Posts by JCanon

1

anyone read these books?

by DeusMauzzim in

"the secular meaning of the gospel" by paul van buren.

"the gnostic bible" by willis barnstone and marvin meyer (eds.).

i'm reading through both of them at the moment.. - deus mauzzim.

JCanon

"The Secular Meaning of the Gospel" by Paul van Buren
"The Gnostic Bible" by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Meyer (eds.)
I'm reading through both of them at the moment.
- Deus Mauzzim

Interesting. But if we presume that John and Paul never died and have maintained a lot of important ancient documents through the ages, then a lot of the speculation about the authenticity of some of these extra-Biblical works will be put into perspective. I think some aspects of The Davinci Code novel, about looking for some preserved ancient documents actually is right on point. I think the secret societies know or have reasonable proof that someone has been secretly preserving some of the more important ancient documents. JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

Do you have any history of drug or alcohol abuse? Do you know what ended up happening to your first wife? What are you doing for work these days?
GBL

Hmmm, not sure how pertinent it is. But since I'm sharing. First, thanks for posting this. I think several people have gotten something from this. But that happens when people share their personal experiences. I bet there's lots of amazing stories out there that add to the WTS tragedy saga. Alcohol? Ummmm. Not sure if I'm an abuser. I do drink though. Almost every day (I don't drink if I have to drive). (In fact, thanks, I think I'll pour me one now!) But am I an alcoholic? I can't really tell but I don't think so. I'll just share this. From the time I was 21 and going to bars I was around alcohol. In one club where I performed the actors were encouraged to visit the tables of the customers, who in turn, would buy you a drink. You took a few sips then left to go to another table, leaving that drink there. That suggested you might return but also meant you were without a drink in hand for the next table you went to. Point being it was always around and available, but I never really guzzled down those drinks. Plus I didn't really like the taste of hard liquor, I liked all those sweet drinks, like kalua milk or strawberry margaritas. In the meantime, I was aware of alcolism and prevented myself from getting into a habit. I used to drink wine (white zin is my favorite) every day after work. I guess work was stressful and the wine helped me to relax. Well one day I caught myself actually running home. I realized it was running because I couldn't wait for that drink. So I decided not stop drinking wine at that point. Even so, I don't think I have much tolerance for alcohol. I tend to get sick before I can really get drunk. But I know what drunkeness is. I don't think I've ever passed out in public but sometimes I would get wiped out before I knew it. That's because I started singing in karaoke bars. Ultimately, sometimes people will want you to sing a song for them they like and they will buy you drink. Great a free drink. But then if the drinks keep coming and you keep drinking, then you get wiped out. Problem is, you don't get wiped out right away. It hits you a half hour later and you can't even walk! So that was an eye-opener. I knew what these fall-down drunks were actually feeling. So I had to be careful not to drink too much or too fast, even though the drinks were free. But that addresses again whether or not I actually became an alcoholic, because the drinks were not motivated by me for any emotional need or anything, it was just incidental to singing in bars. Now I drink as much as I can, but just a few drinks make me sick so I can't really get plastered like I used to on rum and coke. So I'd like to drink more, but can't, I guess. I guess I'm a wannabe alcoholic. I drink white zin and vodka diet coke now. But the liqour is lasting longer and longer so I think I'm drinking less. My wife and I got a divorce after 5 years. She was in love with me and I broke her heart. She was only 17. The marriage was doomed. But we were very much alike and quite compatible in our own ways. She's wonderful, obviously not judgmental. I chose her partly because her mother was a lot like my mother. Very theocratic, pioneer type. Intellectual. But her daughter was not like that. Anyway, she knew everything up front but still wanted to get married. Same old classic trying to cure being gay by getting married. Didn't work. Now we're good friends and were in business together for a short while. But everybody has got to see this. This greatly affected my life in this regard. It's from the 1956 Watchtower, page 590 on divorce on the grounds of homosexuality or bestiality. This was still in place during the time of my marriage in 1970:

