to aguest
You asked me what is my source? The WORD OF GOD..the bible and my only source…what is your source?
And what is your view about the incarnation of jesus?...thanks
Posts by javig
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304is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
Regarding your gods theology AGUEST
Christ IS immortal… and “gods” are “immortals”. Thus, Christ is a god. And I think that perhaps you are the ONLY person here who doesn’t get that very basic logic. I understand that YOU aren’t considering the word in that context, but you are in error… and SHOULD consider ALL contexts. YOU consider ALL gods to be FALSE gods. True, they are not the MOST High God… which some, including me, call the “TRUE” God. They are not Gods. ANY other God… is a false God. But they are gods… because ALL spirit beings are immortal… and all immortals are… gods. And some of us will one day be “like” them… which is why WE are called “gods” by the MOST Holy One Himself. Because WE… will be “like” the angels… SPIRIT beings… gods. Psalm 82:6; Luke 20:36
Let me ask you …when exactly did jesus became a god?
In order to believe jesus is a god, he would have be a creation,so who created him (gods don’t create themselves)?
As far im concern those who creates gods are pagans, and the only one with creative power is JAH, does that make him a pagan?
I do agree with you in the sense that all god are false and may I add.. they don’t exist. They only exist in the mind of people but not in the real sense…you said… And some of us will one day be “like” them… which is why WE are called “gods” by the MOST Holy One Himself…I don’t agree….i am immortal not because I am a god or I will become a god someday….i am immortal because I am a spirit being (we humans are composed of body, soul and spirit) and my spirit lives forever…the real question is not if I will live forever or become a god, the real question is where will I spend my eternity? Hell or heaven?... and all immortals are… gods. And some of us will one day be “like” them…. NO I am immortal already but never a god and never will become one after my death. God created me as a human and I will remain human for the rest of eternity. In case you become a god look for me I would love to see you as a god. The MOST High God did not promise anyone to be a god…where is that verse? Is it psalm 82:6 or luke 20;36? I mite misread it. But let me re-read it I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High” ok lets read 7 now “But you shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.” uuhhmmm....u see verse seven contradict your view about a god being immortal. Verse 7 proclaims the death of gods. According to you gods are immortal or they have to die to become immortals? Where you get the idea you have to die to become a god? Psalms’ 82? Again read the whole context. The word gods is used in a figurative sense referring to men’s as judges. In this context is referring the judges of Israel and GOD is declaring punishment on them for judging wickedly. Now lets read luke 20:36 “nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection”…again read the context (luke 20:27-39) do I have to repeat my self?...you said that I am illiterate you seem to be worst than me…Again Jesus is not saying that you will become a god in luke. He is answering the question in verse 33 “whos wife does she become”…and Jesus answered none…why? After death and resurrection there will be no marraiage and procreation. Why he mention angels? To prove his point. If angels can’t procreate in the eternal state or realm or neither do we after resurrection. Angels can’t procreate at all and we will never become a god at all. You know your beliefs system are exactly the same as the mormons…they too believe they will become gods one day…are you a Mormon or a moron?
So far what you have proclaim about yourself is
1) Jesus is a god, 2) I one day will become a god 3) are gods or Gods are false (you will be false one day)…men/woman you are a joke...
If you want to prove that you one day will become a god they why JAH created you as a human being in the first place? He could have created you a god in the beginning of your existence.
Want to prove your god transformation where are those verses besides psalm and luke?
What exactly you have to do to become a god? Born or die or something else?
After you become a god what will be your purpose as a god?
If you will become a god why you need forgiveness of your sins?
Cause the devil is a god (the bible uses that word figuratively towards him) and he will never be forgiven of his sin. Are you special, are you gonna boast after your transformation and proclaim “when I was human jesus forgave my sins”? The devil is not a god, he is a fallen angel, he is eternal just like every human being, he is a spirit being and all spirit being are eternals. The fact that angels are spirits and immortals doesn’t make them gods. Jesus is more than eternal, he is not subject to eternity, he is outside of eternity, he created eternity. Jesus is immortal not because he is a god, he is immortal because GOD can’t die. The only thing that dies is our body just like Jesus body. Our body is subject to death but not our soul and spirit. And we are body, soul, spirit creatures (1 Tess. 5:23). And there is a day that my body will be immortal just like Jesus body after His resurecction.
