Posts by jayhawk1

7

pictures of our little tree

by Mulan in

jw
friends

here are photos of our tiny little christmas tree.. .

after we got some tiny ornaments, it looked more like a christmas tree.. .

marilyn (a.k.a.

jayhawk1

I had a tree just that size too! This spring it is going in my yard.

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

jayhawk1

Let me put words into You Know's mouth, sort of like the Watchtower Society does for the Almighty God.

"Well the Watchtower Society is sort of a prophet, in a sence."

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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26

not been posting on this board too long, but started my ex jw internet excursion with the philia group back in 1995 (thanx alanf:-)).. not wishing to poke anybody in the eye but i'm curious at those mails i've read where some of you guys are hanging in on there (from where i sit) under the jw tag.

by that i mean you've clearly identified you've not attended meetings, have no intention of going to meetings, maybe (albeit under the jw rules)in a d/a or d/f situation, but laying low.. geniunely interested in why - i got d/f by banging on the elders door (metaphysically speaking) and sitting through a judicial to get out properly.. maybe 33 years as jw straight off (18 years under hillary step formula:-))skewed my thinking, but just curious....

jayhawk1

Belbab,
Are you saying those who just "fade" are just like the ones that remained in Jerusalem when it was under siege the second time? If it is, could you please expand on your thoughts?

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

jayhawk1

Oh okay You Know, whatever you say. So that whole 1975 thing was just a simple misunderstanding. Oh yea, what was that about in the 1940s when the Society said just as soon as WWII ended so too will this system? Oh yea, what was that about the Generation that saw 1914? Tell me You Know, what about Judge Rutherford saying that 1925 would be it? Speaking of 1914, wasn't that when C. T. Russell said the end would be? Didn't C.T. Russell say that 1919 would also be the end. There also was some speculation about 1984 being the year, because it was 70 years after 1914.

No, I never imagined to be clever, I felt like giving you some hell. I left you some questions on another thread, care to take a crack at them?

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

jayhawk1

JT, man I can't believe I missed the obvious,

"The Watchtower appropriately is a prophet of sorts"

Well You Know, since the Watchtower Society is just a prophet of sorts, and they say they represent Jehovah. Perhaps Jehovah is just a God of sorts. Again, You Know, why would the Almighty God want his name on an orginization that has never had a prophecy it has issued forth come true?

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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19

"What If The WT Told You to...

by Francois in

jw
friends

... get your gun out and go to any church of christendom on a certain sunday a few weeks after the publication date of the watchtower that was making the demand, and open up on the congregation?".

that question was asked of active jws in good standing by richard hickman, whom many of you know, when he was doing research for a book he was writing.

strangely enough, the most common answer went something like this:.

jayhawk1

LOL@E-man,
You know the Society has dreamed of doing Kent. After all, they have a picture of him falling into a deep hole during Armageddon. Watch your back Kent!

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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It is a bad day, when I can't spell "of".

207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

jayhawk1

Quote from You Know,

I have not sought to absolve JW leaders from responsibility. On the contrary, I have, on this thread, as well as on other occasions, pointed out, albeit not in great detail, how Jehovah will hold his servants accountable for their errors. The difference between our positions is that you point to Watchtower errors and jump to the conclusion that they can't possibly be God's chosen ones, while I am aware of our errors I am also aware of Jehovah's means to deal with such things.

Why would Jehovah use men that make a mockery of his name?

According to the Christian Greek definition of a false prophet it is limited to that. Although I also pointed out how Peter and Jude foretell that false prophets are predatory men who arise from within the true Christian organization. No one can successfully deny that the scriptural profile fits apostate Jehovah’s Witnesses perfectly.

Peter and Jude do fortell false prophets arise from the Christian orginization. Now I have three questions.
1) Who of us are making predictions, other that YOU?
2) Who says that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the true Christian orginization other than themselves?
3) Again why would Jehovah use an orginization that makes a mokery of his name?

There are different meanings for the word prophet, and the Watchtower appropriately is a prophet of sorts in that they are authorized to declare the message of God’s kingdom as found in the Bible. That’s entirely different from the sort of Old Testament prophet who spoke words directly for God. That’s the type of prophet that Deuteronomy is talking about. And since the nature of false prophets is to deceive others, their methods of deception are not always so obvious. That’s why the Christian writers help us to further identify how Satan’s operatives work now. And as I pointed out the criteria for recognizing the true and the false is different for Christians than it was for the Jews under the Law. That’s because no one is directly inspired by God to utter his words now as they were in Bible times.

