please, take the time to read this:.
the wts teaches that only the anointed 144,000 seen in revelation 7 will enter heaven (the "anointed class"), while the remainder that are not annihilated (the "other sheep") will live forever on earth in paradise.
however, the bible poses some irreconcilable difficulties with this idea.
and Charles Taze Russell (not a Jew) could not be in heaven.
Russell was a Jew--though I doubt he's in Heaven.
He was into Freemasonry and all that secret stuff, put Knights of Templar emblems on Christian literature, then had his org. bury him near a pyramid --doubt he made it, right?
JC
could someone please send me the references that changed the thinking (new light, if you will) about those alive to recognize the significance of 1914 being alive to see armeggedon?
someone is asking me about this and i have been out too long.
gretchen
Unbelievable, what a cop-out!!!
But that's what happens when you have the wrong information!!
JC
i've recently read who wrote the gospels, it mentioned on a side note from the gospels that daniel was probably written around 200 bce not during nebuchadnezzars reign.. in daniel chapter 9 he mentions reading the phophetic words of jeremiah about the 70 years of servitude.
jeremiah lived in a different land (judah) while daniel was in babylon.
how would daniel have been able to get jeremiahs scrolls seeing they had just been written and also the position daniel was in as chief of nebuchadnezzars magic practising priests would not have bode well for real jewish worshippers to think about making any saturday morning placements with him.. the book i read states that jeremiah, daniel and most of the other books seperate from the talmud were not canonized until around 200 bce.. any thoughts on this or have you done or read anything on this subject.
Per Jeremiah 44:14 and 28, some of those who ran down to Egypt who were not killed by Nebuchadnezzar were then deported to Babylon. According to Josephus in Antiquities X, the last deportation in year 23 was of those Jews from Egypt. That would have included for sure Jeremiah and Baruch. Thus Jeremiah's writings would have been available to Daniel who likewise was in Babylon at the time.
Not so mysterious.
As far as WHEN the writings of Daniel took place, please note there is no academic criticism invovled with when this ORIGINATED. Just because something is copied at a later period doesn't mean it originated at that time. Thus whether or not you can date "Daniel" to 200BCE doesn't mean a more original work from Daniel from the early Persian Period did not exist. The claim that some of it was written, say, in the 1st year of Darius the Mede cannot be challenged as far as dating goes.
I will note this, though, because of the conspiracy during the Persian Period to claim that Xerxes was Artaxerxes when,in fact, they were the same king, some of the Jewish chronology writings had to be suppressed and that would have included Daniel, Ezra and Nehemiah. Thus you have an ADAPTED, "safe copy" of "Esdras" (Ezra/Nehemiah) showing up in the apocryphal writings. You need only to compare the apocryphal "Esdras" to the canonical Ezra/Nehemiah to see where the changes had to be made. Thus Daniel might have been suppressed for a while until 200 BCE and this is why it is assigned to originating at that late period perhaps.
For those who continue to refuse to believe there was not a comprehensive revision by the Persians of both the Neo-Babylonian and Persian periods, there will continue to be error. That's the way it goes. Some people "love the darkness" and mystery and refuse to come into the light.
Here's the true critical chronology per the Bible, final and non-negotiable.
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THE STRICT BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN TIMELINE
The following represents an outline of the timeline some Christians believe represents to true coordinated chronology of the Bible and the astronomical evidence used to support this particular chronology.
70 WEEKS PROPHECY: This prophecy dates the first and second coming during the 70 th week of two periods of 490 years. The first coming occurs during the 70 th week of the third day of a week (7 days) of 70 weeks (3430 years). The second coming occurs at mid-week of the 70 th week during the 7 th day of the Covenant with the Jews of 3430 years. Each day is 490 years; 7 days are 3430 years. This week celebrates the JUBILEES which is the first week of every 49 years, but also the 50 th of the preceding 49 years. Based upon this, key events are dated during the jubilees (see below). But getting back to the 70 weeks prophecy, this entire week can be dated based upon the baptism of the Messiah in 29CE meaning the 70 th week ended in 36CE. This anchors the entire week upon which we can place other important events. The second coming is dated to mid-week of the last 70 th week which occurs between 1989-1996 at Passover. Thus Passover of 1993 represents the 7 th 70 th week and the all-important arrival of the second coming to fulfill that 7 th 70 week.
IMPORTANT JUBILEE DATING: Important dates in the jubilee cycles would include
1) 455BCE as the jubilee for the return of the Jews from Babylon. We arrive at 455BCE since the 490 years begins 490 years prior to 36CE when the ?word goes forth to rebuild Jerusalem? which occurred in the 1 st of Cyrus.
