Posts by Larsinger58

42

Why no coverage of the Russian ban in the media?

by highdose in

i mean not just in russia but world wide, wouldn't this be a great oppotunity to educate the public about this cult????.

hint hint people with media contacts....

Larsinger58

Right. Why isn't this BIG NEWS?

It hardly makes sense!

LS

5

Question about Heaven and the Resurrection

by dig692 in

this is a teaching that i have been starting to research lately, as i am not really sure i believe it anymore.

background: i wasn't raised a jw, so i grew up believing that all good people go to heaven, and all bad people go to hell.

when i became a jw, i started to believe in the 2 different hopes for makind since it seemed to make sense to me and sounded better than people going to hell.

Larsinger58

First off, read 1 Corinthians 15. The resurrection is a 2-stage process. first it is a resurrection into a physical body and then later a spiritual one.

The 1st resurrection takes place before the second coming. The resurrection is into living bodies though, thus it is invisible.

Further, Christ returns back to the earth in the flesh to be with the resurrected and those alive who are of the elect because they are all in the flesh during the 1000 year reign. I mean think about it. Why would they be up in heaven for 1000 years ruling over the earth. How would they do that? Through dreams of some elders or something. NO! God is not that disorganized. Christ and the elect (1,440,000) will all be on the earth.

When will they go to heaven. Per 1 Corinthians it is not until death is no more. Death is not destroyed in the lake of fire until after Judgment Day, which follows Satan's destruction.

So basically, the resurrection happens just before Christ himself returns in the flesh in the body of other living people. Then they wait for Armageddon and the sealing of the rest of the elect. Then they rule over those who survive Armageddon for 1000 years.

Then Satan is let loose for a while then destroyed.

Then JUDGMENT DAY occurs where they judge all the resurrected ones. When the last person is judged then death is finally thrown into the lake of fire.

At that time, after all the judging is done, then Christ and the 1,440,000 are transformed into heavenly creatures and go up to heaven.

That's the Biblical schedule. The WTS is clueless, of course.

LS

18

"This Good News Of The Kingdom! Was it authorized by Jehovah?

by wannabe in

was it to be true, that jehovah would have an active 'visible organization' on this earth today, as is claimed by the governing bodies watchtower society, would not the christ, when he gave the composite sign of his invisible presence, have made some mention of that organization, and directed us all to follow it?

matthew 24 - mark 13 - luke 21 -.

doesn't it seem strange, that there is no mention of an organization that represented him?

Larsinger58

Well, you're wrong. In fact, the WTS is mentioned extensively in the NT.

References specifically to the WTS are mixed though.

1. The wheat and weeds shows the organization would be corrupted early on.

2. The Dragnet, shows the preaching work within the sea, which is Christendom. The WTS is represented by the sand.

3. The Vineyard workers shows this would be a 2-class system after 21 years of 1914. The each hour is 7 years and the 3rd hour workers after 21 years would be recognized as the "other sheep". That is, 1914 +21 = 1935 and that's when the second class within WTS became official.

3. Of course, the "preaching of the good news" is clearly that of JWs. Paradise earth. Eternal Life. No sickness, no crime? Good news.

4. The "temple in its right condition" after 2300 evenings and mornings begins in 1886 when the first "Studies In the Scriptures" came out. The temple covenant would stay in force for 110 years until 1996.

5. The JWs alog with the Jews as the "holy ones" were the focus of the Nazzis, the "disgusting thing causing desolation" though this desolation was primarily against the Jews.

6. Christendom is represented by the sea and the beast out of the sea is "666" representing trinity. The earth represents Jehovah's organization and the lamb beast coming out of the earth is the GB. It does not wear the "666" and thus does not believe in the trinity.

7. The Rich Man is the GB.

8. The evil slave is the GB.

9. The Man of Lawlessness (2 Thess 2) is the GB that sits down in God's own temple, God's own house, and makes itself a god.

10. It is NOT the faithful and discreet slave, it fails in that commission.

But this is due to lack of understanding. Like the "great tribulation" is spoken of extensively but few recognize it as the Holocaust.

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

Also, why not ask about the "budding of the fig tree"?

This is a prophecy that the State of Israel would be set up shortly after the "great tribulation" which is the Holocaust and that the messiah would be "near at the doors" shortly after the State of Israel is set up.

This means, of course, the messiah does not arrive until the State of Israel is set up but he would arrive "near at the doors" after that. That would be accompanied by this "sign of the son of man."

That actually occurred. The eagles are said to "Wherever the CARCASS is, so the eagles will be gathered together." The "eagles" are linked with the woman in Revelation with the wings of an eagle, a woman "away from the face of the dragon" and hidden in the "wilderness" by God and thus a secret society of cults who watch over the messiah. It is they who observe this "sign of the son of man" from the time of his birth.