So far it seems that you love to take verses out of context and come with a pretext. Please don’t see passages of scriptures exclusively by themselves. See them in light of its context, in light of other passages and in the whole context of the bible…
Let me ask you another question..are we saved by faith alone in Christ alone?
And last but not least.... if I ever misunderstood you about your gods theology please I am all ears…however I woul like you to ask all my questions in here
I WILL NEVER BECOME A god .....
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
To Aguest
Hi…Again it is not Michael talking in rev 1:18…and I haven’t said yet who is talking there. You claim in rev 19:6 is jesus
How do we know? Well, at least with reference to Christ and Michael… THEY HAVE DIFFERENT VOICES. Michael’s voice “is as of a TRUMPET” (see 1:11 and 4:1). Christ’s voice… “is as of MANY WATERS” (see 1:15 and 19:6)
Rev 19:6 it doesn’t tell us that is Jesus speaking. Just because Jesus speak with a voice “is as of many waters” in 1:15 Im bound to think it is Jesus in 19:6? No…read the text Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns ….clearly the voices being heard is from that great multitude….can’t get more clear than that. It seems you are reading something into the text and context instead of letting the context speak to you…basic biblical hermeneutics plz research it…
I know it to be Michael NOT because of what some book says, but because that is who my Lord identified it to be to me ….I know not to be Michael in rev 1:18 and 4:1 because some other book told me but because the book of revelation tell me so. The book of revelation will easily correct you on this error.
until verse 17b… which I notice you DIDN’T address. At all ….obviously the one John sees is Jesus and he talks too john…how do we know that? Verse 12 john turns around to see that voice from verse 11…after turning around he describes the ONE with the voice from verses 12-16…after seen HIM he fell verse 17…The context clearly tell us is one person in verse 1:11 thru-20…context, context, context...what about 4:1? Same thing…is not Michael…the first voice that john heard is the same one from 1:11 and we know to be Jesus because of the description from 1:12-16.
You asked me what is my source? The WORD OF GOD..the bible and my only source…what is your source? And what is your view
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
To Aguest
Please read the context or better yet understand what is biblical hermeneutics...As far im concern the Holy Spirit is presentedin the bible as a person...i will give you bible text later not now...in the mean time let me laugh when you say that Revelation 1:11 is the arkangel michael talking. as far im concerned there is many angels mention in revelation and none of them John describe them with a name except chapter 12 been michael without speaking...you said that angel is michael cause his voice..well..what about john did he said the one speaking in verse 11 is michael?...John didn't bother to mention the name of the angel in verse 1 but you bother...interesting...I admire your passion in defending your own lies. we really need people like that in the body of Christ...but except of spreading lies spreading truth...Your understanding about jesus is, a god...that there is enough to call you an antichrist accorsint to the inspired word of the Spirit in
1 John 4:2-3 (King James Version)
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
....you mite said that i dont undrsetand the greek meaning behind the text or i have the wrong translation...but i do understand the context very clearly...you see for a person not to believe in the trinity has to denied the incarnation and john is saying if you denied that Jesus came in flesh you have the spirit of the antichrist...u mite accept the incarnation doctrine but an incarnation of ur jesus,a god, but not the GOD of the bible. You have a different view about jesus than me, the bible and the HOLY SPIRIT...and the sad part about it you claim that the Spirit gave you wisdom, understanding and light about this truth (jesus, a god)...thats interesting...a new light when we all been believing the same thing over a period of almost 2000 years and now you said that the spirit told you to refuse that Jesus is God becuase he is a god...that sounds like a cult to me...
i will get to you later about this issue even more...im gonna do my own homework in seeing jesus as a god...i will get back to you on this...in the mean time try to see jesus as your GOD and not merely a god...you mite learn something...may JAH open your eyes
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
To PSacramento .....
Don't be confused by your own doubts...Is good to have doubts but dont let those doubts lead you away from God. Is good to have doubts as long as you take hold of them and clear them by finding a real answer thru the word of God. A doubt about the OT GOD and the NT GOD is a common one between believers or anyone starting christianity. I had the same doubt but that doubt took me to a research journey and critical analysis about God...Now i understand better the nature of God. As you read the bible from Genesis thru Revelation you will notice the unfolding revelation about God. The amazing thing is that the bible reveal Jesus from beginning to end, the real GOD. Read Luke 24:13-35...Also i have this book over 170 questions that covers a lot of subjects just like the one you have. Why the OT God send to masacre people?(im paraphrasing you)....here is the link for that book...
once there search the website. you will find it interesting. My recomendation is; buy that book you will be grateful..if not sure about the book i can send you a pdf file to ur email... why God send to masacre people?....the question in the book is stated: How can Christians legimitaze a God who orders the geonocide of entire nations?...........
