i have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
Thanks sylvia,
Been very busy going on with life. I still lurk on the board to see whats new but do not have time to post. But today I am home sick from work, recovering from a sinus infection so I thought I would pass some time and chime in.
I am going to start a new thread about marking my 7th year out of the tower in a few minutes, feel free to join me over there. But first, I need a cup of coffee! Lilly
i have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
Hi Jeff,
I agree with Tammy's thoughts. I cannot understand why you would want to tear down a Christian's belief because you are no longer a christian. That is exactly what the Watchtower does and teaches its followers to do. Which is to tear down others for the way they believe. Maybe you feel christians are against you becuase you no longer are one? I for one have no hard feelings towards you at all. And I like Tammy would never mock a Muslim, Jew etc. You should probably examine why you continue to do this to christians. Perhaps you have unresolved bitterness towards the WT?
About debating the flood, noah, jonah, etc. I would like you to consider this point. There are many christians who do not interpret the old testament stories as literal but see them as stories pointing to Christ. Many (including myself) believe the ENTIRE bible is about Jesus. That is the theme, not the kingdom of God like the WT teaches.
Here are examples, The story of the ark and Noah points to Christ as the savior (he is the ark), Jonah and the whale represents jesus being in the grave 3 days, Abraham and Isaac story about God asking Abram to sacrifice his son represents what God would do in the future with his Son. Hence Abram is God, Isaac is representative of christ. The sacrificial lamb God provided Abraham is Jesus too and the sprinkling of blood on the doorpost so the Angel of Death passes over the jews reprsents Christ's blood and his power thru it to save us from death. There are many others too, these are to name a few. Whether these stories are literal is not as important as the fact that they are being used to teach LITERAL truths about Christ.
There are some good book studies out there about the Types and shadows in the OT that point to jesus. Have you ever read anything like this?
About Jesus being a real person, I would like to ask you if you ever spoke to a practicing jew? I have a friend in my area Rabbi Joseph ( a female) who gives wonderful talks at Christian churches about the Jewish faith and she once told me it is laughable how some former christians go on to deny even the existance of jesus Christ when EVEN JEWS believe he existed. They believe he was a Rabbi, Lived during the biblical times, had a following of people, taught many of the things recorded in the NT and that he was a wise Rabbi. They also believe he was put to death for blashemy for claiming to be the son of God and that is where they disagree with Christians. To say Jesus never existed as a historical person even if you believe he is not God is one thing but there is ample evidence he did exist and it is recorded in non christian publications. However, I won't hijack this thread for another discussion on that topic as it is something that has been discussed many times on this board. Actually it has been discused to death if you ask me.
Jeff, whatever spiritual journey you are personally on, I really do wish you peace. We have all been spiritually abused by the WT and have had enough name calling, put downs, and people tearing down our beliefs to last a lifetime, wouldn't you agree? So I wish you luck. Please do not become a bitter person. I am sure you are a nice guy but sometimes you do seem a little angry in your posts. Any anger you have I think may be misapplied to Christians who are innocents and should really be directed to the WT organization. An organization that by the way is absolutely NOT Christian and continues to prove that fact by their fruits.
Peace, Lilly
for creating such a stupid unloving hateful religeon.
id do the same thing to rutheford but three times as bad!
!.
I have to agree with RR on this. Rutherford is the one who deserves the punch in the face. If Russell were alive today, he wouldn't reconize the WT organization of today. And he would probably have been df'd by it anyway.
Not that I agree with Russell's teachings either. And some of the WT teachings are leftovers from Russell's day like Jesus being Michael, only 144,000 going to heaven and a few others, but most of the Bible Student groups are much more loving then the WT. And like RR said, they have no disfellowshipping procedure if you disagree with them. Also the majority of them celebrate Christmas and birthdays. Peace, Lilly
a hard cover copy of steven hassan's "releasing the bonds" and a huge cofee mug that says "exjw university ---established in 1914" came in the mail today from jwn poster outatlast.
and he wasn't even my secret santa.
thanks, oal.
I am going to order a few of those mugs. Thanks for the link. Lilly
when i walked away from jw's i thought that i would find other religions more comforting, less controlling.
what i found was more of the same.
religion acting like a 'prophet'.
