Posts by maninthemiddle

16

Help with a question. Need W-4/1/2010

by maninthemiddle in

this question is in the now famous 4/15 watchtower in the do you rememebr section.. i want to know what the source article said, because i can hardly agree with this statement as written.

i am assuming this is in relation to the "translation" of the nwt, but it is misleading to the point of fiction.. can anyone look at the 4/1 watchtower and tell me what is says?.

.

maninthemiddle

I would like your opinion on this. While this (watchtower) article grossly understates the struggle the canon went through, and how as we know it today it came to be. It sounds like in a bare metal description this article is correct. There were a group of followers that held the grouping of scriptures as we know it. Maybe from a purely historical aspect with rose colored glasses this may not be accurate? now there were many, many councils that determined to keep this grouping intact, there were also as many that argued against it. I think part of the intention of the article was to dispel the notion that it was chosen at the council of Nicea.

This apologist article seems to say the same thing, while showing there was much struggle going on.

http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-bible.html

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament ( 1 Timothy 5:18 ; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7 ). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture ( 2 Peter 3:15-16 ). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches ( Colossians 4:16 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:27 ). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired

2

Remember The Sabbath

by whereami in

jw
friends

any jews out there?

is this stuff true?

please tell me this is bs.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6mjsbixcdi.

maninthemiddle

Also, you got to check this video out too. At least get through the dishwasher part @ about 1:15

http://www.beliefnet.com/Video/Faiths/Judaism/Faith-in-the-Family/Tour-Of-A-Kosher-Kitchen-Appliances.aspx

2

Remember The Sabbath

by whereami in

jw
friends

any jews out there?

is this stuff true?

please tell me this is bs.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6mjsbixcdi.

maninthemiddle

This is very true.

I found this article from Wired Magazine, here is an excerpt. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.11/kosher.html

Ottensoser works for Star-K, a nonprofit that certifies food products as kosher. Of several hundred kosher agencies in the world, Star-K is the only one that certifies technology, and Ottensoser is the firm's only appliance consultant. That makes him the world's lone kosher geek, the man tasked with certifying that the movement of every electron in an appliance is sanctioned by God.

Since he was hired seven years ago, Ottensoser has helped nine companies design Sabbath modes for more than 300 types of ovens and stoves, and dozens of refrigerators. When the feature is enabled, lights stay off and displays are blank; tones are silenced, fans stilled, compressors slowed. In a kosher fridge, there's no light, no automatic icemaker, no cold-water dispenser, no warning alarm for spoiled food, no temperature readout. Basically, Ottensoser converts your fancy - and expensive - appliance into the one your grandma bought after World War II.

11

I need digital camera suggestions. Thank you!

by asilentone in

jw
friends

i am thinking about buying a new digital camera with usb cord.

any suggestions?

i do not want to spend alot of money on it.

maninthemiddle

If you get anything in the Canon Powershot series you won't be dispointed. Best Buy has them in the store, you should go check them out. They start at about $100 and go up to almost $300 dependng on the features.

16

Help with a question. Need W-4/1/2010

by maninthemiddle in

this question is in the now famous 4/15 watchtower in the do you rememebr section.. i want to know what the source article said, because i can hardly agree with this statement as written.

i am assuming this is in relation to the "translation" of the nwt, but it is misleading to the point of fiction.. can anyone look at the 4/1 watchtower and tell me what is says?.

.

maninthemiddle

As usual highly out of context. What I thought to be true is.

For any lurkers research the bible, learn how it really came to be.

Which Came First: The Church or the New Testament?

By Fr. James Bernstein

The second big surprise came when I realized that the first complete listing of New Testament books as we have them today did not appear until over 300 years after the death and resurrection of Christ.....During the first four centuries A.D. there was substantial disagreement over which books should be included in the canon of Scripture....Another debate arose over the issue of whether there should be separate gospels or one single composite gospel account. In the second century, Tatian, who was Justin Martyr's student, published a single composite "harmonized" gospel called theDiatessaron. The Syrian Church used this composite gospel in the second, third, and fourth centuries; they did not accept all four Gospels until the fifth century. They also ignored for a time the Epistles of John, 2 Peter, and the Book of Revelation.....My favorite New Testament book, the Epistle to the Hebrews, was clearly excluded in the Western Church in a number of listings from the second, third, and fourth centuries. Primarily due to the influence of Augustine upon certain North African councils, the Epistle to the Hebrews was finally accepted in the West by the end of the fourth century. On the other hand, the Book of Revelation, also known as the Apocalypse, written by the Apostle John, was not accepted in the Eastern Church for several centuries.