Dont be confuse by God rightenous and holy nature in the OT and the NT. Nothing had changed. A lot of people believe that the Old Covenant was strict or severe but the truth is that the new covenant surpass the old one and is more strict, severe and better. The book of Hebrews teaches that very plainly. read it you will see. Another book that will help you is 1 John...Please remember there is only one God revealed in two testaments. you wont be able to understand the new without the old and vice-versa. I learned The OT is the application of the NT . The truths from the NT is clearly seeing in the OT...hope that helps...Plase keep in mind that there is only one GOD...and that God is Jesus Christ
1 John 5:20 (King James Version)
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1 John 5:7 (King James Version)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
Thanks for answering Aguest...you broutght another point of view about jesus. for a moment a jw and christians will favor you but as you went along your explanation they will go against your beliefs (my opinion). i respect your beliefs but i have a couples of question about your view as jesus being a god but no the God of the bible...He is the image of the original but not the original. In him all the fullness of divinity dwelt but yet not GOD but a god (you have said all of this)...My questions who died for your sins?who is your saviour? we know to be jesus but if he is not GOD but a god (in the sense of been inmortal and etc) then he can not save you from your sins. Only GOD can save you from your sin. only GOD can breaks the curse of sin and not merely a god, like your Jesus. Why would you not praise and worship Jesus? because in Philipians 2:5-11. everybody will bent knees to Jesus in a sense of worshipping. (unless i understood that context wrong). If they will worship Jesus in the future why not do it now? Hebrews 1 also teaches that GOD commands angels to worship Jesus, firstbegotten, then why you dont worship him, only KISSED? If jesus is not to be worship then how come he never rebuke all those people who adored and worshiped him in the gospels? Please notice each instance not just some...also to any jw please answer these questions....
something interesting i learned reading the OT...The OT reveals Jesus with titles, names, how he will come, how he will die, etc...What do we learn with that revelation about Jesus in the OT?...Anyone who wants to have a better view of Jesus please research the OT...you will find that Jesus have qualities of GOD and not merely a god. you be surprised what the OT reveal about Jesus...the most commom ones..The everlasting Father, the Mighty God found in Isa 9:6...who is the prohet talking about? Jesus or somebody else or a merely a god (who is that god)? Is he talking about jesus, a god, then that god is equal to the GOD of the bible? is he talking about Jesus, the GOD-MAN?....Hope this helps to anyone that is trying to understand the Trinity....
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
i have a question for aguest..do you believe in the trinity? i asked cause you comments gave me the impression that you belive Jesus is the father, son, and holy spirit and your words "my Lord is a god" makes me think you are a jw...so if you believe in the trinity then i apologize for misjudging you....thanks...
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
i am amaze with all the answers and great explanation that christian and jw have...however everything boils down to this...The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father...otherwise Jesus would be praying to himself or have taught us a great lie...which one is it?
I dont have to use greek terminology to explain the fact that Jw believes in two gods...Jehova the Great God and jesus "a god"...rigth there is a contradiction. We(christian) are not saying that Jesus is a god. He is the GOD. If i were a jw witness i have to make a choice in believing in one true God and there is no other gods or believe one true God and another minor god (jesus). The problem is the text in John 1:1 of the jw bible that clearly teaches that jesus is a god and then they tried to explain that way with greek terminology and grammar...i think the best thing to do is change the whole text so no jw would be confuse or anybody else...my coclusion is that jw witness believe in one true God and one minor god...If this is wrong someone correct me.....i know the bible uses the word "god" refering to humans, refering to satan, etc...however the real usage and meaning of the word comes clear with the context...My advice to all jw study biblical hermeneutics. The WT organization never applies those principle in all their teaching neither their followers
How hard is to believe that God became in human form? There is nothing imposible for God. if all jw start with that view then all their confusion, doubts and question will clear...As a bible believing christian i did have my doubts, confusion, and question in believing the Trinity. i did my own research, i reseached other teaching about it that goes in favor and against it. At the end i have to make my own conclusion. which was The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit is God, not Gods, One god. And the bible always make a distinction that the Fahter, Son and Holy Spirit all three diferent persons with the same divinity. Like i asked earlier, what makes a God? You will find the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit having all the qualities to be God, not Gods. ...but wont make sense that there is one God and three person? I agree but that doesn't mean is not truth. Does it make sense that Jesus had to die for the human race? No. but for God it makes perfectly sense. And if it makes perfect sense for God then my job is to humble believe what He has done and said. As i christian i dont fully comprehend the depth of a Triun God but when i see Him face to face i will understand and will learn tru terneity. God is infinite. we will have all eternity to know him...that doesnt make sense but is all good.