2) The EXODUS is another important Jubilee, the first in this week of 3430 years. We simply count down to the first day which is 980 years from 455BCE to arrive at 1435BCE. Since you can?t begin the first week with a jubilee, the Exodus is considered the first jubilee which we count down 49 years from 1435 which gives us 1386BCE for the Exodus.
3) The third most significant Jubilee is the 50 th from 455BCE, making it especially significant. That jubilee falls in 1947, the final jubilee for the Jews to return to their homeland. Thus 1947 becomes a pivotal date for other coordinated chronology in the Bible.
1947 JUBILEE ENDS 1290 DAYS: Per Daniel 12, a ?great tribulation? would occur against the Jews in which the ?holy ones would be dashed to pieces? and then after that, their tribulation would ?end? and the trampling of Jerusalem by the gentiles would end. Thus the end of the gentile times and the end of the Jewish exile occur at the same time which was 1947. The Bible assigns a symbolic 1290 days to that event. It dates the second coming 45 years later to fulfill 1335 days. 1947 plus 45, of course is 1992, the same year of the 1993 Passover occurring to fulfil the 7 th 70 th week.
THE FALL OF JERUSALEM, 529BCE: The Fall of Jerusalem is calculated two ways via the 70 th week prophecy, one from 29CE and one from 1992. For dating the fall of Jerusalem via the first coming, we simply establish 455BCE as the beginning of the 70 weeks prophecy dated to the 1 st of Cyrus. Josephus is used to introduce 70 years here to establish the date of the last deportation (Ant. 11.1.1) in 525BCE but which is also year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar (525BCE). The fall of Jerusalem in year 19 thus falls in 529BCE.
7-TIMES PROPHECY: The second method for determining the fall of Jerusalem is via the dating of the second coming which is ?7 times? a period of 2520 years from the second coming to the fall of Jerusalem. Based upon either the 70 th week prophecy based upon 36 CE or the 1335 days prophecy based upon 1947, we arrive at 1992 as the mid-week year for the second coming. If we subtract 1992 from 2520 years (7 times) we get the date of 529BCE for the fall of Jerusalem. The interval between the fall of Jerusalem and the second coming is describes as ?7 time? in the Bible and by applying ?a day for a year? formula (Eze. 4) this is expanded to 2520 years. The Messiah was to arrive secretly first ?as a thief? in the clouds and then later be revealed to the world after his secret followers have all been sealed, thus the initial second coming event was not to be very observable by the world at large. At any rate, you can see how COORDINATED the Biblical chronology is with at least four ways now coordinated to date the fall of Jerusalem in 529BCE.
4 TH OF SOLOMON, 906BCE: This is arrived at simply by moving forward 480 years from the Exodus in 1386BCE to 906BCE. Solomon?s reign thus ends 36 years later in 870BCE per the CBTL (Coordinated Biblical Timeline)
ASTRONMICAL EVIDENCE FOR ABOVE DATING:
Astronomical dating is the only way that we can have ?absolute dating? since they align specific astronomical dates to historical dates thus they are very important. The following texts have been adjusted to reflect the above chronology:
VAT4956: Double dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar to 568BCE and 511BCE. The 511BCE reference is encrypted and thus represents the original dating in a revised chronology, thus dismissing the 568BCE dating as frauduilent. 511BCE year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar matches 529BCE for year 19.
SK400 (STRM. KAMBYSES 400): This astro text also has cryptic double dating in it, dating ?year 7? to 541BCE by the eclipse interval between two eclipses, precisely measured at 2:46 which is the interval for 541BCE. The rest of the text which is dated for year 7 of Kambyses in 523BCE lists the two eclipses and their specific times but the interval in 523BCE is 2 hours too great at 4:46. This mis-match to 523BCE and match to 541BCE establishes the encrypted reference along with the signficance of 541BCE as ?year 7? since year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar falling in 541BCE would date year 19 to 529BCE.
