a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
Possibly both. The threads on the forum say that the accusations were made by a boy. Decades later a (now grown) man by the name of Mark Palo made the accusation on video.
Well that alone TOTALLY blows the whole 'appointed by holy spirit'bs. Maybe the odd elder could slip through the net but a GB member?I thought big J could see the future, being omniscient n'all.
a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
Wasn't his silence complacency?
Ray Franze was an old fashioned guy. At the risk of sounding mawkish, was it not a case of
"If you cant say something nice don't something at all".
Also, and I may be wrong here, was not Leo Greenlees made to leave because he was gay - not a pederast.
Regarding the correspondence, I get what you are saying. I have always felt that folk seem to go far for three reasons
They are intelligent
They dilligent/meticulous
They are energetic/hard working
Of the three the last two are far and away the most important ( In fact in my experience the first alone is more of a handicap than anything!). It seems to me Ray Franze had at least the first two characteristics in abundence which may explain the (well organized) attachment to his correspondence. But yes, he would have been foolish not see it coming and for him to say he didn't seems a little disingenuous.
Leading on from that, what I find interesting is that he so obviously didn't trust Gods 'loving, only true' Christian organization in the least!
wt study edition jan. 2015.
here is the bait:.
as the number of kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities.
Diogenesister, that is very interesting to me, so this lady you mentioned has traveled all over the world and probably done a lot and is now unhappy and lonely. I've met people who have not traveled at all, have not done much in their life and have lived in the same place all their life with the same person and yet are extremely happy in their 80s -90s
Hey JohnA
re: the Walkill folks I think what I mean is that belief may not even be an issue anymore. As is often pointed out its the social thing that attracts them.
My elderly friend has a lot going wrong with her physically and hates it. Getting old if you are sick is lousy, lets face it, and as you mentioned she has done a lot and she is railling against losing her health and old age which she did not expect to happen.
In her case though, I think what really hurts is she lost her husband & daughter to alcoholism many years ago and I think the thought of never seeing them again, which has always been her hope, is worrying her very very much.
She has been through a lot. She came to england from Jamaica, following a husband that she loved in the days when it was hard for a black person to find work or a place to live. She told me she cried many tears. She worked washing dishes at first, even though she was a seamstess, as it was the only job a black person could get, and brought her five brothers and sisters over. They all paid her back in full. She told me told me the only people that would employ you in better jobs where Jewish, and eventually got a job as a seamstress.
Added to her daughters death and bad health I think her sadness comes from the changes in the org and having to face a death she was promised to be exempted from.
if a fellow j.w.
asked a publisher/pioneer/missionary j.w., "how are your hours this month", they will gladly reveal how many hours they've racked up "for jehovah.".
now ask them, "how much money have you contributed to kingdom interests this month", they'd look at you as if you were beelzebub himself, and tell you that that was "personal.
There is an expression in new Zealand 'every time a coconut' which means typical!Every time same old rubbish.
With Searcher it should be 'Every time a golden nugget'.
Searcher has a nack of hitting the nail right on the head. Imagine if in church you had to record every loving or charitable act you did. Preaching hours are the JW equivalent of the soup kitchen. Well they are feeding everyone poisonous gruel.
watchtower says that evil and suffering exist at present to vindicate jehovah as being the only one qualified to govern; to bear witness to man's inability to govern himself independent of god and under satan's direction.
the claim is made that the questions raised by satan regarding god's motives as universal sovereign can only be answered by allowing humans to see the evil and suffering that results when man lives independent of god's protection and direction.. watchtower and jws seem to think that this is the best theodicy in the world.
but there are some serious flaws in it.. 1. such a theodicy suggests that all perfect and intelligent creation, up until the advent of adam and eve, did not know god and his ways well enough to be confident that his motives as universal sovereign are pure.
Islandman 👍❤ your post, as always
Finallyme ❤ fantastic 👏(aplause)
watchtower says that evil and suffering exist at present to vindicate jehovah as being the only one qualified to govern; to bear witness to man's inability to govern himself independent of god and under satan's direction.
the claim is made that the questions raised by satan regarding god's motives as universal sovereign can only be answered by allowing humans to see the evil and suffering that results when man lives independent of god's protection and direction.. watchtower and jws seem to think that this is the best theodicy in the world.
but there are some serious flaws in it.. 1. such a theodicy suggests that all perfect and intelligent creation, up until the advent of adam and eve, did not know god and his ways well enough to be confident that his motives as universal sovereign are pure.
many seek happiness externally and many a time assign others the possession of their happiness.
when they derive a sort of happiness from external sources, they dont feel satisfied, hence jump to the next and then to the next .... in contrast, jesus said gods kingdom (or real happiness) is within (entos) you.
this cannot be misinterpreted as jesus being the king of the kingdom was amidst them as jws do.
wt study edition jan. 2015.
here is the bait:.
as the number of kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities.
These older people, some without kids, are just feeling empty. Going door to door, with little or no response. They want to feel 'part' of somethi!g again.
I have a dear elderly lady who still comes to me. I give her a feed as she is diabetic, and the time she spends alows her to fill out her time report. But heres the thing, she never says a word to me, just passes the mags silently.I asked her what she feels about the overlapping generations, she said - and I quote - "oh I dont listen to those people, they are just going to upset you, I don't listen to them anymore'. This is an 86 yr old witness who has been so since the 50's. She has been all over the world with the witneses, literally the only places she hasn't been is Australia & the arctic. She looks sadly downcast when she says the society doesn't do that anymore. She has even been to Syria & Iraq , its quite funny when she tells me she has seen where the garden of Eden was, apparently the man from the society pointed out an old muddy pond that used to be Eden!!!
please, who can provide an intelligent rebuttal to the following illustration?
i always thought it was bullet-proof:.
"if your doctor directs you to 'abstain from alcohol' would you be ok to have it injected into your veins rather than drink it?
I think the above posts have said it all - if your doc told you to abstain from alcohol he would mean abstain from drinking it. He would not object to a surgeon rubbing it over an operative site, of your dentist giving you a mouthwash with alcohol in. It is the manner of which you utilize it he warns you against.
Similarly eating blood is not the same as an injection/transfusion of blood. Unlike alcohol blood is not a food. A starving man would not benefit from a blood transfusion. But anything taken orally, including alcohol , would likely save him.
left the wts some years ago, but just before i left we were studying the daniel book that they produced in the book study .. i noticed something wrong in the bible account of daniel and brought this up at the end of the study when the conductor asked if everyone understood that nights study,.
i think i may have started a topic here some years ago about this event ,it was a time when i started to question the wts in my heart and mind.the scriptures are lengthy so i will just shorten things by describing the stories in daniel and how one point really got me thinking about things and perhaps made the brothers wierd out about me sand distance themselves ,here it is..........dan ch 1-4. daniels ( who came to be called belteshazzar)in babylon along with shadrach,meshach & abednego ,daniel,after praying with these 3, interprets and states what nebuchadnezzars dream is( we all know this ,the image with the head of gold body of iron and copper etc) and they are rewarded by being positions of authority.
daniel made ruler of the province and chief prefect over babylons wise men ,the 3 were made overseers of the administation of the province ,all very important jobs ,.