In other words, the "pre-messiah" is born and is tested for 40 years before approved to become the fleshly expression of the messiah who comes down and takes up his identity. But the "sign" begins to appear at his birth. The messiah appears as usual at the beginning of the 70th week, which is 1989-1996. That is, 36 CE ends the 70th week of the 1st coming. 490x4=1960+36=1996. So the 70th week of the second coming is 1989-1996. From that we know the messiah must be in his 40th year by the end of 1989 and thus would have to be born by 1949-1950. That's just a short while after 1948.

The imagery in the Revelation Book, though much later in 1998, proves the imagery was seen before the actual second coming in 1992. So the "sign of the son of man" appears from the time of the birth of the messiah. It it did! Even the WTS knows about the sign. Again, it causes the elect to "beat themselves in lamentation" because it is the depiction of a dead messiah. So it is fulfilled. Also it appears in the heavens because it is in the form of cloud imagery.

So, some of us are ecstatic that things are being fulfilled and some are scratching their heads wondering why Matthew isn't fulfilled.

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

MATTHEW FULFLILED.

Look at some clear-cut fulfillments.

1. "Good news" by JWs preached worldwide before November 30, 1947. NH Knorr had a world-wide speaking engagement earlier that year proving the WTS was a worldwide organization by this time. November 30, 1947 was the "end of the gentile times."

2. The "great tribulation" has to occur. This is prophesied to be like no other event. This "great tribulation" was the Holocaust. It is not Armageddon as many think, including JWs. It did happen. It was scheduled to occur for 7 years from 1940-1947, but the "days were cut short" for the sake of the "holy ones", meaning the Jews, or else no flesh would be saved. This has a literal application to the prophesied 2/3rds that were to be exterminated (Zech 13v8) which was reached by late 1944. Had the war continued more than 2/3rds of the Jews might have been exterminated. Hitler wanted to exterminate every Jew and half-Jew on the planet. So that was fulfilled, though the official "end" of the gentile times relates to the end of the exile and their new land being returned, which occurred later in 1947.

3. After the Holocaust ("Immediately after the tribulation of those days..) and after the State of Israel is set up (the budding of the "fig tree") the messiah and the "sign of the son of man" was to begin to appear shortly afterward. It did! It appeared to the elect after the birth of the person who would become the messiah in 1992. That "sign" was the close-up image of a sleeping child created by black clouds which confirmed the new messiah would be a black man. Imagery of that sign appeared in 1998 in the "Revelation Book" showing a sleeping black child next to a bird. The sign consisted of a sleeping black child and an eagle. The artwork in the Revelation Book confirms the sign had appeared as prophesied.

So that was fulfilled. Why didn't you ask about the "sign of the son of man"?

It has a few details. For one, it appears in the sky, in heaven. The sign is imagery in the clouds of the sleeping black messiah. Two, the sign when seen causes the elect to "beat themselves in lamentation" and mourn! WHY? Why the mourning as if someone is dead? Because they see someone dead. They see the dead black child representing the messiah. Why? Because the person who becomes the messiah, a JWs, falls away from the faith and gets disfellowshipped for fornication. He fulfills the life of the "prodigal son" and thus he becomes a dead messiah for a while and they mourn over his spiritual death. Of course, he returns at the last minute and God makes him the messiah. But that is why there is mourning! That is why the messiah is called a "carcass"--because at one point he dies. The sign thus must be consistent with someone dead, which it is. It's the symbol of the dead messiah.

Fulfilled!

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

Sign 9. Good news preached in all earth/all nations. Not sure about this one. Are there Christian missionaries in the Uyghur provinces of China? In Pakistan? All nations? Really?

You're interpreting this to mean every single person on the planet would hear the "good news" preached by Jehovah's witnesses vs the "good news" being an internationally preached doctrine vs a local church.

When the Bible Students started, they were just one some congregation. It is within the concept that this small congregation would become an international organization by the time of the "end" occurs that is fulfilled.

The "end" is not Armagddon. The "end" in the context of Matthew 24 was the "end of the current SYSTEM OF THINGS" the Jews found themselves under, which is the same as the "gentile times" or the "appointed times of the nations." They were waiting for the end of the gentile times. Thus the "good news" would reach around the globe by 1947 when the true end of the gentile times occurred. That is, when the Jews officially came out of exile.

The technical END occurred on November 30, 1947 when the Jews were partitioned land in Palestine that became the State of Israel. But earlier that year, president NH Knorr went on an around-the-globe lecture tour. That proves that there were witnesses around the world, even if not in every single place. Further, the Biblical context of the preaching of the good news is primarily focussed on the preaching within the establishe Christian community, not the entire world or in particular non-Christian populations.