NABON 18, ET AL: The Nabon. 18 text records a rare eclipse event where the Moon sets while eclipsed in the 2 nd year of Nabonidus. This eclipse event survives because in the revised chronology which dates year 2 in 554BCE a lunar eclipse occurs in the same month. The original date for year 2 was 479BCE. But in order to establish this double-reference the eclipse times had to be adjusted so that the lunar eclipse of 554BCE would set while eclipsed. This is the same circumstance needed so that the first eclipse in the double-eclipses in the SK400 would occur ?one hour before Midnight?. But it turns out, since an eclipse is about 3 hours long that the same adjustment needed to have the first eclipse in 523BCE occur one hour before Midnight was within the range of the partial eclipse occurring in 554BCE when retimed that would allow it to set while eclipsed. Likewise, the original timing of the first eclipse in the SK400 which actually occurred one hour before midnight in 541BCE causes the 479BCE eclipse, which is a total eclipse, to set while eclipsed at the end of the Total Phase. This is particularly significant since a partial eclipse which was nearly over when the Moon set would not cause the same panic and reaction as a total eclipse that set while eclipsed in the total phase would, which is precisely what happens when you retime the 479BCE eclipse to the SK400 time of one hour before midnight. Thus we have a very strong second confirmation of not only manipulation but a good reference for year 2 of Nabonidus in 479BCE. This dates his 1 st year in 480BCE and the 1 st year of Cyrus? rule from Persia to 475BCE. Cyrus rule is currently dated from 559BCE to 539BCE, a 20-year period from the time he became king in Persia and the time he began to rule in Babylon. This same 20 years is applied thus from 475BCE to 455BCE, dating the 1 st of Cyrus in 455BCE which is consistent with the other astronomical texts noted above.
REDATING THE ASSYRIAN PERIOD: Finally, the last trick is redating the Assyrian Period which is critically dated to a single eclipse event found in the Assyrian eponym list in the 10 th of Bar Sagale. Usually dated to 763BCE, this eclipse is part of a series of solar eclipses that occur every 54 years and 1 month apart. This eclipse likely survived in the records because of the option of beginning the year before the spring equinox as long as the equinox occurs before the full moon. Usually it?s simply the first month (new moon) after the equinox. This is pertinent to the 763BCE eclipse and the 709BCE eclipse which follows 54 years and 1 month later. That?s because based upon later Babylonian routine the 763BCE eclipse would have been dated in month 2 and not month 3 as the text claims, and the 709BCE eclipse would have occurred in month 3, as it does. Thus it is not at all difficult to simply redate the 763BCE eclipse event to 709BCE. Another reason supporting this was the original date is the fact that it appears in the epononym list in the first place which is rare. Since this was the third eclipse in this special series though, it made it PREDICTABLE based upon the first two eclipses as far as date and location. This would have been a major social event if a solar eclipse would have been predicted and thus would have been reflected as part of the major event for that year. Thus combined with the standard dating for month 3 and the fact that this eclipse was predictable, 709BCE becomes a critical reference for dating the Assyrian Period. This coordinates quite well with the rest of the dating. It dates the Battle of Qarqar to 799BCE, the 20 th of Ahab and the end of the 5 th of Rehoboam to 871BCE. As noted above, Solomon?s rule ends in 870BCE which means there was a 6-year co-rulership between Rehoboam and Solomon. This is confirmed by the context of scripture which shows at the time of the invasion by Shishak in the 5 th year of Rehoboam he was still in charge of ?all of Israel? and later met with all the ?princes of Israel? after they repented from their folly of idolatry (Compare 2 Chronicles 12:1 and 6). Of course, the dating for the invasion by Shishak in 925BCE now gets redated 54 years later to 871BCE per the redating of the eponym eclipse from 763BCE to 709BCE. Thus the invasion occurs in the 39 th year of Solomon?s rule when Rehoboam was still in charge of the cities in the north which is where the cities recorded by Shishak were conquered, only at this time, they were still under the rule of Judah. Jeroboam did not come and begin ruling until after Solomon?s death. Of course, dating the end of Solomon?s reign in 870BCE is more consistent with the pottery dating for that period and the buildings as well, so there will be no academic objection to redating Solomon 54 years later than he presently is dated.
SUMMARY: Based upon the above coordinated Bible Timeline and supporting astronomical text adjustments, the above dates are considered to be absolute and final with no further necessity to debate any other dating options for these key dates since at this point no evidence, new or old, will be in a position to preempt the above, only contradict or support it.
Gary
ex 12:40 isreal in egypt 430 yrs .
this leaves 30 years of habitation in egypt in peace.
gen 41:46,53;45:11 joseph 39 years old when israel and sons move to egypt.
Here's the recent reference regarding the Ugarit eclipse that is optionally dated to 1375BCE a date not thought to match up well with the rule of Ahkenaton which dates his 7th year in 1346BCE. However, the Bible more directly dates the Exodus, believed to be his 7th year to 1386BCE and thus the 1375BCE eclipse reference works quite well, Ahkenaton would have still been ruling at the time.
