know some of your old friends do still care? I have Witnesses all the time from my old congregation say hello on the street and ask me how the family is. And they are still active too. One sister asked if my family was happy and I said yes. Then she gave me a big hug and said she was glad to hear it.

Our family was always known to be very spiritual. So it was a shock when we changed halls (we were in the first one 10 years, since we got baptized) and then left a year later.

Most still shun us but those are the ones who were never our friends anyway. There are so many ex jw's from our old hall in our area its not funny. I think at least 40% of the congregation bailed in the last decade. Maybe even more. I counted about 40 to 50 ppl and several entire families. Most were in for 20+ years. My husband and I now have a lot of support in our area from old JW friends. Peace, Lilly

50

New sex offender in my hall

by Iwonder17 in

just found out that there is a sex offender in my hall.

the "brother" that i was with said " the brothers will make sure that he is not put with any kids in service".

wtf !!!!

lovelylil2

The only thing the WT and local congregations are concerned about is protecting their image to outsiders. These people are "wolves in sheeps clothing" and "white washed graves".

Most of the elders I knew were sick minded WT drones who had not one spiritual bone in their whole body. Wish I had a nickle for everytime I was out in service with an elder and he couldn't find a scripture in the bible to save his life. All they can do is peddle magazines. And they may look good on the outside but are full of all vile things inside. I mean how can you NOT have a heart and want to protect the littlest, most helpless people in your congregation? These are little children who do not have a voice in the world.

I say its time for 20/20 or dateline to do another story on pedophiles in the WT!

66

Did you Exit the Witnesses Gradually - Or Exit Suddenly - Your Reasons ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

i thought it would be good to discuss it to understand what caused some of us to exit suddenly, or some to exit gradually .. myself , i had been in 44 years , had mentally had doubts for years before exiting - but injustices by the elders and my doubts about the " generation " doctrine led me to exit suddenly one night before a meeting.

the elders pissed me off , i went to my seat, picked my books up and walked out - never going back.

so what is your story and reasons ?

lovelylil2

flipper,

After 3 months when not one elder spoke to him about the situation not even asking him if he needed any spiritual encouragement he decided to leave. He wrote a very short note saying only "I no longer want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses".

Our marriage is good but it took a while to recover that is for sure. I feel bad in a way because it did hurt my hubby spiritually. He did not have a personal relationship with God only with the organization. I came out with faith intact, but he struggled a good few years. I can honestly say the past year (year 6) has been his best. I try to encourage him all I can.

As far as church, I can take it or leave it. I attend an online church right now and occasionally attend another one. For me I am more concerned about my personal walk with Jesus then attending a man made church. I hate the fact that there are so many denominations out there. Personally I think we should be known by no other name that simply Christians. But on the other hand, I am not against anyone attending a brick and mortar church as long as you understand that the real "church" are the body of believers in Christ, not the building or denomination. And I do believe we need to gather together with fellow believers for support and encouragement.

As for my husband attending church, he is totally against church organizations in any way. He simply will not attend any. Just recently I invited him to listen to the online church with me so that he will feel he has some spiritual upbuilding. He is used to being told he should be doing stuff and what to do, in the WT he was a MS and always had talks, etc. Now he doesn't know what to do with himself as far as spiritual activities. I asked him recently to help me with a ministry I will be starting up soon and at first I thought for sure he would say no but he said he would like to help. I pray for him to be spiritually healed and try to upbuild him in the faith as I would with anyone else. He is slowly advancing in the "real truth".

As far as my two teens, they were very hurt spiritually and emotionally, having lost all their friends they knew since birth. And for now are not interested in church either. I do not push the issue with them at all. I am happy they still believe in God because believe me I would understand if they didn't. I really feel it has been harder on them having lived a lot of thier childhood in the tower. They were 91/2 and 11 1/2 when we left, in since birth. I think what did help was even though my hubby was a strong company man, you know what I mean? I was always more balanced. We used to argue a lot about this but I let my kids have more freedoms then most other JW parents did. Being raised on the outside helped. So I cannot fault my kids for their feelings in any way. And they are both very loving and kind children who would never hurt anyone. And I am proud of them for the way they are recovering. Peace, Lilly

21

All You Apostates are EVIL READ!! (LONG RESPONSE)

by tjlibre in

this is in response to dubr post.

welcome to the board dubr.

i whish you and your wife success and happiness in your new path.

lovelylil2

Olin,

The Jews would use the word "son" when it could actually be a grandson or great grandson. There were no words in their language to distinguish "son" "grandson" etc. They would all be listed as "son", The generations that were closest to and thus pertinent to proving Christ's lineage are in the bible intact.

The bible does not contradict the age of man. Only fundamentalists christians do. Other Christians have no problems accepting that man is much older than that. Lilly

21

All You Apostates are EVIL READ!! (LONG RESPONSE)

by tjlibre in

this is in response to dubr post.

welcome to the board dubr.

i whish you and your wife success and happiness in your new path.

lovelylil2

Libre,

You raised some interesting points. This is how I see it from the perspective of a more balance Christian as compared to a JW

Man is only 6,000 years old - The bible does not teach that man was on earth only 6,000 years. This is a misunderstanding because the geneology records are not fully complete in the bible. With even a modest study of the bible's geneological records you will find most Bible scholars agree that whole generations were left out because if not, the books will be way too long for anyone to read. The bible includes only those generations pertinent to either 1)a point God is trying to make, 2)an interaction God had with a certain person or peoples or 3)those needed to prove the geneology of Christ. Also when the bible uses the term "father" or "son" in the geneology records it could actually be referring to grandfather or grandson, or great grandfather or greatgrandson. So we need to have a much broader view of the geneological records.

The old testament is ridiculous - probably to a non believer yes it would seem that way. Also most of the OT was written for the Jews. It is their historical information and stories and they know how to interpret it. people need to realize the Jews do not take all the bible stories as literal. The best thing I ever did was purchase a Tanakh, it will really open your eyes to what we call the "old testament"

About Egypt - the bible uses the term Egypt to mean two things -1)the actual place Egypt 2)spiritual bondage of believers. Used in the latter case God calls all his people out of "Egypt" i.e. spiritual bondage.

The global flood never happened - well yes and no. Too large a subject to answer here. But keep in mind there are variations of views on this by Christians, not just the narrow fundamentalist one.

Got to go to work now but feel free to pm me anytime if you want to discuss these matters further.

Peace, Lilly

edited response