20

Sodomy (or the unnatural intercourse of one male with another male as with a female), Lesbianism (or the homosexual relations between women), and bestiality (or the unnatural sexual relations by man or woman with an animal) are not Scriptural grounds for divorce. They are filthy, they are unclean, and God’s law to Israel condemned to death those committing such misdeeds, thus drastically putting these out of God’s congregation. But such acts are not adultery with the opposite sex, making the unclean person one flesh with another of the opposite sex. (Rom. 1:26-32) Yet there is a penalty of disfellowshiping attached to them. They will keep a Christian out of the heavenly kingdom and out of God’s new world, and that means being destroyed like beasts from all future life. "The minding of the flesh means death," it "means enmity with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God." They cannot gain the prize of everlasting life from him. (Rom. 8:6-8; 1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21) Such filthy things by a mate may make life unbearable for the clean married person and are grounds for separation only, though some courts grant a divorce on such grounds. Such separation does not free one to remarry and enter thus into adultery. Writes Paul: "To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord, that a wife should not depart from her husband; but if she should actually depart, let her remain single or else make up again with her husband; and a husband should not leave his wife." (1 Cor. 7:10, 11, NW) Only if one of the separated couple committed adultery under the stress of the separation would there be Scriptural basis for the innocent to procure a divorce and be free to remarry. Later this was changed when the WTS came out with a new definition for "porneia" which included all kinds of improper sexuality and thus it was then a grounds for divorce. So this directly affected my marriage. Even though I had left my poor wife and was having sex with other men, and the elders sympathized with her and actually told her she could get a divorce. Of course, me, being so studious and in the truth for so long quickly pointed out to them this passage that said, indeed, my wife could not divorce me. Though it was so clear she had the emotional and moral grounds for doing so. At the same time, think of the psychological concept going on of how sinful heterosexual sex is compared to homosexual sex. It seems like a lesser type of sin, when really the opposite is true, right? So we were stuck. My wife couldn't get a recognized divorce even though we both should have. That opened her up to immorality as well. Sure I was to blame for those choices I made, but still things were complicated specifically by the WTS in my case. At any rate, we both had grounds for divorce later on down the road, though I think after I got back into the truth I tried to make things work out. Marriage was another psychological prison for me of unbelievable stress. It's no wonder I cracked so quickly. Plus, I was actually in love with another brother in the congregation. Thought I loved my wife, I was actually still in love with another brother plus trying to be straight at 20. No way. It would take another 20 years before I got some of that sorted out. My hobbies now are singing and historical Bible research, of course. But I'll add that I am a compulsive gambler, for some reason. I didn't realize that until I lived in Las Vegas for a while. Maybe that's when I ruined my tolerance for alcohol as well. I lived 2 minutes from the closest casino. The fun about Vegas and gambling is that they also give you free drinks. Wonderful! So I'd play nickels in every slot machine, going from casino to casino and ordering kalua and milk and was dizzy and delirious as I won and lost money. I was unreal. But I couldn't stop and didn't want to. But then I read a warning sign posted in the casino about gambling addiction. It said that the compulsive gambler doesn't care if they win or lose. That was me. I just needed to play the odds. When I hit a big jackpot I was desperate to lose it. BUT... at the same time it's like my alcoholism. If I got drunk it was because too many people bought be drinks. When I was gambling I'd never bet more than 15 cents basically, when I was doing slots. So I understood it was a pasttime and free drinks, totally. So another controlled addiction I guess. Now, I gamble for free on the internet and it's just great. I've got about $150,000 in play money I won! My other addiction is posting, obviously. JC JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

Actually - the more I read about JC, the more I like him. I'd like to repeat what eclipse said above ('cause I'm not good at that stuff).
You're OK in my book. Sorry if I did offend with my previous response - even though it wasn't meant that way, I guess it may have come across as exactly offensive.
Even though I don't agree with you and probably won't read your posts (hey - I'm honest), you're OK with me, and have a place here.
- I should mention I've had a beer or two, but I'll still stand by this tomorrow. *hiccup*
No but seriously.