To show you the strength of this reference, though, David Rohl, who found his best eclipse reference in 1011BCE or sometime thinks he can redate Akhenaton that far down!!! Point being he is already convinced that the fire mentioned in Amarna letters to Ahkenaton might have been the same that charred the astrotext that mentioned the eclipse. There is criticism of this since it is circumstantial, but strong enough for his agressive redating. Biblically, however, Ahkenaton fits perfectly the king who experienced the Exodus, everything is in place, even the rare use of bricks for building and his sudden conversion to monotheism. When the Exodus is dated Biblically and more responsibly to 1386BCE, the eclipse reference suddenly becomes quite interesting. This means that apparently the tablet was in some vulnerable position at the time of the fire, with one suggestion that it was in recent archieves or perhaps till openly eposed. If we use that as a dating reference to the fire mentioned to Ahkenaton then the eclipse would help date the reign of Ahkenaton which SHOULD be consistent with the Biblical dating of his rule 1390-1374BCE. Of course it does.
Below is a discussion of this reference and some astrocharts of the eclipses considered. It is an important reference since it's one we can include in being consistent with or confirming the true original chronology which the Bible reflects! Here's the reference.
===========================
Rohl uses the Ugarit eclipse mentioned in a charred text there to help his dating of the reign of Akhenaton. Of course, a major criticism is that the eclipse may not have been the same year as the fire mentioned in texts to Ahkenaton.
That being the case, though, it is a key part of his chronology and thus it is interesting that an optional dating for that event is 1375BCE!!!
One of the issues is the reference to the term "Rashap" thought to be Mars. Several eclipses were searched for where Mars was present during an ecilpse. But Stephenson and others thought that it more than likely referred to a reddish star that was in close proximity to the Sun at the time of the eclipse which occurred in 1375BCE.
This might have been dismissed chronologically, though, only because of the standard dating of the reign of Ahkenaton from 1350 to 1334. However, I have redated his 7th year to 1386BCE the Biblically arrived date for the Exodus and using the context of Ahkenaton's monotheistic behavior as evidence/effect of the 10 plagues, particularly the plague of darkness which Ahkenaton had a fixation for. In that case, his reign redated from 1390 to 1374 would be within the range of this eclipse of 1375!!!
So, embarrassingly so, now I'm thinking up all the reasons why this text probably was a recent text, lying out somewhere or in the current archieves and thus more likely to have been charred by the fire occurring shortly afterward (i.e. rather than some old text from long before with nonspecific dating).
Interestingly enough, though, other possible dates were much later. Still the strength of the connection has Rohl (I believe) trying to date Ahkenaton as late was the 11th century.
Below is the interesting webpage that lists several astronomical references including the Ugarit eclipse and discusses possible dates along with the astrocharts of the eclipses which some might find interesting. I'm including the pertient reference to the 1375BCE eclipse, which would have occurred during the reign of Ahkenaton and thus there is no conflict between the presumption that the fire that charred the text was the same written about to Ahkenaton...that is, IF you date his rule from 1390-1374BCE.
This is sort of bad news for Rohl though, who, on the strength of this reference has radically re-dated the event to much later. Ironically, using all his arguments, 1375BCE works with the Biblical chronology and allows this reference as the latest potential astronomical text that agrees with Biblical chronology!!! Quite interesting!!! (Go to the webpage to see skycharts of the eclipses)
Here's the reference!
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http://www.nunki.net/isis/jacf3article1.htm
What is clear is that the need to resort to liver divination (Reverse of KTU-1.78) suggests that the phenomenon observed was unique and implied potential disaster in the minds of the scribe-priests. On the basis of Sawyer & Stephenson's translation and approximate dating of the text (i.e. early Nikmed II), a date of the 3rd May 1375 BC was chosen for the Ugarit eclipse. The authors then suggested that the redish +0.85 magnitude star Aldebaran (within a 7 deg proximity to the sun) would have been the candidate for Rashap.
A possible difficulty noted for the assignment of the eclipse in 1375 BC is that tablet KTU-1.78 is blackened by fire: a fact which may in itself have significant chronological implications:
"If, as some suppose, this were the same fire as the one mentioned by Abi-milki of Tyre in a letter to Akhenaten, it would have to be dated c. 1365 BC." [58]
ex 12:40 isreal in egypt 430 yrs .
this leaves 30 years of habitation in egypt in peace.
gen 41:46,53;45:11 joseph 39 years old when israel and sons move to egypt.
