Posts by Awen

26

How do you know when the Governing Body speaks for itself, and when it is supposed to speak for Jehovah?

by dgp in

in the catholic church, the pope is considered "infallible" when he speaks ex cathedra.

that is to say, he is not infallible when he speaks about things that don't have to do with religion.

for example, he may say whatever he pleases about economics, but no one will hold that catholic economists will have sinned against god if they consider that the pope is wrong.. the important point here is that the pope is thought to be infallible only when he speaks about matters strictly related to the church.. the wikipedia has this:.

Awen

To my knowledge the GB has never claimed to be infallible. However the insist that their "New Light" must be adhered to as if it were. Disloyalty to the GB (be it questioning oficial policy or doctrine) is considered by them to be disloyalty towards God. Yet in the Bible there were many cases of those who questioned the established authority and were considered loyal to God.

Christ said that his "yoke was kindly and his load was light". Does the actions of the GB mirror this statement or does it seem to be in opposition?

Are they like the Pharisees of Jesus' time who won't even lift a finger to help others with their load?

Personally I do not believe that the GB speaks for God, nor have they ever. Jesus said that no one could come to the Father except through himself, yet we are supposed to believe that God would use a group of men who constantly contradict themselves.

There is no place in the scriptures where God ever changed His teachings. Nor did his Son. Jesus may have added to what was already established, but he never abolished the old teachings. Yet repeatedly this has been so with the GB.

Clearly the GB serves themselves and are afraid of losing their authority (much like the Pharisees who sought Jesus' death) and so they enforce harsher and more strict rules. There seems to be little choice for them in this matter for where would such aged men go? They have only their holdings in Brooklyn and New York and without them would be on the street (much like the ones they cast out in the 80's). So rather than owning up to their lies and taking the chance that they would lose their power. They instead tighten their grip all the more. But history has shown what happens to such ones. It may take a while but every despotic regime falls. Even the GB will fall and along with it the entire WTBTS organization.

58

So why

by bushido8000 in

it has become very apparent to me very quickly that this forum is dominated by ex-jws.

i have many questions and topics to present but i first want to know who i am presenting these questions and topics to so i have 2 questions that i would like as many of yall to answer as possible.. .

question 1: did you leave the organization out of the blue or were you first disfellowshipped?.

Awen

My story is similar to what has already been said. I had a "worldy" friend who was a better Christian than the JW's ever thought about being, even thoug he wasn't a Christian at all (not until much later). I had begun partaking a little before this time and had much confusion about the true nature of the organization.

He was homeless (along with his girlfriend) and I allowed the two of them to stay with me. The Elders insisted I put them into the street because of what "might" happen again (I had committed forbication with her and told the Elders). My friend forgave me because I told him the truth of the matter and we are still friends to this day. But because I felt guilty for my wrongdoing and it wasn't my friend's fault I felt it would be wrong to put both of them into the street. So I refused. I also told the Elders that I had been having doubts about whether the organization was the Truth or not. I also told them that nothing they could say would change my mind and that disfellowshipping me was their only choice.

I knew I had done wrong by my friend, but I felt throwing them out would have been an even greater sin. I spoke to my landlord about the issue (he is my friend's uncle) and it was his opinion that I had made the mess and should live with the consequences. So I was disfellowshipped and lost every friend I ever had except my "worldly" friend.

Eventually I lost my home as well as the girlfriend was angry over me telling her boyfriend about what had occurred (she had lied to him whereas I had not) and she convinced the landlord to put me out. I stayed with my parents for a time, ended up getting in an auto accident and lost my license then moved away. I looked all over for a different "truth" and it took me many years to realize I had the Truth in Christ Jesus albeit not within a man made organization.

My life is much better now, I still have my friend, Christ and a great relationship with them all.

In hindsight I would have simply faded and not told the Elders what happened simply because we are to confess our sins to God, not to man.

But I learned many important lessons and am happier because of it. I have had relatively little contact with the JW's in my area.

10

Would you be in a relationship with expiration date??

by Dudu in

people usually start relationships with the posibility of lasting,,,,, my question is, if a person would die/travel/ get too sick, in a short period , lets say 1 or 2 years, would you still date him/her?.

Awen

I think I see what you're getting at. Why is it JW's serve God with dates in mind? Why are they so obsessed with the date of Christ's return?

If you truly love someone then you should date them until your last breath or until the relationship ends (something that may not be in your control).

At least you have done your part.

Same thing with any relationship. Your nurture it and love it more than yourself. IF the relationship still ends despite all the effort you put into it then it's time to move on and find someone who will appreciate you for yourself and not what you can give them (without them giving much in return. Sounds a lot like the WTS).

24

"Satan's Star" Re-examined

by JWStruggle in

i put on my blog recently an article reviewing the evidence regarding whether the star of bethlehem was guided by god or satan.

as we are well aware, this is a "pet point" of the witnesses and assists the wt viewpoint with regard to christmas and all things "pagan".. .

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/09/satans-star-re-examined/.

Awen

@ JW struggle. You make some very good point here and totally demolish the WTS teachings on the "star".

33

Jehovah DOES hear and answer our prayers...........

by punkofnice in

.........the same way pink spotted unicorns do skip in my garden!.

now i'm not saying a god does or doesn't exist but the brand name god of the watchtower certainly doesn't exist.

he is the magic imaginary friend in the sky that jws talk to telepathically.. .

Awen

The model prayer also seems to be more of an affirmation of one's beliefs to God. We are continually declaring our allegiance and reaffirming it when we use the model prayer. Consider the following"

Our Father who resides in Heaven -- We're making a formal distinction between the God of the Bible and the other "gods" that exist.