Therefore, in that context, the "good news" was preached worldwide by November 30, 1947 which is when the "end" of the current system of things, that is the "appointed times of the nations" ended.

Finally, if we impose that last "generation" was 80 years after the first sign, a world war, to be fulfilled the "sign of the son of man" in heaven confirming the second coming would logically have to occur prior to 1994, that is, 80 years after 1914.

Well, per Bible prophecy, if the end of the gentile times occurred in 1947 then that also ended the 1290 days. That means the 1335 days, 45 years later, would date the second coming in 1992. Another prophecy indicates the messiah's first passover/Lord's supper would be mid-70th week of the last 70 weeks. That means Passover of April 6, 1993. Either way you slice it, the second coming did occur before that generation ran out in 1994.

So Matthew is fulfilled...if you have the correct interpretation and are looking for the correct things.

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

Everything has been fulfilled as the Bible says. It is a matter of interpretation. Let's look at a few

Sign 1. Many people saying they are the Christ. Hasn't happened. Maybe a handful of loons have showed up making the claim in my lifetime. Nothing close to "many."

This is taken generically for those preaching "Christ" or the way but who are false prophets. In this sense even the GB would be included among those claiming they are the "Christ". Christ means "anointed."

Sign 2. You will hear of wars and reports of wars/nation against nation. Wars have ebbed and flowed throughout the centuries. Since the end of WWII, things have remained pretty much the same with no real increase in conflicts globally for 65 years.

You completely missed the point. The "last generation" begins not with regular conflicts but when you see "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom" that is, when a World War erupts is when you begin the last generation. That was clearly WWI.

Sign 3. Food shortages. The 20th century didn't eradicate starvation, and the total number of hungry is up, but the rate of starvation is way down. Food production has boomed and a much greater percentage of the world is being fed than was the case pre-1914.

The "Great Depression" qualifies this interpretation in the post 1914-era, but pre-Holocaust.

Sign 4. Earthquakes. The frequency and power of earthquakes has been consistent and stable for thousands and thousands of years.

Good point. Unfortunately, "earthquakes" is a poor to mistranslation here and should be "tremors" or "agitations" in reference to social unrest in the world in various places. Not actual earthquakes. Sorry about that.

Sign 5. Tribulation and killing of Christians as objects of hatred by ALL nations. Not happening. There is local persecution in various places but mass killing of Christians in all nations? Not even close.

This specifically relates to both Jews and Jehovah's witnesses who did suffer persecution and especially the Jews. So this is fulfilled. Both the Witnesses and the Jews were specific tagets of Nazzi Germany, which fulfills the "disgusting thing in a holy place" the "holy place" being the Jews and JWs. So this was easily fulfilled during the Holocaust.

Sign 6. Stumbling/betrayals/hatred. Hard to quantify.

This is easily fulfilled by the state of the WTS after the death of CT Russell. There was betrayal and stumbling.

Everything has been fulfilled. In Matthew the "great tribulation" is the Holocaust. It is not Armageddon because it is completely over even before the second coming occurs. "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..."

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

Whether these signs are fulfilled or not depend upon interpretation.

For instance you said

Sign 8. Because of increasing lawlessness love of most people will cool off. I don't see it.&

Well it says the love of the "greater number" would cool off. In the Bible the "greater number" refers to the natural Jews and thus the implied "lesser number" refers to spiritual Israel, namely, JWs. Note JWs and the Jews were specific targets of the Nazzis in WWII.

Thus the "love of the greater number" cooling off, specifically refers to the Jews and thus the increase of antisemitism from WWI forward leading into the Holocaust. So this was fulfilled. It seems not fulfilled to some because they don't understand the application.

LS

42

The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney in

here is what the nwt says:.

"4and in answer jesus said to them: look out that nobody misleads you;5for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, i am the christ, and will mislead many.6you are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified.

for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.. 7for nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.8all these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.. 9then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.10then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11and many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14and this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Larsinger58

JEWS ARE NOW BANNED IN RUSSIA!! More people should see this!

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/185609/1/Jehovahs-Witnesses-are-banned-in-Russia

Their property was confiscated as well. Maybe this will happen worldwide. But it certainly fulfills the prophecy about Babylon the Great being totally destroyed. You can destroy a religion if you take their facilities and make them illegal.

This just happened!!

LS

5

Letting Go of God on SHOWTIME this week

by tinker in

if you have showtime channels everybody should watch this program, letting go of god.

raised roman catholic, comic julia sweeney chronicles her conversion to atheism.. it will be on today at 5:30, again thur at 5:00pm.

the show is insightful but also entertaining.

Larsinger58

Added to my NetFlix.

Wow, we can get it on Netflex? Thanks! I have Netflex and will add it also!

Technology, the net, is amazing, no?

LS