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/rohl/joseph.htm
Okay, here is Joseph's statue per Rohl.
As far as the issue of the time of slavery is concerned, if Levi outlived Joseph at 137, entering Egypt at 44 means that everyone had died by 93 years later when a new pharoah came. The Jews were 215 years in Egypt as a family, so there is plenty of time for the events as the Bible relates.
By the way the rule of Ahkenaton has come into focus recently since he became a "heretic" king, converting to monotheism after his father died in his 7th year as co-ruler. This is far to direct not to understand this was the effect of the 10 plagues which if he experienced would have/should have had this effect on somebody in Egypt. He was an outlaw king who after his death much of what he did was destroyed by successors which might explain why more direct references to the Exodus don't exist. Certainly, they would have been referenced only during the reign of theking where this occurred, Ahkenaton and so that explains why there might not be any reference. On the other hand, the circumstantial and contextual side effects of the 10 plauges on Egypt has no better confirmation than Akhenaton's conversion to monotheism (just look up Akhenaton to read all about it!) Further there is some eclipse event support of his reign consistent with Bible chronology which I'll post below that is brand new. With this new focus, though, you can trace probably back to the king who was ruling at the time the Jews first came into Egypt 215 years earlier. (Or I guess I should do it...hmmmm).
Thanks for the post. There is nothing wrong with the math here that I can see.
JC
ex 12:40 isreal in egypt 430 yrs .
this leaves 30 years of habitation in egypt in peace.
gen 41:46,53;45:11 joseph 39 years old when israel and sons move to egypt.
Well....
Just to make sure that you know that the WTS discsuses this and that, in general, what the take on this is and that there is no mathematical issues involved with the 400 vs 430 years. Here is what is commonly said.
430 YEARS: The 430 years is the total time since the Jews first began their "habitation" in Egypt. Taken as an obvious reference to intermittent habitation, the first time they would have been an inhabitant of Egypt was when Abraham (with the Jews in his loins) became a visitor there the very same year he entered into Canaan. Apparently the year he entered Caanan there was a famine that forced him down into Egypt. Thus the total number of years of his being an "alien" in BOTH EGYPT AND/OR CAANAN was the same number of years 430 years.
Of note, the "very day" of the entry is said to be the very day of exit. This is not hard since it was the day of a full moon. The Bible indicates that Abraham hesitated a few days before entering Egypt, thus the full moon might have figured into his decision to enter the city for any number of reasons--maybe it was good luck to enter on the day of the full moon or there was festival? who knows. At any rate that's the story ont he 430 years. Some confuse the years in Egypt and Caanan as being different but not with this understanding. The Jews first entry into Egypt as aliens in terms of the 430 years is a reference to Abraham residing there the same year he entered Caanan.
400 YEARS OF OPRESSION BY "EGYPT": As explained by WTS publications and accepted by many other commentaries, this 30--year reference is to when Abraham's half-Egyptian son Ishmael taunted "oppressed" Isaac, his son by Sarah, forcing Sarah to send Ishmael and his mother away. This was 30 years after Abraham entered the "Promised Land" and visited Egypt. Abraham was 75 when he entered Caanan and Egypt and 30 years later Isaac was 5 years old. Thus the 400 years of "oppression" is a reference including this taunting by Isaac's older Egyptian brother, Ishmael. Of course, the actual hardline slavery of the Jews was probably less than 215 years, the number of years they wer residents in Egypt after another famine forced them into Egypt and the whole family took up dwelling there, including the older patriarch Jacob when Joseph was a high court official in Egypt.
So no chronology problems over these two references.
By the way, an alleged Egyptian statue of Joseph is highlighed in the "New Chronology" of David Rohl if anyone wants to look that up....Sorry, I don't want to lose this page, otherwise, I'd paste in the link.....
JCanon
the latest watchtower, dec 15th 2003, is an out and out attack on the rank and file for dropping into a drowsy state spiritually.
ok, so armageddon didn't come before the generation of 1914 grew old and died.
but does that mean that the big a isn't near?
ALSO, DON'T FORGET ABOUT NOAH'S DAY!
THE FLOOD DID NOT COME UNTIL 7 FULL DAYS AFTER THE ARK WAS CLOSED. THIS PERIOD WAS A PERIOD OF "DARKNESS". THE FLOOD CAME FROM A WATER CANOPY OF SOLID ICE AROUND THE PLANET THAT HAD TO BE MELTED AND VAPORIZED INTO CLOUD FORM. CLOUDS THICK ENOUGH TO RAIN 40 DAYS AND 40 NIGHTS IS NOT GOING TO SHOW ANY LIGHT THROUGH IT, SO IT WAS DARK FOR 7 DAYS BEFORE THE FLOOD TOOK PLACE.