More questions for You Know.
1) On what date was Jehovah's Witnesses ordained by God to be his prophet? After all they have in their own literature admitted they are not a prophet.
2) Regarding true and false prophets, what prediction has the society made that came true, other than WWII will end some day? Everything on Earth comes to an end at some point, so that is not a prophecy.

Watch carefully, young children, and you will get an education. Here’s where the apostate’s legerdemain comes in, but if you observe closely it is possible to see how a skilled and clever deceiver adroitly uses the sleight of hand techniques in his operation. Did you see it. You have to be quick-eyed. Let’s slow it down here a little and play it again. Notice how the apostate cunningly redefines what a prophet is by inventing words to place in someone else’s mouth. Remember, the apostate uses counterfeit words, so you have to be on guard. Read again his statement “these words are from God” but whose words prove to be merely their own understanding, is a false prophet. Such a false prophet is quite different from someone who says the equivalent of "here is my interpretation of the Bible and so I think that these words represent God's thoughts". Such a false prophet is quite different from someone who says the equivalent of "here is my interpretation of the Bible and so I think that these words represent God's thoughts". Did you catch the subtle flick of the wrist? If not read the statement again until it becomes clear. A.F. is basically saying that it’s okay to offer an inadequate interpretation of the Bible as long as one doesn’t say it authoritatively. This is of course a nonsensical statement. And, most importantly doesn’t even fit the Old Testament criteria for identifying a false prophet. Keep that in mind as we go to his next statement.

Okay, one quick question.
The Old Testament is mainly for the Hebrews, as opposed to the New Testament which is mainly for the Christians. That aside, I see nothing wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses making opinions on the Bible. However, when they say this is what Jehovah the Almighty God means, they are putting words in God's mouth. Now that would be fine by me, if what they say is accurate. Now for my question, if what they have said in the past is inaccurate, and it is, why would God use them now? God hates liars, and has said in the Bible that the light and the dark don't mix.

Here again A.F. runs far afield in his redefining what a false prophet is. Remember now, the Law of Dueteronomy gave the Jews a simple means for ferreting out a false prophet. If his words didn’t come true than that meant that Jehovah didn’t speak them. That criteria can no longer hold true in the Christian era for the simple fact that God speaks to no one. And so any claimant of divine inspiration is automatically disqualified. The words of God as recorded in the Bible are the sole basis for our message and they cannot and will not fail. However, A.F. would have you confuse divine inspiration with divine authority. They are two separate things. It is different in the Christian organization for the reason that Christ assigned his followers to be his spokesmen and ambassadors to the world. That means Jesus gave AUTHORITY to his followers to speak and teach in his name and in the name of his Father. That’s the position that Jehovah’s Witnesses claim. No one claims to be inspired to speak words from God such as the Hebrew prophets of old. That’s totally unnecessary. The Bible is our only source of inspiration. As Revelation says: “The bearing witness to Jesus is what inspire prophesying.” That so-called prophesying doesn’t mean we are inspired to speak fresh words from God’s mouth, but that we preach about the many prophecies that pertain to all aspects of Jehovah’s purpose in Christ. So, while the Watchtower has authority over God’s household, that doesn’t mean that they are inspired to unerringly interpret the Bible. If that were true why does the very prophecy that authorizes a faithful slave also call for his punishment for his failures?

You must be reading special literature from the Society, because they have in the past claimed that their literature is God inspired. For other things you have said about false prophets, I will leave out, because you become redundant.

However, there is an obvious paradox here that must be solved. If Jesus wanted his followers to recognize the sign of his presence and to preach the message that God’s kingdom was near then why would he say not to follow those who were saying that the ‘due time has approached’ since the very existence of such false messiahs would indicate that the time had in fact approached? The answer is in the timing. According to Matthew’s account Jesus gave a more detailed warning about false prophets and false christ’s and when they would appear. True, Matthew’s account records that Jesus also warned that false prophets would appear before and during the entire interval of his presence, but, the most dangerous period for Jesus’ followers would be during the period of the tribulation. Luke’s account doesn’t really specify the time when such ones would arise but Matthew’s account definitely situates the arrival of the false christs during the tribulation period, which of course is yet future. That’s when many would arise claiming to be the Christ and saying that the time had arrived, for whatever they were leading people to believe was going to happen.
Jesus specifically warned that the deception would be so masterful that if it were possible that even his own chosen ones would be taken in by the deception. Jesus merely instructed his followers to categorically reject all such claimants for the simple reason that the real Jesus was not coming back physically. The point is, that those whom Jesus foretold would appear saying: “I am he,’ and, ‘the due time has approached.” would arise at a point during the tribulation. Therefore, we can say with certainty that Jesus was not talking about the true sons of the kingdom whom he dispatched to declare that God’s kingdom was near as evidenced by the signs.