Holy is Thy name --We're recognizing that by being "Holy", His ways are just. "I Shall Prove To Be What I Shall Prove To Be" is His name and any purpose associated with it will come to fruition.

Let your Kingdom come, let Your will be done --We're telling God that we are looking forward to His kingdom coming upon the earth and His will being accomplished.

On Earth just as it is in heaven --Self explanatory

Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our sins, in the same manner that we forgive others-- Consider the Egyptians who came out of Egypt with the Hebrews during the Exodus. They were the first to complain about the Manna that was provided for them rather than being happy they had anything at all. They didn't appreciate the gift. Unfortunately the Hebrews joined in with the Egyptians and complained as well. Had they not done so, it's likely they would have made it to the Promised Land much quicker. So all we ask of God is what we need to sustain life for this day, not for tomorrow or next week, but for today. The part about forgive us for our sins reminds us of Jesus' words at Matthew 5:23, 43-48

23 "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Both scriptures show that we must forgive others first IF we want God to forgive us. There may be things we have forgotten about that God is still waiting for us to reconcile. By not forgiving others freely of their sins, we impede our relationship with God. Now something about forgiveness here should be noted. Just because you forgive someone that does not mean you allow yourself to be hurt or abused by them. You're simply forgetting the trespass and not holding on to your anger. But you're also showing love to yourself and the other person by not allowing them to do the same thing to you again. How are you showing love to them? If you never let it be known to another that you do not like their actions, how are they to change? How is a child to know right from wrong if a parent doesn't tell them? Same with our friends and associates.

I think Shelby has covered the rest pretty well. I just wanted to emphasize that to me the Model prayer is more of a personal declaration of faith than anything else. It's still a prayer (communication tool), but albeit a much more personal one. Within it's context is everything we ever need ask for.

Morgan.

Your servant and slave of Christ. May the peace and love of God guard your heart and mental powers

269

The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

there have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.

i guess this will be another one.

there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.

Awen

I have a few questions about Evolution that has thus far not been adressed.

If we all evolved from single-cell organisms (that reproduce assexually) then how did we get to where we are today?

Evolution would imply that an organism uses the most direct and simplest means to evolve.

Sexual reproduction in humans for example is quite complex so why do we reproduce this way and not assexually as Evolution says the first single cell organisms did?

Why is the fertilized egg not attacked by the mother's immune system since it constitutes a foreign body (containing male chromosomes) before the placenta is "created".

I've looked all over the internet for an answer to this and thus far have only come up with more questions.

Where did males and females actually come from?

What is the evolutionary origin of sex?

How could nature evolve a female member of a species that produces eggs and is internally equipped to nourish a growing embryo, while at the same time evolving a male member that produces motile sperm cells?

How is it that these eggs and sperm conveniently evolved so that they each contain half the normal chromosome number of body cells?

A wikipedia article on the Evolution of Sexual Reproduction and competing theories.

Evolution of Sexual Reproductio

Immune Tolerance and Pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutherian_fetoembryonic_defense_system_(eu-FEDS)_hypothesis

13

If You Had 5 minutes to Create Doubt

by roxanesophia in

i regularly encounter jw's i knew while studying and it kills me that they would likely not listen long enough for me to tell them the truth about the truth.

my mother says "don't even bother.

it's like finding out you were adopted.

Awen

I like nateb's (peace to you) comment about asking the JW's if they are happy.

I would then remind them how in Romans 11:4-7 Paul relates the account of Elisha speaking to YHWH and how distressed Elisha was about the leaders seeking to kill him for his speaking out against them. YHWH telles Elisha that 7,000 people in the nation had also not bent the knee to Baal (modern day Governing Body) and that God intended to preserve them, not because they in any way deserved it, but because of God's own mercy.

Likewise there are those today who have spoken out against the GB and are not condemened by God. In fact it is they whom God intends to preserve and not the leadership who have strayed away from him.

I would indicate that they know what I mean without me speaking of it. The doubts they have in their hearts about the Org and it's leadership. We can serve God and be happy without a human intermediary for Jesus clearly said ""no one comes to the Father except through me".

70

Were any of you anointed?

by TimothyT in

did any of you feel that mystical force telling you that you were of the anointed class?.

what did it feel like?

was it real?

Awen

@ Shelby and Tams

8

Question about "The Kingdom"

by TimothyT in

we have just come back from our second visit to the baptist church.

again, it was fabulous.

since being disfellowshipped, i have only wanted two things: a place to be accepted and a place where i can have good upbuilding bible instruction and discussion.

Awen

@ Perry

I'm not going to argue with you.

Heresy (from Greek α?ρεση, which originally meant "choice") is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma. It is distinct from apostasy, which is the formal denunciation of one's religion, principles or cause, and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion.

I guess I'm a heretic then. So be it.

Also I think you entirely missed the point. Jesus is clearly speaking to his followers, ones who would already have received the Holy Spirit. So by not letting the HS become active in their lives (by accepting it's direction) they would never know themselves and further they would never know Jesus who poured out the Holy Spirit upon them.

Thus they were in poverty.

70

Were any of you anointed?

by TimothyT in

did any of you feel that mystical force telling you that you were of the anointed class?.

what did it feel like?

was it real?

Awen

@ Perry. Sorry dude I quoted you exactly how you typed it. You didn't ask for a time period (past, present or future), you made a generalization. Not my fault you didn't proofread, but no worries I wouldn't take your money anyhow.