Posts by peacedog

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

YHWH, presumably.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

podo:

just a comment on the Scripture will be suffice

My comment would be that I see nothing in these several verses that conflicts with my position on the biblical nature of Jesus.

Thank you for agreeing that Jesus is not the Jehovah of the Old Testament...

Podo, do not misconstrue my words. I doubt very much that my views on the nature of Jesus or the identify of "Jehovah" support your own. An objective study of the bible has led me to the conclusion that the nature of the Son is DEITY, as the nature of the Father is DEITY.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

djeggnog:

Lots of typing, and yet so little to say....

Objection #1: You didn’t like the inclusion of the word "other" in my "commentary on these two verses.

Objection #2: You didn’t like the fact that the NWT inserts renders these verses "which one" and not just "which," frowning upon the word "one."

Objection #3: You decided that we should be debating the word "ever" used in these verses for some reason.

1) I said nothing about liking or disliking, actually. I simply pointed out that your inclusion of the word "other" changed the meaning of the verse, as you admitted:

me: "As I laid out in a previous post, the verse without your commentary excludes ANY angel; the verse with your commentary INCLUDES an angel."

eggnog: "This is true."

Is it common practice for you to include words in your commentary that change the meaning of the text?

2) Again, I said nothing about liking or disliking. I simply pointed out that you were building an argument around a word that isn't in the Greek. You then went on to defend your use of a word that doesn't exist in the original bible verse.

It is common practice for you to build an exegetical argument based on words that don't appear in the original verse?

It appears that your preference is for the nwt OVER the Greek... Is this so?

3) "For some reason"...? Is it unusual that I should ask about a word that appears in the original verse that you chose to ignore in your commentary?

Is it common practice for you to overlook words in the original bible text that affect the meaning of the verse?

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Again, please explain the meaning of "at any time" in the above statements.

Now, I realize your (feigned) concern over discussing verses from any translation other than the nwt, so allow me to rephrase my question:

5For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”?

13But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?

In keeping with your goal of discussing the Trinity using the nwt, please explain the meaning of the word "ever" in the above statements. Please explain how the word "ever" fits with (and supports) your interpretation of these verses. Perhaps you might even explain why the bible writer chose to include the word, when you yourself have omitted it when "explaining" the meaning of these verses.

Absolutely no one -- not you, not anyone -- is going to be saved by their putting faith in the Trinity doctrine. Even if one should believe in the Trinity -- like you, like so many others -- what would one say to someone that should ask why it is that Jesus didn't seem to think it important to tell any of the apostles -- at the latest when holy spirit was poured out upon them and others on that Pentecost day in 33 AD -- that he was really the true God, one "Person" of a three "Persons" of a Trinity?

So... much.... nonsense.

What I wonder is.... Even if one should believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel -- like you, like so few others -- what would one say to someone that should ask why it is that Jesus didn't seem to think it important to tell any of the apostles -- at the latest when Thomas called Jesus "THE GOD OF ME" on that day prior to the ascension -- that he was WAS NOT THE GOD of anyone, but was actually just an angel?

182

What's your all-time favorite Song by musician ? Name Song and Artist

by flipper in

jw
friends

flipper again.

personally my all time favorite song?

stairway to heaven by led zeppelin.one of my top favorite groups ,too.

peacedog

FlyingHighNow:

I'm a big CCR fan too. Fortunate Son is a great song. Down on the Corner is also one of my favorites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clJb4zx0o1o

Darth:

So true. I had high hopes when I first heard about the Joan Jett version, but as you say, some songs just can't be copied.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

Podo:

Your thoughts on Revelation 3:7-12

OK. What specifically in these verses shall I speak to?

..."Born Again" lurkers and Trinitarian sympathisers...

...with bias towards their Satanic/Pagan doctrine...

...the blatant bastardization of the original text by twisted servants...

...they murdered the Arian sympathizers...

...at the behest of an Evil convert...

Harboring a little animosity, are we?

Peace, podo, peace.

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

eggnog:

Still waiting:

You failed to respond to a question in my previous post. You quoted the KJV at which point I asked you to explain the words "at any time":

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Again, please explain the meaning of "at any time" in the above statements.

309

Who really is Michael the Archangel?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

http://www.themadjws.com/whoismichael.htm.

.

let me know what you think- for i will be adding to the info!.

peacedog

MadJW:

"Escapism"? Lol, you ignore every post on the thread and then repeat yourself...

I leave you to your denial.

31

Generation teaching - conversation I just had with my dad.

by cult classic in

so, went to the dc 2 days this weekend.

still have lots of family in and had to put in a cameo for family who had parts on the program and drama.

i left after the drama today and just spoke with my dad who is inactive and supposedly enlightened about all things jw.

peacedog

"It can't be too far off now"

Freakin unbelievable.......

309

Who really is Michael the Archangel?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

http://www.themadjws.com/whoismichael.htm.

.

let me know what you think- for i will be adding to the info!.

peacedog

madJW:

1- That trumpet REALLY bothers you, eh? Prefer the Sax?

2- No, but it does Christ, since he was raised ABOVE his fellows, yet STILL retains his authority (voice) of Archangel!

1) I don't really care for either instrument, to be honest.

2) I see. Jesus commanding angels means that he is an archangel while Jehovah commanding angels does not. Fine logic, that.

"Voice" at 1 Thess 4:16 is Greek 'phone' (Strong's 5456). The primary meaning of the word is "sound". When translated "voice", it is to say "the sound of a voice".

So according to 1 Thess 4:16, when Jesus descends, the sound of a voice of an archangel will be heard. Just a thought, but, um... could it be that the sound of an archangel's voice will be heard because when Jesus decends, there will be angels present?

Matt 24:30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Imagine that! Jesus will descend "with his angels", and at the same time, the sound of an archangel's voice will be heard...

And your Christological views are based on this verse?

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

peacedog

The Finger,

I hear you. It was not much different with me.

Eventually I came to realize that in terms of scripture pertaining to the nature/identity of Jesus, the least ambiguous verses were the ones that supported his Deity. At the time, my theology was based on an interpretation of the more ambiguous verses, while I was denying the obvious statement of the less ambigous verses.

For example, Hebrews 1:5,13 eliminates any possibility that Jesus is an angel. And if he's not an angel... what, then?

John 1:3 says about as clearly as it could possible be said that Jesus created EVERYTHING: without Jesus, "nothing came into being that has come into being." How could this be a true statement if Jesus himself were something "that has come into being"?

Isaiah 44:24 says that God created all things - heaven and earth - ALL ALONE, BY HIMSELF. Knowing that according to scripture, Jesus created all things, how could God have been "ALONE", "BY HIMSELF" during creation, unless Jesus is God?

Good question regarding John 1:1. Given there was no one around, in what way was Jesus "a god". I guess he was "a god" to no one... which makes you wonder what would be the point of being called "a god".....