APPLYING TO OUR DAY, WE CAN EXPECT A TIME OF "DARKNESS" AND BEWILDERMENT (AS THE WTS IS EXPERIENCING NOW) BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION AND CHRIST THROWS THEM INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE ALONG WITH THE REST OF CHRISTENDOM (THE LAMB-DRAGON BEAST OUT OF THE EARTH IS THE WTS, THE 666 BEAST REPRESENTS CHRISTENDOM).
DARKNESS FOR 7 DAYS BEFORE DESTRUCTION.
THE WTS IS DEFINITELY FLOUNDERING AROUND IN THE DARK.
JC
the latest watchtower, dec 15th 2003, is an out and out attack on the rank and file for dropping into a drowsy state spiritually.
ok, so armageddon didn't come before the generation of 1914 grew old and died.
but does that mean that the big a isn't near?
In defense of the WTS as God's recognized (well, formerly recognized) "temple organization", the prophecy regarding this organization is that wheat and weeds would grow together, thus you'd have truth mixed with falsehood until the end when both would be separated.
Thus the WTS did serve their purpose for pointing to the correct dates, just not specifically what those dates meant.
1874 - indeed, 120 years from the end of a "generation" begins the period of time when "Michael stands up" (Daniel 12)
1914 Does still begin the "last generation" prophesied by Jesus, a period of a natural generation, that is, 80 years from 1914 to 1994 (Ps. 90:10)
But this organization would also spawn off the "false prophet"and "evil slave" who would be thinking "our master is delaying".
That's because, even though thinking the "second coming" occurred in 1914, they still were basically looking to 1994 as the time when he would arrive again with Armageddon. This prophecy proves that this organization is now in spiritual darkness and the evil slave organization since they think the master is "delaying".
But part of the problem besides not having the correct dating is not realizing in which manner the Messiah would arrive. The antichrist's expression would be "he would not come int he flesh" which is what the WTS is saying; that Jesus will not appear in the flesh but invisibly. The Bible teaches otherwise, demonstrating by the two wave offerings, the first without leaven and the second with, that the Messiah would appear in the flesh, first as a perfect man and then second as an imperfect man. Thus by not knowing WHAT to look for or when, they think the Messiah has not arrived yet.
Yet the Bible tells us he will COME AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT, meaning he will have already arrived and been on the scene for many before they realize who he is. This would also mean they would think he was delaying because they are spiritually sleep, expecting the wrong thing.
In the meantime, what else can they do but keep hoping that Jesus will arrive with Armageddon and they will be saved. But this is clearly an acknowledgement that their chronology doesn't work.
But this does not mean the BIBLE's chronology connected to 1914 as the beginning of that 80-year generation did not work!!! For those who understand the nature of the second coming of the Messiah and who have the correct chronology, Jesus' words that all these signs would occur before a generation ends, meaning before 1984, DID OCCUR! Thus as the Bible indicates: "IT WILL NOT BE LATE!" And it wasn't.
SECOND COMING DATING: 1) The Messiah must arrive to fulfill the 1335 days 45 years after the Jews end their exile which was in 1947 (you do the math). 2) The Messiah must return in the flesh to "end gift and sacrifice" mid-70th week at the second coming, which is the ending of the Lord's Supper, commanded to be celebrated until he arrived and ate it one last time with his disciples at which time that ritual would end. The end of the 70th week in Christ's day was 36CE. (You do the math for the 70th week of our day then calculate mid-week Passover). 3) The Messiah arrives within a year of "7 times", or 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. Using the Bible's dating for the 70 weeks prophecy fulfilled by Cyrus in 455BCE, the 70 year desolation beginning with the last deportation in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar, then the fall of Jerusalem 4 years earlier falls in 529BCE which gives you the SAME DATE as #1 and #2 above. Sometime between 1992 and 1993.
Per the Bible, the ANOINTED associated with JWs, the entire group of "10 virgins" is broken into two groups: the WISE VIRGINS and the FOOLISH VIRGINS, with five in each group. Thus HALF the anointed witnesses would not be ready for the Messiah when he arrived because of not having sufficient "oil", that is, Biblical interest beyond the Watchtower in their lamps. But HALF would. So despite the organization continuing to keep managing over the rank and file, the "sheep" within the organization are being gathered into another group of Christ's followers, "other sheep, not of this fold". That being the case, they already know not to listen to the WTS for any new doctrines that don't fit the Bible. These "wise virgins" have done what Christ said and left the "broad road leading to destruction" and followed the "narrow and cramped path" (individual path) to salvation.