WHO DECIDED?

With the passage of time the Church discerned which writings were truly apostolic and which were not. It was a prolonged struggle , taking place over several centuries. As part of the process of discernment, the Church met together several times in council. These various Church councils confronted a variety of issues, among which was the canon of Scripture. It is important to note that the purpose of these councils was to discern and confirm what was already generally accepted within the Church at large. The councils did not legislate the canon so much as set forth what had become self-evident truth and practice within the churches of God. The councils sought to proclaim the common mind of the Church and to reflect the unanimity of faith, practice, and tradition as it already existed in the local churches represented. The councils provide us with specific records in which the Church spoke clearly and in unison as to what constitutes Scripture. Among the many councils that met during the first four centuries, two are particularly important in this context:

(1) The Council of Laodicea met in Asia Minor about A.D. 363. This is the first council which clearly listed the canonical books of the present Old and New Testaments, with the exception of the Apocalypse of Saint John. The Laodicean council stated that only the canonical books it listed should be read in church. Its decisions were widely accepted in the Eastern Church.

(2) The third Council of Carthage met in North Africa about A.D. 397. This council, attended by Augustine, provided a full list of the canonical books of both the Old and New Testaments. The twenty-seven books of the present-day New Testament were accepted as canonical. The council also held that these books should be read in the church as Divine Scripture to the exclusion of all others. This Council was widely accepted as authoritative in the West.

33

Unbelievable CO Talk, scientists lie to us about earthquakes

by maninthemiddle in

just when i thought this stupid belief that earthquakes went up in 1914, here it is again.

4/6/2010.

this was a co giving the talk, the same one that ended with overlapping generations.. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27642/earthquake.mp3.

maninthemiddle

jwfacts, I sent you a PM about it. I don't want to make too much info public.

I will say I recorded this myself, so it is not second hand.

16

Help with a question. Need W-4/1/2010

by maninthemiddle in

this question is in the now famous 4/15 watchtower in the do you rememebr section.. i want to know what the source article said, because i can hardly agree with this statement as written.

i am assuming this is in relation to the "translation" of the nwt, but it is misleading to the point of fiction.. can anyone look at the 4/1 watchtower and tell me what is says?.

.

maninthemiddle

Nice Dream..Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

Now to do some more reading on this.

Black Sheep, thank you for the reference.

33

Unbelievable CO Talk, scientists lie to us about earthquakes

by maninthemiddle in

just when i thought this stupid belief that earthquakes went up in 1914, here it is again.

4/6/2010.

this was a co giving the talk, the same one that ended with overlapping generations.. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27642/earthquake.mp3.

maninthemiddle

BluesBrother..

Either he is totally Internet -ignorant or he is deliberately misleading his brothers by passing this off as an informed belief.

I think you are right on both counts. Yes he did say this is what he read on the internet. But because he is a CO, everyone takes it as gospel.

I argued it to my wife as, yes he is a person but he is held to a higher standard because of his position, and it should not be wrong to tell them when they are wrong, but we all here know how that would go over.

35

Did your congregation have "Talent" Shows?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i saw this video on youtube and didnt know if i should laugh or crawl into the fetal position.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abm0t-qhllc&feature=related.

.

we had several "talent" shows over the years in my original congregation - it was the only annual gathering more nauseating that the meetings.. my friend and i would always bring our walkmans and blare heavy metal in the back - hoping to block out the embarassing crap on the stage.you always had a few older ones get up on stage and slaughter a kingdumb song.

maninthemiddle

That sounds cool Brizzy. I helped out in a show when a releative when went to Bethel, we had several songs, not one of them a kingdom maladey.

Why must there always be someone who has to sing the same songs we endure 6 times a week?

35

Did your congregation have "Talent" Shows?

by lepermessiah in

jw
friends

i saw this video on youtube and didnt know if i should laugh or crawl into the fetal position.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abm0t-qhllc&feature=related.

.

we had several "talent" shows over the years in my original congregation - it was the only annual gathering more nauseating that the meetings.. my friend and i would always bring our walkmans and blare heavy metal in the back - hoping to block out the embarassing crap on the stage.you always had a few older ones get up on stage and slaughter a kingdumb song.

maninthemiddle

Wow that song just got worse!