Now...i posted the question with the hope that a jw will give an answer. so far they have given me greek, common question about the trinity. but no one has clearly said: "we do believe in the Jehova God and a minor god (jesus)" except;
Aguest
Yes, dear davig (and may you have peace!)...my Lord is a god but we said "we believe in One God, Jesus is the God, Father is the God, Holy Spirit is the God not a god or gods"...if any jw wish to explain in their own words, not using greek grammar, other etaching, using thier own logic thinking and their bible, why Jesus is a god. Here is my [email protected] will read ur explanation and answer you back...
remember explain to me why jesus is a god?
Ephesians 4:5-6
one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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javig
Thanks for welcoming me
...Having been born directly from the Father, he retains the divine nature just as humans have human nature due to being born from other humans. Hope that helps.
SD-7 ....i hope you SD-7 not saying that God the Father gave birth to God the Son (Jesus) and because of that he obtain a Divine nature...Jesus never obtain or inherit a divine due to his birth...He always had, before incarnation and after incarnation, will have His divine nature...Incarnation teaches that God himself became flesh, in human form...not that he obtain or inherit that Divine nature due to his birth...If you are not saying that, then i understand your point that Jesus, the Son, has the same nature as the Father. Just becareful choosing your words...
If you are a Jw your explanation needs more explanation. why? Jesus, the Word, is not subordinate to the Father in the sense of being less or inferior to the Father. He is subordinate in the sense of been obedient and humble to the Father. He doesnt have to be superior or inferior to the Father becuase He has the same Divine nature as the Father. The fact that he was born doesn't make him inferior or superior. That was the way God, Jehova, Jesus choosed to show Himself to humanity and the only way to save humanity from the course of sin....
I do believe in the Trinity. Why? simple, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, have the same Divine nature and have exactly the same attributes of God. All of them can Create, all knowing, all powerful, etc...I cant fully explain the trinity the same way i cant explain how electricity works or the relationship between the mind and the brain, but God has show us enough proof to be able to aprehend his Nature...and the fact that i cant explain something doesn't mean is not truth nor real....1 Timothy 3:14-15, John 10:30, john 14:8-11, Hebrews 1:1-14, Revelation 1:1-8....read the context because is then 2nd key(after the Holy Spirit) of understanding scriptures...( Biblical Hermeneutics) not the WT organization and their publications.
If you SD-7 are not a jw then praise our LORD JESUS CRHIST OUR SAVIOUR....
i know this topic of the Trinity is very controversial to jw but what is more controversila is that they twist, ommit, and dont considers other scriptures before printing their teachings. Like i said. i am not a Jw and i have tried to understand thier logic and teachings but always have more questions. If there is no Hell what is the purpose of living a godly life? but if i dont live a godly life God is going to annihilate me becuase i did not please him? why even bother to live a godly life when there is no hell and i will be annihilate? Can i really please Him and fullfill his perfect and holy laws? If i even fullfill his perfect laws can i be saved? If there is no Hell then there is no evil or devil? But Mathew 25:41. Hell is the place that God prepared for the devil. If jesus said Hell is a real prepared eternal place for the devil and his angels then why the Jw has the audacity to contradict Jesus?....and i have a more question about those jw beleivers that will spend eternity in paradise and others in heaven...but that will be in another session...
thanks to any jw that is reading and critically thinking about this issues. This is not who have more knowledge or understand the bible better. This is about having an open heart and mind to the Word of God and letting His words transform us to His image because we as beleivers are a new creation in Jesus Christ 2 corinthin 5:17....AMEN
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304
is jesus a god?
by javig inhi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?
another god?
is him jesus?...
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-
javig
hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "The Word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"? another god? is him jesus?... i am not a jw and it doesn't make sense that they believe in one God and that there is no other gods but they own bible said that there is a god besides Jehova God...can a jw witness clarify my confusion?....also answer this question...what characteristics/power/stuff/etc someone has to have to be God?....thanks...