continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.
so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.
if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.
It's not hard to drive a bus through the idea that elders are inspired and infallible and must always be obeyed. There are even scriptures of people rightly disobeying the divinely appointed rulers of the day who were doing the wrong thing.
What need is there for a bible-trained conscience if they simply have to do what the elders say?
Really good point, this threads a keeper 👍
i'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.
i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?
i've already found several by reading older posts..
i'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.
i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?
i've already found several by reading older posts..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joehewofiba.
is this supposed to placate the ones who have been recently fired?
is this a sign of the aging jw leadership?
ps I thought Jesus was gonna give the orders in the new world - not fricking idiots like Herd & AM III.
I cant believe the way they keep bigging up the GB - Im an older girl who hasnt been around dubs for a while - its terrible, sick!
I'm beginning to wonder if the dubs are gonna take things into their own hands at some point in the future, say that they have revieved orders from JAH HQ to arm themselves up Wacco style & just start armaggedon themselves !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joehewofiba.
is this supposed to placate the ones who have been recently fired?
is this a sign of the aging jw leadership?
Actually, compared to many people these dudes have had a great life, got in early, all pals together we're gonna live forever yay! - thats not going to happen anymore (except a very few)
They are just facing what many old guys do on retirement - its just a fact of getting old.
The difference is, normally in the 'spiritual' trade surely their experience is more important than some young guys health, I mean priests dont retire do they or rabbis. Still, at least they get a stipend, more than most do.
who won, and why?.
the rebel..
Just checked out the summary of Coftys natural evil post
Love this analogy in the 'rational arguments' ( trivializing human suffering)
Sums up the JW veiw of God - this story is effectively what they go out and preach
Nice one Cofty👍
Imagine that scientists developed a pill that would eradicate all unwelcome memories and create a feeling of bliss. How would you judge a scientist who imposed the most horrific suffering on millions of people, as unwilling subjects of his experiment, but who offered some of his victims of the magic pills when it was over?
i was just talking to my mom a few weeks ago.
she said, out of all her kids, i was the only one she didn't have to worry about as far as spirituality.
i always took a stand for jehovah.. she told when all of her kids were little, she gave us the option of not eating birthday cakes in school.
You know your mum best, the pros & cons of her being a witness at this stage.
She obviously places a lot of trust in you.
It's funny, I was always the most "spiritual" child. Always wanting to go in service, loving bible study. It would be interesting to know if there was a preponderance of people who were kids with a strongly developed conscience , the annoying ones who know all the scriptures in the meetings etc, who figure out ttatt.
I am guessing though deep down you think everyone has a right to the dignity of making their own decision having been given all the facts. XXX
my wife is shunning me.
she is always in cult mode, we don't talk anymore, we don't sleep in the same bed.
i have been sleeping on the couch.
Is there ANY chance she will see a therapist with you?
Could you write her a letter and tell her how much u love her (leave out the cult for now)
Get into that family room! Be with your boys, dont hide away I am sorry for you but also for your boys! It must hurt them so much
Could get the boys involved & ask for a compromise?? Some good family fun time in return you join her in a family worship night (no mags, just the bible jesus & love stuff, u just quietly being supportive - let the boys & your wife comment maybe u could do neutral stuff like read
You got to share some physical contact, even just hugs something.... its a marriages (not so secret) weapon, u can express love without words when words don't work!!
continuing a topic that is dear to my heart because of my experience as both a shunner and a shunnee .... some people seem to get very agitated when i talk about the responsibility people have to make the right choices and that despite all the wrongs within the wts, people themselves have a role to play and some personal responsibility for the experience.. notice i said "some" responsibility, not "complete" - this doesn't absolve the wts for the things they do wrong in any way shape or form.
so please don't get argumentative about possible meanings and absolutes - of course the wts has a significant role to play but we need to decide what we're trying to achieve here and why the personal choice is so important.. i'm also not talking about actual crimes that the wts should answer for.
if they cover up child abuse for instance, they absolutely should be reported immediately.
Insofar as I'm concerned it is morally acceptable for one person to shun another if the individual knows precisely the conduct at issue and has made a personal choice to shun based on that conduct. In that case individual accountability for shunning is put under an even more intense lens of scrutiny. They can't, for instance, get away with saying "Well So-n-So did something horrible otherwise they'd not be disfellowshipped." Instead the individual has to be comfortable saying, for example, "I'm shunning So-n-So because So-n-So was asking questions that my religion's leaders could not answer for."
Again Marvin, you have a real point. As has been said before on this forum we choose to shun people all the time. I shunned the neighbour who keeps stealing, shun the traffic warden who gives me parking tickets outside my own home.
We do choose to shun people for various lengths of time depending on what they have done (& typically whether an apology is forthcoming) and usually for a limited time span.
To force them to confront the fact that they are shunning you essentially for a thought crime as no matter what we were df for we are not coming back (so the shunning will be possibly for all time ), can only be good.
every flea market i go to a group of idiots sits under a tent top with a few mags on display with a cup of coffee playing on a phone with as much interest in pushing the cult as a teenage girl at the check out line has in bagging your groceries.
when i was in the cult we had to work for our time.
now its like sitting at the coffee shop bsing with the other cult idiots counting time for your pioneer status.
