Posts by JCanon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

The problem with your speculation is that it doesn't let the Bible interpret itself.

"Interpretation belongs to God."

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

I don't think that obeying expressed commands of God is the issue here. It is simply what does being prepared mean as both sides seem to agree that preparation is the import of the parables being discussed.

I've enjoyed the discussion and all the comments.

But perhaps my simple point is that "good intentions" won't cut it. All the virgins at first had good intentions. They were all believers. They were all ready to become part of Christ's bridal procession. But what happened?

Both began to nod. Their lamps began to die out. Thus both were doing everything they thought they were to do up to this point. Both had the same understanding, and both experienced dimness of light. But then, suddenly when the Lord arrived, they needed MORE OIL, in which case only the wise virgins had that extra oil to keep their lamps burning.

So I'm just saying, in a general illustration, given that the Bible does provide Prophecy related to the second coming, and prophetic parables (including this one) and other things in scripture, that these must be some of the things that the wise virgins were into. Whereas the foolish virgins were not. Ultimately the comparison between the wise and the foolish is that the foolish only went half way. They were not interested in everything they needed to complete the picture; everything that God gave them. And in the end, they needed it ALL.

So why discourage someone from pursuing ALL? Why insist that looking into prophecy or chronology or other things in the Bible is something we shouldn't do or needn't do? Why discourage interest in something that's in the Bible. It doesn't mean I don't give money to the homeless or don't love my fellowman. I just think we need to do BOTH. Doing one is not good enough.

If you have prophecy but ignore love, you won't make it. If you love your fellowman and ignore prophecy, you won't make it either. You must do BOTH. You must have oil in your lamps AND in your receptacles to make it.

????

Right?

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Take care, Canon, as the ax is at the root of the tree. Neglecting the weightiest matter of the law - love - can leave a man spiritually bankrupt, and in no condition to meet his Maker. No matter if he has “discerned” the day and the hour.

I didn't say anything about leaving LOVE to pursue prophesy. The scripture includes BOTH!
"Pursue love" AND/DON'T NEGLECT "vigorously pursuing PROPHECY."

I'm trying to do both?

Are you saying I should drop the ball on part 2 and just focus on part 1?

On the other hand, let's make sure we get these commands straight about LOVE.

Matthew 22:37 gives us the LOVE COMMANDS, which #1 is:

"YOU MUST LOVE YOUR GOD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND WITH YOUR WHOLE SOUL AND WITH YOUR WHOLE MIND. THIS IS THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT."

So right off the bat, the greatest commandment is to love God. Not love yourself. Not love your brother. But to love God. And what does it mean to love God? This is commandment #1 now...not commandment #2. This is FIRST.

Now the FIRST and FOREMOST thing we have to do, STEP #1 before going to STEP #2 is to find out what the love of God means. That is given at John14:23:

1 JOHN 5:3 "For this is what the LOVE of God means, that we OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS."

So, my FIRST OBLIGATION is to find out what God's commandments are so that I show that I love him. His commandments are in the Bible.

Now....Can I truly be WHOLE-SOULED and love with ALL MY MIGHT and yet decide that some things in scripture are to be ignored?

I'm thinking, my first obligation is to love God first. Obey what he says the best I can. I have to do that FIRST. Part of that is loving our fellowman, but it's not ALL of it, nor is it the primary LOVE we must have. Our primary love is to God; more than ourselves, more than our fellowman whom we love equally AS OURSELVES. But our greatest love is for God.

Is that what the Bible is telling us?

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Every one of those verses you quoted is absolutely correct, but it is the height of arrogance to claim that your farfetched private speculation is a fulfillment of any of them.

Perhaps. But maybe these are not my personal interpretations and I'm just repeating what someone else told me that I think works. And if this interpretation turns out to be the correct one, then, it wouldn't be "farfetched" now would it.

In the meantime, if this does seem "farfetched" to you, perhaps you'd like to share a better, closer- fetched prophecy with us so I may benefit from the refinement or correction?

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Or should the mystery of Christ lead to more love, more kindness, more good works?

1 Cor. 14:1 "Pursue LOVE, yet keep ZEALOUSLY seeing the spiritual gifts, but preferably that you may PROPHESY."

Ohhhhh, I see, we are to casually seek prophesying.....oops! Wait....it says ZEALOUSLY...for a moment I was so busy reading between the lines "zealously" looked like "casually" to me. So I got it. Before reading between the lines we need to read on the line!

Got it!

"PURSUE LOVE....ZEALOUSLY SEEK PROPHYSYING..."

Got it!

Thanks.

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Not a single scripture identifies the requirement of a working watch as a prerequisite to meet His approval.

1 Cor. 14:1 "Pursue LOVE, yet keep ZEALOUSLY seeing the spiritual gifts, but preferably that you may PROPHESY."

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown
Bible Commentary

Interesting commentary. Thanks!! My only comment would be that this "oil", whatever it is, is something that the wise virgins COULD HAVE shared with the five foolish virgins. You can do that with "knowledge" and "special understanding", but not with inward, individual grace.

Also, this oil was not for anointing, but for their lamps which provided LIGHT. God's word is a "lamp" per the scriptures. It guides us. But we must look to it with interest in order for it to shine. The light can not guide us if we don't read it.