When Christ is finally revealed to the world, indeed, MANY will be at the door hoping to and expecting to get in, but he will tell them: "Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!"....and rightfully so.
JC
the latest watchtower, dec 15th 2003, is an out and out attack on the rank and file for dropping into a drowsy state spiritually.
ok, so armageddon didn't come before the generation of 1914 grew old and died.
but does that mean that the big a isn't near?
Thanks for this information! I guess the WTS has no clue.
What does 1874 mean, what does 1916 mean, what does 1925 mean ect.]
The GB has been "disfellowshipped" since 1992 and so they don't have a clue as they are in spiritual darkness. But here's a slight rundown on these dates. NOAH'S "LAST GENERATION" 120 YEARS: Is from 1874 to 1994. THE "LAST GENERATION" in the parables for the "parousia" is a generation of 80 years (Ps. 90) beginning with "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom", namely, a world War, that being WWI. Thus the 80-year generation ends the same time as the 120-year generation in 1994. Per three means of chronology, the 1335 days which dates the second coming 45 years after the end of the gentile rule in Palestine, that is, 45 years after the Jews regain control over Palestine (1947) dates the second coming in 1992. Another reference is "gift and sacrifice" ending in the mid-70th week the first time when Christ's death ends the animal sacrifices, the second time when he arrives and ends the Lord's Supper kept by his followers until he arrives. By that method we can determine his first Passover after his return by calculating the 70th week closest to this last generation period of 1914-1994 which is 1989-1996. You simply count 70 weeks of 490 years from 36CE, the date we all know the first 70th week ended. That's 1960 years ending in 1996. Mid-week passover, the first in which he arrives, is thus in 1993; obviously the same year implied by the 1335 days prophecy. Finally, the WTS' well-known understanding about the 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to the second coming is dated correctly from the corrected date for the fall of Jerusalem in 529BCE to 1992. This 529BCE dating can be directly obtained from two astronomical texts with DOUBLE-DATING (proving manipulation of the chronology) to year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar in 541BCE and year 37 to 511BCE (VAT4956). Thus everything is fulfilled as far as the second coming goes by 1994 since that occurred in 1992. 1925: Interestingly enough, few people realize the chronology behind 1925. It represents the end of a week of jubilees. The WTS erroneously presumed a jubilee period was 50 years when, in fact, a jubilee is the 1st year of the next 49 years. Thus every Jubilee is every 49 years. But by using 50 years, they presumed there was significance in the 70 weeks. Multiply 70 x 50 is 3500 years, which they calculated from some date for the time the Jews entered the Promised land until 1925. That date looks like 1525BCE. Of course, that doesn't work. Still they did understand the implication of a week of jubilees. The true understanding is a period of 70 jubilees from the time of the Exodus which is the first jubilee down to our day, a period 70 years shorter of 3430 years. The Exodus is 19 jubilees from 455BCE occuring in 1386BCE, 931 years before 455BCE. The 7-day 70-week week begins two days (2 x 490 x 980) before 455BCE in 1435BCE, the time when Moses was age 30 which relates to when Jesus got baptized at 30. That period ends in 1996, of cours, as already noted. So the very critical 7th 70th week is from 1989 to 1996. If ever Christ was to fulfill 7 and 70 this would be the week. The WTS has since abandoned trying to use the 70 jubilees reference of 3500 years since it simply doesn't work. Even their date for the Exodus in 1513BCE is less than 3500 years down to our day (1987), 40 years beyond that to when the Jews entered the promised Land is 2027. But that's a date that disregards the other relevant chronology of the WTS. Anyway, looks like the WTS is getting out of hand a bit. Think it's time for me to provide then with what they are up against with the VAT4956 and SK400 recharting which points to 529BCE for the true fall of Jerusalem. I would think their spies would have read this information on the net by now and figured out they have the wrong dates. I'll probably do my usual routine, contact the local congregation and ask them "Why are Jehovah's witnesses misrepresenting the Bible..." and star with their claim that the 70 years began with the fall of Jerusalem until the last deportation. Once they realize that is wrong and 1914 is thus wrong, then they are forced to listen to the Biblical solution to the delimma which is dating the fall in 529BCE and thus the first of Cyrus to 455BCE. That is a critical step. The research is developed enough now so that the lay members or at least the elders can comprehend this. If you infect just one congregation of elders with the TRUTH then it will gradually spread. Problem is, even if they do realize the truth that 529BCE is the better historical and Biblical date for the fall of Jeruslaem and thus Christ would arrive in 1992 instead of 1914, what good will it do them other than confirming that Jehovah has abandoned them? Per the Bible, the "false prophet" is thrown into the lake of fire along with the 666 Beast (Christendom) "while still alive", meaning they don't repent and continue their false prophecy scam, so why bother other than to condemn them? Counterintelligence is fun though. Maybe it's time since we're truly on the verge of Armageddon now. Thanks, again, for the article wake-up call. JC
http://members.aol.com/ps418/dan.html
failed apocalypticism: the book of daniel
the book of daniel is cited by apologists and conservative christians as an example of fulfilled prophecy.