Well, some interesting personal responses out there. See I'm very vulnerable not so formidable. But it is nice to get this feedback response from you, and all I wish to say is: thank-you! thank-you! thank-you! I appreciate your taking time to tell me. But you're right. I still have another hundred posts on the VAT4956 planned!!! And that's just for this week! I'll have to devise a way of "tricking" you into reading it. I may be forced to be short and to the point -- never my strong suit! JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

To make a long story short: JC woke up in a dumpster one morning, and saw a strange cloud formation in the sky. It resembled the Son of Man (a picture of JC when he was a child), a lake of fire, and all sorts of apocalyptic stuff. JC decided that meant he was the Messiah. He then when camping with a friend, and they roasted marshmallows and talked about Jesus and the Bible and Diana Ross and stuff, and then arrived at the conclusion that his friend was John the baptist. They then dressed up in drag and made hot, steamy love by the bonfire. And aside from some strange WTS-inspired calculations/interpretations of Daniel and Revelation, that`s pretty much it. Not much different than the stuff Russell and Miller were up to in their day.
We love you, JC. Don`t let the critics get you down!

Aha! I always did get the feeling I was being videotaped while making mad love by that bonfire!!! You're too much, Hellrider! BUT... just in case someone gets the wrong idea.

What I saw at the time of the second coming was NOT the sleeping black child. Otherwise, I would have recognized the image in the Revelation book long ago myself and put two and two together. It was only when I saw the photo of the sign that appeared to the skyscape photographer that I realized this was the composite "sign" that must have been seen since the birth of the messiah, shortly after 1947. Matthew says "Immediately after the tribulation..." there would be darkness and then the "sign." In this case it would have been just over 2 years. So that needs to be corrected. What I saw, as I think I noted (I know some people don't have time to read every single line) is that I saw on the two images. On the right an eagle like figure. In fact, it was quite stylized. Not really a natural bird image. It wasn't flying but it was upright with wings spread, like a cross. Similar to this (sorry....) but without the swastika, of course. And in WHITE Clouds.

alt

Then next to it was clearly a cloud like a pillow and on top of the pillow, lying on its back, also in white clouds the image of an infant. It was quite distinct and I immediately thought, "How clever!" To capture the concept of a "son" by depicting an infant. Then on the left of these images a voice like thunder spoke. Now I was in tune to watching images in the sky because the a couple days before, there were very vivid images of dragons fighting, which I attributed to Revelation and Satan being kicked out of heaven. You'd just look up and there would be these images. So generally, I was aware of the context that sometimes God was sending messages to the anointed through cloud art. So it wasn't so unusual to think that a reappearance of some sign might appear to celebrate the 7th year of the sign appearing in 1992. We didn't know for sure if it would, be we had every reason to at least look. We were hoping. And it turned out so, quite amazingly.

So, again, the "sign" I saw was not the sleeping black child 's face and an eagle. I just saw an eagle and an infant lying on a cloud.

JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

I've enjoyed reading about your life, JCanon. Thanks for sharing something so personal.

Yes. Thanks. I'm sort of glad I did now. I've been definitely victimized by the WTS system and seen it harm others. It helps to explain my own complete aversion of the Kingdom Hall and assemblies now. You know, sure I disagree with them on Bible issues or chronology. That's one thing. I think I can get off that soapbox at times. But some of my aversion I can tell comes from personal hurt and just the social situation of how the organization is set up and that whole disfellowshipping/judgment thing. Going to the Hall for me is like entering into a prison. It's actually an emotional pain to there now. Only recently did I realize there was a lot of unresolved emotions involved and hurt, beyond the doctrinal betrayal. But others must be going through the same thing. So the emotional support is nice, even if we never figure out when Jerusalem actually fell, right? So I appreciate your kindness. I'm beginning to appreciate the other side of the WTS where some have focussed on it actually being a very socially dysfunctional cult at the end of the day. JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

But it occurred to me I should probably seek out a gay JW discussion group to see how other gay JW are coping. Does anybody know of any active ones?
Have you posted here before? It seems to be active:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gayjehovahswitnesses/

Hello Leolaia. I was thinking, "L probably won't see this, so I can sort of let loose..." but here you are. Totally okay. It's just that we usually end up locking horns on the academic side. But thanks for this link. I will check it out. Not sure if I've posted here, but it would have been years ago, I'm sure things are quite a bit different now!

JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

Ditto on the WoW!
*look at those Tina Turner legs!*

YIPPPE! Applause! Thanks. 4-inch spikes bring out the best in my skinny legs. They used to be really pegs and skinny, but I ended up riding a bike for transportation at one point and they developed a bit more. Also it depends on how much weight I've gained. They get reall skinny again close to my "ideal wait" but if I put on a few "extra pounds" they fill out my legs a bit. Thanks, again! JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

I have seen Jcanon posting for a few years, on another forum, it only took me one thread to figure out that I never wanted to read anything he posted again, so I have avoided all of your posts like the plague, however I saw that this thread was started by GBL so I took the bait, glad I did while I still don't agree with your religious views I am very impressed by your past, you are smart and talented that being said you have lot's of baggage and really need to get some help, if you could overcome the mental illness you would be unstoppable. Please keep us posted on well being. BTW Nice Legs!

Thanks for he comments X2!!! First for the kind words and compliment. Yep, I guess I'm as human as most. But also for the feedback on the aversion to my posts. I'm being avoided as the author and not necessarily for the topics. So I suppose I could revise my approach a bit to increase my readership. Not that you may not be interested in any Bible topics afer the WTS experience.

Even so, a lot of what I post is advanced research stuff for those dealing with the WTS specific doctrines, doctrines they even now try to avoid, so very specific and not of much interest for someone who is not really in that WTS-bashing syndrome like some of others are, so I understand.

Best regards to you. Indeed, it has been many years! And, again, I'm not at all aversed to seeing a psychiatrist. I believe they can be very helpful for identifying issues going on for you that you can't see for yourself. But its just more complicated in this case for me.

JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

Wow! I admit I don't read your posts as they are very long and religious in nature (I avoid religion like the plague). I am glad you are here and applaud your individuality. The visions concern me though, I hope you see a doctor about them soon.
changeling

Thanks, changeling! Much appreciated for your concern. BUT... for the moment, stay in my shoes (well heels?) for just a bit longer. I could easily think that my mind has snapped, I've been drugged or hypnotized. I mean, what defense does any of us have that are lives are not more than a dream? Like in the film, "The Matrix", where people were imagining their lives were real but it was the Matrix. So I don't discount these visions might not relate to anything real. Problem is the photo of the "sign of the son of man" was given to me. And I see why! Because we all can doubt our own conscious reality. We need something to prove it's not all in our minds sometime. Or even based all on our interpretation of the Bible. Thus even in the case of John the Baptist, who had every reason to believe that Jesus was the promised messiah, still John was given a sign from heaven at the time of Jesus' baptism, he saw holy spirit descending like a dove upon Jesus and the heavens were opened. Thus he had an extra-Biblical confirmation of what he believed was actually real with respect to heaven. Likewise in our day, along with the Bible, there was this promised "sign of the son of man in heaven" that was supposed to be seen by the anointed. Now this "sign" turns out to be a physical sign. Imagery in the clouds related to the second coming. Being physical, it can be photographed. It's not a vision. But once you have something like that, you now have to deal with explaining it, IF everything else is just a vision in your mind. So when you suggest I seek some professional help. I'm cool with that. Only problem is, how do you explain the photograph of the "sign of the son of man"? Which is REAL and part of the entire fantasy I'm going through? Basically out of the blue a skyscape photographer contacted me on the boards and openly associated herself with me. They board members had some of the same reaction as here. They thought I was using a fake name and answering my own posts as has been accused here! Same story. But that was not the case. We became friends and communicated privately. She lived in another state. I knew the date and time of the appearance of the sign at the second coming. It was December 26, 1992 in the afternoon. We both thought since this would celebrate the 7th year of the sign that it might reappear. So we both checked the skies during this time. She camped out and photographed the skies the full afternoon from 3pm to 6pm. Nothing showed up in my skies. And she didn't particularly see anything in her skies either though there was cloud activity. She sent me copies of the shoot and that's when I recognized the imagery of the sleeping black child and the descending eagle. I immediately recognized this matched the imagery found in the Revelation Book. Point being, now there is something phsyical that is part of this fantasy and imagination. So even if the photo was a coincidence and the sleeping black face in the palm of Jesus in the Revelation is just a fluke of illustration, I have to deal with that also. So I'm not just seeing visions here, I'm seeing images in Books and in photographs that other people are seeing as well. So it's not so easy for me to just say, "Oh yeah, I'm just on a psych trip, chill out." Then on top of all of this, my research has perfected the original timeline before the revisions during the Persian Period. That original timeline aligns events during our day that have to happen at specific times. Like 1947 and the return of the Jews. I'm not preaching here, but those are part of my "reality check" as well! I mean, I actually believe the Bible is being fulfilled. That this is real. And part of the prophecy was that this "sign" would appear after the "great tribulation" (i.e. the Holocaust) was over, and now, if this sleeping black face is the sign, then it is actually happening. Now you might ask, what makes me think this could be the sign that the Bible prophesied about? Well it may not be but it's consistent with it, because when the anointed (the eagles) see the sign, thy cry and beat themselves in lamentation over what they see. That is, they see something related to the death of the messiah. And that's matches this sleeping black child, since the child is not sleep, but he is dead. That's why they are crying rather than rejoicing. So again, another level of confirmation, for me, that this is real. So even if I want to cop-out under pressure and just imagine my mind is just dysfunctioning, Lord knows I've had my psychological issues during my life, I'm not able to make that quick of an exit here. There's more involved, namely the Bible and evidence of this sign, appearing for me but also for others as confirmed by its depiction in the Revelation Book. So, sure, I'd gladly take your kind advice and seek "professional" help with a psychologist, but it's not going to be an easy session when I bring along the Bible, the Revelation book and my photo of the sign. It's just too much dismiss as 100% coincidence. I think God undergood, though, that at one point we could question our own minds, which are imperfect, so he provided something tangible and physical, primarily for the believers, so they can get past that doubt and move on to more important things at hand. But let me tell you my prediction of what would happen if I sought professional help. The psychiatrist would think if was playing a joke. They'd see I'm not schizophrenic or delusional, maybe a bit of a religious fanatic, and throw me out of he office as a hoax. They'd probably confirm that I have actual memories of specific visions but how could they tell if they were generated by my own mind or by some supernatural force? Plus they know about possession and the demons and everything, so I think they understand some things are beyond basic science that can't be explained. That would be it. So that's why I likely won't bother with any professional intervention, unless I'm in a really practical joking mood. JC