Thus the Bible, like a lamp, needs to be read in order to provide light. In this scenario, the foolish virgins were only willing to read certain parts, the parts they liked. This was good. It got them so far. But the wise virgins were interested in EVERYTHING that was there in scripture. That extra interest was the extra oil that kept their lamps burning until it was time for the Messiah to arrive. They needed that extra oil, therefore, in order to find the light they needed which was in the secret things of scripture; the prophetic prophecies, the Bible's chronology for the last days, the typology in scripture of sacred things. This is what gave them the extra light to find the Messiah in time.

Finally, even if this sense of "grace" were the oil, it turns out that the foolish virgins did attain this degree of "grace" or whatever eventually. They were told to go "buy oil from those that sold it" which they apparently did. But when they arrived, apparently lamps burning bright, it still didn't matter. It didn't get them into the kingdom. So there is a TIMING factor involved here too. It's not get excited about the Bible after the Messiah arrives, but BEFORE he does.

When Armageddon is bearing down on us, for instance, I'm sure plenty of individuals will then have plenty of time to be fully focussed and devoted to every aspect of scripture there is, between the lines, above the lines, below the lines and in every other way. Which is good, but....the time for that "extra oil" of interest was BEFORE the Messiah arrives, not after.

If I may make another comparison. Remember Jesus said: "If you're lukewarm, I will vomit you out of my mouth?" Those foolish virgins were like lukewarm water. They were not intensely hot or refreshingly cold. They only had a mild interest. They only wanted to do a few of the requirements and leave others alone. That attitude offended the Christ and he rejects them.

Bottom line, Christ is looking for those who really care about these things and who make it a priority. Those are the ones who he wants in his kingdom. Those who go the extra mile, who graduate to understanding the deep things and get into the MEAT of scripture. Those running with full heart....not those who want to pace themselves when winning the race is the goal.

That's how I'm seeing it.

So ultimately, if someone is not into all that prophecy and stuff. Fine. God gives different gifts in different men and everyone aren't given the edge in the prophecy department. Fine. But why discourage those who have this gift? Why judge them for their Biblical enthusiasm and tell them they should focus more on THIS LIFE? Instead, we should encourage them and LISTEN to them, should we not? We can test for what they say is truth in scripture or not, but shouldn't we be listening?

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Secondly, it is a twisting of the Scriptures to say that Bible truth is hidden between the lines. If that were true, then any old interpretation that people seem to find hidden "between the lines" would be acceptable. There is no need to add to the Scriptures. All Scripture is all we need.

Daniel 12:9: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made SECRET and SEALED UP until the time of the end.....And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and NO WICKED ONES AT ALL WILL UNDERSTAND, but the ones having insight will understand."

"....Many will rove about and the TRUE KNOWLEDGE will become abundant."

"...And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringin the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever."

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Feel sorry for the virgin who fell asleep with her nose in a book. She did not notice that her neighbour needed a ride, that the food bank had asked for another donation, or that her child was begging for attention.

And God said: "The world is wicked! I'm going to destroy it. I want my blessed people to be at the docks at 9:30 p.m. sharp. We'll load from 9:30 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. but the boat must leave by 10:00 p.m. in order to avoid the castrophe! Don't be late!"

9:59 p.m. ALL ABOARD!

:Hey wait! What about "Nice Lady!" The one who helps the homeless and the sick. The one that gives all her time to the poor?

:What? She must be on board already, look for her!

:She's not here, I checked!

:What?!!!! Well, didn't we tell her what time to be here?

:Yes.

:Didn't I say 9:30 p.m., we leave at 10?

:Yes.

:Well, where is she? Doesn't she care enough to follow my instructions?

:I think she really cares, but you know tonight she had a special function for the homeless and I think she didn't finish feeding everybody.

:The homeless? Most of whom are on the boat? Those homeless?

:Yes. But...well, I'm sure she'll be here. Can't we just hold the boat up for a short while until she arrives?

:If we hold the boat up, all the people on board will die, including her. Wouldn't it be better to save these and lose her than for everyone to die?

:You're right. Everyone knew what to do. I guess she had her own priorities.

Jesus: Hey! Let's get going! If Sweet Lady wasn't so wrapped up into what SHE wanted to do instead of caring about what God commands then she would have been here early. She is getting her reward right now. Plus, she's not that smart. Why is she fooling around trying to feed the homeless who are going to die anyway because they didn't care enough either to be here on time? It's too bad, but I'm sorry. There's a time for helping the homeless and there is a time for getting on the boat, and she should have figured that out.

:So, um, you're saying she's not that smart?

Jesus: No. I'm saying she's not true "kingdom material" as nice as she is. Kingdom material would have been on the boat at 9:29.

:Right.

Canon

91

It's so simple -- Matthew 24

by cruzanheart in

so here i was this evening, reading the old familiar matthew 24 with the kids before bedtime, but i was reading out of our very nice contemporary parallel new testament, specifically the message version, and i had this sudden realization: jesus didn't give us a really complicated, mysterious prophecy that had different types and antitypes -- he was simply continuing his original message (love your neighbor, love god).

remember verse 12 about the love of the many cooling off?

the verse right after that talks about enduring to the end.

JCanon

Apparently you didn't get my point. Nobody here is arguing against Bible knowledge. But mere guesswork and speculation - reading between the lines - does not amount to Bible knowledge.

I agree. But my point was that "sacred secrets" are present in scripture and sometimes they are hidden between the lines, so if you're not concerned about at least looking you'll miss part of the truth. The "wise virgins" make it into the kingdom because they were concerned with these "extra" things. That extra oil is found between the lines.

Canon