Ri,
You can gather together with like minded believers (even other Christians) in many other ways besides belonging to an organized religion or church. In fact when Paul wrote those words there was no particular place where believers gathered, like churches of today. Christians met in private homes. To say we must have a certain building, denomination etc. to gather is not true. It is a way for religion to build up their members and their $$$. That is all. Don't feel pressure to join any particular group.
I listen to worship services online and when I feel like it I go to church with a friend. But I am not a member of any religious institution nor do I plan on becoming one. I am a free agent in Christ alone.
One last thing; for Christians the "church" is simply the body of Christ and all those "in him", no matter what denomination you belong to. We ARE the church, we do not need to GO TO a church if we choose not to. Peace, Lilly
do atheists celebrate christmas, the celebration of christ's birth?.
if so, why?.
I've read all the comments so far and this is my take on it;
I celebrate Christmas as the day Christ was born because I am a Christian. I have friends who no longer believe in God or religion and they enjoy celebrating this holiday in a strictly secular way. Personally I have no problem with either.
I do not believe someone who is an athiest is a hypocrite if they decide to celebrate Christmas in the strictly secular sense. Nor do I think Christians should be judging them either.
The Apostle Paul tells Christians that some people attach more meaning to certain days then others and that each person must decide what meaning THEY will give the day. So if someone observes the holiday as a secular day with or without Santa Clause and they use the day to spend time with family and friends, that is great for them. And if we Christians decide to worship Christ on this day, go to church, spend time with family and friends, that is great for us.
However you celebrate or observe this day, enjoy it! Peace, Lilly
when i walked away from jw's i thought that i would find other religions more comforting, less controlling.
what i found was more of the same.
religion acting like a 'prophet'.
Jeff,
I am a christian but am also anti religous organization. To me Christianity is a faith and not a "religion" in the sense that most people think it is. I follow the teachings of jesus who really was anti religious establishment. Personally I feel that men use religion to dominate other men. So I agree with you in a way, that all religion today is false. We were born to be free and use our own consciences. Men gets into trouble when they try to put God in their own box and keep him all to themselves. Christians are notorious for doing this. Lilly
the society (and others) love to quote job 26:7 where it says that "[god] suspends the earth over nothing" and isaiah 40:22, where it speaks of "the circle of the earth".
they use these scriptures to boast about the incredible scientific accuracy of the bible, proving god had a direct hand in everything written in it.. the trouble is that elsewhere in the scriptures, opposing views are put forth explaining then-unexplainable physics and geographical notions.
one is job 26:11: "the pillars of heaven tremble.
very interesting thread.
sunday, may 18th was my big day.
i decided to go to beth sarim, home of the princes and ancient worthies.
so i loaded up the truck and rolled out, wondering what do you do when you meet someone so ancient that the roman empire was a mere twinkling in jehovah's eye.
The pics are beautiful. Wish I owned a house like that! You look good, I love your shark shirt. You look like a tourist though. Peace, Lilly
my one disclaimer is this: to my theistic friends, i am not saying the following to be disrespectful of your beliefs.
however, since i don't believe as you all do, it is only honest of me to present this.. i bring this up because i have been caught up lately in debates that i normally don't involve myself in.
i have been left a little drained and confused as to why i allowed myself to argue a point till its beaten to a bloody pulp.
The thing I am learning is this; when someone asks me a Q about my faith, I really have to ask myself "what is their motive in asking this?". If they are really interested in Christianity that is one thing but if they are just trying to tear down my faith or tell me how stupid it is, then what is the point in even addressing thier Q's.
If I am happy being a Christian then so be it. Why not just leave it alone. If someone else is happier not believing in a God then that is their perogative. I am not trying to convert anyone on this board to christianity and I can tell you right now, there is no way anyone is going to make me an athiest.
So again, I think we have to try to discern the persons motives in asking the Q. And if we think it is just to argue or rehash the same old thing all over again which there is no real answer anyway, because I can't prove 100% God exists to a nonbeliever and they cannot prove 100% God doesn't to me. So it is just an excercise in futility.
That is where the advice given here to just say "no thanks, I am not interested" is such good advice. And that goes both ways for those who believe and those who do not. Peace, Lilly