89

A Jesus Fish-Bone: The Life and Experiences of JCanon

by GetBusyLiving in

i just thought i would start a thread wherein we could get some background info on jcanon without any of the end times predictions.

just want to get a feel for who this person is, what type of environment helped mold his world view, and what his likes and dislikes are.

whatever your opinion of him you have to admit that he's a character.

JCanon

Thanks, everyone, for your kind words about my sharing. It wasn't necessarily easy. But I think some wanted to see maybe more of the personal side. I'm like so many others, a JW reject, damaged goods. So I think we all share that.

You know, someone suggested I post at some other boards. I have. But it occurred to me I should probably seek out a gay JW discussion group to see how other gay JW are coping. Does anybody know of any active ones?

There was one incident where two gay lovers came into the truth. They stopped having sex, of course. But the local congregation wanted them to stop sharing their living arrangement. Problem was, one of them was dying of AIDS and his ex-lover was all he had. They were both in the truth and not having sex but still the elders insisted they couldn't live together. I found that tragic.

Also part of my tragedy is that if you're gay and get disfellowshipped for that, then the whole community finds out about it. People who would not know otherwise. It's like outing you to the whole community. And you NEVER live that down. In the congregation it's always an issue if I'm in the bathroom, say alone with some youth. I'm always worried about working out in the field service with some young male, especially if he's good looking, because of the worries of the brothers. Gays are considered just one step away from being a pedophile. Interesting, that it seems others in the congregations are doing more of the abuse than anyone who happens to be gay. Then there was the AIDS scare at one time. I got an AIDS test and presented it to the brothers just so people wouldn't panic if I was around. So what it boiled down to was I couldn't move on. It was always something I would be living down, only I would never live it down. Well, perhaps if I got married again, but that is truly a mistake.

So maybe if some struggling gay witnesses were assured the WTS has been disfellowshipped, they could free themselves and find their own way and seek their own conscience before Jehovah if they still want to believe the Bible, and in God, etc.

Thanks, again, for the kind comments.

JC