Regarding this long quote, I have this question. False prophets are just one of the signs, and it is true we have one already Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, what about the rest of the signs of the end? It seems nothing has changed so far. Economies go up and down, like they always have. People go hungry due to greed, like always. False prophets come and go, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

Indeed, the doctrinal basis for the Watchtower’s authority is found later on in that prophecy where Jesus foretold the appointment of a faithful slave to oversee his household. So, it is a lie that Jesus has no one on earth during his parousia that he has authorized to speak for him. The evil slave better fits the description of a false prophet due to the fact that he too has a position of authority and uses his insider position to mislead others. Judging by the power that charlatans like Ray Franz, and others, have over apostate JWs, it is evident that that’s the case.

You Know, your post does not go from one point to another, it keeps going round and around. We are back to the who is a false prophet thing again. So I have another similar question.
1) Who has made prophecy, Jehovah's Witnesses or their apostates? If you say apostates please cite more than one example of an apostate prophecy that many people believe to be true. In other words, don't give me speculation.

That’s because they blaspheme God by denouncing those whom God appointed over his household. Remember, Satan’s criteria for God’s servants and Jehovah’s are two different things entirely. Satan is the Accuser who accuses us night and day before God. Jehovah is not nearly so harsh in his judgments. And those two points of view are reflected in the contrast between faithful witnesses and apostate dubs. The bottom line is, that just because the faithful slave may err or misinterpret some prophecies, of have premature expectations, does not mean that he does not have an appointment over God’s household. That is pure apostate bull manure.

I see you are speaking in behalf of Jehovah yourself. I think God is a big enough boy to speak for himself. Where is the Satan Bible if he is accusing Jehovah day and night. Sounds like you have made Jehovah out to be a big baby. Regarding Jehovah not being harsh in judgements, that is why you say he wants to distroy 99.9% of the people on Earth, and that is not harsh. I could say more, but why bother.

Jesus hasn’t condemned us. Apostates are the accusers and those who falsely judge and condemn their former brothers by twisting God’s word to suit their own ends. You are merely passing off your own jaundiced opinions as if they were the Judgments of God. By all accounts you, and all apostates, are unspiritual and animalistic men who seek to separate Jehovah’s Witnesses from their leadership, wreck their faith, and exploit them for your own wicked purpose. According to the apostles’ description that makes you and your ilk the real false prophets and deceivers of the mind.

First, where is the evidence that Jesus said one way or the other about Jehovah's Witnesses being his orginization?
Secondly I don't run around looking to pick a fight with Jehovah's Witnesses, they come to my door looking to start one with me. The only reason I post to you, is because you come here. Agian, how can we be false prophets, because don't you have to prophesy in order to be a prophet?

Another quote from You Know

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another thesis. I cannot read another 12 page dissertation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL You people are ridiculous. Apostates accuse me of not answering their questions, but when I go to some length in addressing and refuting their challenges, then the complaint is that it's too lengthy to read. You are apparently very determined to deceive yourself. / You Know

Don't generalize, because I did read it all. Perhaps if your posts did not circle and you addressed one topic at a time, your posts would not be so long and people would not complain about how long your posts are. Have a good day You Know.

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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10

Home Is Where The Heart....... Isn't!

by ISP in

jw
friends

.......thats how a typical jw home is.

the jw home can be a curious place.

in my earlier years i pioneered with a brother who would eat his dinner, typical diet of beans on toast, out of the pan...you would get a plate!

jayhawk1

You never know about how far a hamburger restaurant reaches. When I went to Bogota Columbia last year, they had everything including a Burger King. Only they called it Whopper King instead.

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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10

Home Is Where The Heart....... Isn't!

by ISP in

jw
friends

.......thats how a typical jw home is.

the jw home can be a curious place.

in my earlier years i pioneered with a brother who would eat his dinner, typical diet of beans on toast, out of the pan...you would get a plate!

jayhawk1

Beef stock cubes? Damn, I guess that gives the old Wendy's commercials a new meaning of "Where's The Beef?"

For the non-USA people Wendy's is a fast food hamburger store.

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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23

What are you doing New Year's Eve?

by larc in

jw
friends

what will you be doing new years eve?.

my wife and i will stay home, watch the big doings on tv, and at midnight, my wife will take a frying pan and a big spoon, go to the front door, bang hell out of the pan and yell at the top of her voice, happy new year.!.

hey, we live on the edge, don't we??

jayhawk1

I tried to talk the soon to be Mrs. Black into going to Jehovah's Witnesses houses and welcoming them to another year in this old system. She declined, so I guess we will still watch a movie together.

"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

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