This is OLD NEWS.
The VAT4956 which has double-dating to 511BCE for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar proves the Persians revised their chronology. Dating year 37 to 511BCE per the text, you get year 23 in 525BCE. Josephus says that 70 years began with the last deportation until the 1st of Cyrus. That dates the 1st of Cyrus correctly to 455BCE.
But, of course, Zechariah 1 says that 70 years after the destruction of Jerusalem was the 2nd of Darius. The 70 years of exile, of course, were not to be up until another 4 years. That means, per the Bible, Darius the Mede was to reign for 6 years before Cyrus came to the throne to release the Jews.
Thus the problem with your presumptions about Daniel and his prophecies are the presumption that the Persians and others never revised their records. Case in point, Darius the Mede does survive as a character and person in the ancient records, but his years of kingship are distorted. That's because, obviously, the revisionists wanted to shorten the years or the Neo-Babylonian kings in order to fraudulently expand the years of the Persian kings. In the process the 6-year rule of Darius the Mede got nixed. But they still gave him credit as "governor" and assigned him a 14-year rule. Of note, if you subtract 6 years of kingship you have 8 years left. If Darius the Mede still ruled as "governor" for 8 years after Cyrus became the ultimate ruler of Persia he would have died one year before Cyrus. It is known that Kambyses, the son of Cyrus, did have a one-year co-rulership with Cyrus, reigning from Babylon. So it's not THAT difficult to reconstruct the original chronology.
Anyway, bash Daniel all you want...the Biliblicalist on the other side of the fence bash the Babylonians and Persians big-time now, using their own texts to prove they were master revisionists, even of astronomical texts. If you date year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in any other year than 511BCE, for instance, your out of date and incompetent by the Pesian records themselves! Of course, 511BCE is consistent with Biblical dating, of course, since the Bible is true.
Finally as far as some of the prophecies go, it's one thing to try to interpret the prophecies yourself and then find error in that interpretation. But that doesn't mean Daniel is wrong, only your interpretation. If you have the right interpretation, then Daniel's chronology and prophecies work out perfectly well. But you have to know the right interpretation. For instance, the "great tribulation" mentioned throughout Daniel in prophecy was the HOLOCAUST. Most people don't get that. When you understand that, though, the chronology and prophecies work out perfectly.
So thanks, again for the article. Bash Daniel all you want. I bash the pagan records. "All is fair in love and war..."...so they say.
Oh! By the way. Just to show a little incompentence on the above article. Just because Nabonidus was not related to Nebuchadnezzar doesn't mean his son wasn't. Nabonidus was married to the daughter of Nebuchadnezzar thus Belshazzar was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar, a distinction often not made when referring to a grandson versus "son". And, for your information, Nebuchadnezzar gave one of his daughters in marriage to a Median king and the result was none other than Darius, the Mede who was also the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar. The princes usually held prominent positions in the government and headed regiments of the army and Darius was known to have been an official in the Babylonian army who assisted him to overthrow Astyages, the king of the Medes. So the historical inference is that he was a legitimate Babylonian prince as well. When he overthrew Babylon with Cyrus, Nabonidus was still ruling and at large. Thus he simply replaced his cousin, Belshazzar, on the throne. When Cyrus became the ultimate ruler over all of Persia, Darius the Mede abdictated the throne to Cyrus and Nabonidus was put in prison at that point. That ended the 70 years and the Jews returned to Jerusalem, in 455BCE
That's what REALLY happened. And since Daniel doesn't contradict this, I'm presuming he was telling the truth. I have no problems with Daniel and your position on Daniel isn't even taken seriously by anyone educated regarding this time period.
Thanks for the article though, it was interesting. Makes me wonder what it really is about Daniel that some find so offensive or challenging?
JCanon
