Posts by javig

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

To psacramento:

“No where is it stated that Jesus is God, no where, It may be "implied" if one chooses to interpret it that way, but it is never stated as such.”

I found your statement very interesting. But let me see, does the bible state jesus is GOD or not? Where?...i found many scriptures that clearly stated HE is GOD…but instead of telling you those scriptures I will help you find them with a couple of clues…

First, we know Jesus was a jew, spoke jew, was familiar with OT scripotures and every tiny and bigl law written in the mosaic law and yet fulfill every law. Can a god or merely man do that?

Second, every time the Pharisees tried to rebuke him in breaking a law he had a righteous justification to tell his accusers they were wrong and why he was right. Who else could perfectly apply the law in every aspect?

third, since jesus was a jew, he clearly told the leaders(pharisees, saduces, etc) in that time he was GOD in their own understanding and language, not ours, example, before Abraham was I am and so on…. We can argue about the greek “I am” vs the “I am” from exodus but instead lets analyzed the context…

in other words what I am trying to tell you is…put on a jew mind set and thinking abilities, then you will see your error. Find what it means, Son of GOD, I am, Son of Man, My father and I are one, etc... to the jews back then. In order to appreciate the trinity or the deity of Christ we have to cross from our time and culture to Jesus time and culture and may be even back to Adam and Eve.

And now a little interpretation: You can't have God without Jesus, nor Jesus without God….i like that I never see it that way…

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

To aguest:

Ok..is that is your position I respect it…thanks for helping me understand why would someone see jesus as a god. I apologize for not answering you as quick as possible. I have a family to attend on the weekends. My family time comes first than you. Sorry if I did not meet your expectations on time…

I am not a lawyer but I am a simple mechanic that understand practicality and a lot of applications. One little thing wrong in the car could cost you thousands of dollars to repair it. One little thing wrong about who Jesus is will cost you your eternal state or everlasting punishment or everlasting joy. If you don’t know who Jesus is you don’t know yet who you are. But of course you already confuse about Jesus, the SON OF GOD, it shows how confuse you are about yourself….

You are right, testimonies can be used in a courtroom but the judge will never deny written evidence if there is one, right?... I doubt that…so lets let Jesus, the JUDGE, judge us in this subject, if he is a god or he is GOD in Flesh?...

simple illustrations about the Trinity

1x1x1= 1…this shows the unity, essence or divinity of GOD and each member having the same essence but yet one God

A pretzel:

this shows how each hole is different from each other but yet united with the same dove (divinity)…

The body of Christ. Just one body but yet many members... Family. One family but yet many members in that family...Marriage. One marriage but yet two different persons unite as one. All of these are simple illustrations about the Unity of GOD as three distinct person from each other…..It is not Jesus becoming the HS after his resurrection as you stubbornly stated. read john 14-16 and you will see Jesus being distinct from the HS and the Father.

what you are saying “ And MY education and critical thinking abilities tell ME that people who teach that God and Christ are the same being... that Christ, the Son of God and HOLY One of Israel, is ALSO JaHVeH, the Father and MOST Holy One of Israel” ….is classified as Oneness Pentecostal, a totally wrong view about the Trinity. Please, if you really are a lawyer put your skills to work properly.

At last but not least, “Let us make man”, “like one of us” “Let us go down” Gen: 1:26, 3:22, 11:7. Notice God is speaking to himself not to angels.

With this I rest my case with you aguest:

You accused me of being a liar, deceitful, a man of “lack of faith”, Pharisee, blind guy, hypocrite, and you demanded to trust your lord words and your words without evidence. You call yourself a Christian with a quick judging attitude just because I don’t agree with your beliefs? That’s kind of deceitful from your part…anyway hope you have a nice time away…

R.I.P. my case

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

To aguest:

My last post was not personally to you ...thats why I did not write “to aguest”..now this post is personally to you that’s why I wrote “to aguest”…please pay attention and stop assuming

I wrote that post for everybody, not you, to see what the bible tell us vs your words…it wasn’t directed to you…I said before I will be silence in the subject we discuss in the past to let others correct you. That agreement was between you and me. I am free to share with everybody about the subject we had shared. And I will not correct you about your “little god” theory even if you want me to.

I want to say thank you for sharing your revelation about your preexistence theory…did not sound convincing but thanks. You forgot to answer my question “c” where are those books in print? …in other words… where can I find them… I already own one, the bible…what about the others uninspired and inspired books, where can I find them?

Sicne we clear that out, now we can share the subject about Jesus and HS being the same person. I will answer your question of 2 cor 3:16 for the 100 th time. But not at this moment.

To outlaw:

Please don’t trust me…double check if what I said is biblical or not, I rather want you to trust the truths found in the bible but not me. You choose Shelby as a Christian example? Ok…then again I ask you to double check her theology about Jesus and humans views…unless you are an individual cult like Shelby/aguest……..as you see I am directing you to a single written source, the bible, while aguest wants everybody to trust her words and her lord without evidence, and the evidence she uses, the bible, is always out of context and twisting scriptures and script torture. If she is really lawyer she would know that without evidence in a courtroom the case will not go far…

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

Ladies and gentleman…welcome to the great fight of who we areargument…here at this forum…presented to you by the written word of GOD

At this corner we have…i am a god argument

At the other corner we have…i am not a god argument

Lets get ready to rumble: I am a god-vs-I am not a god arguments

1 st round: lets hear the argument from the people and king Herod

Acts 12 (King James Version)

21And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

22And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

23And immediately the angel of the Lordsmote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

24But the word of God grew and multiplied.

2 nd round: lets hear the argument from Paul and Bernabe

Acts 14 (King James Version)

8And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:

9The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,

10Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

11And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.

12And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

13Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

14Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

17Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

18And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.

3 rd round: lets hear the argument from JAH and Jeremiah

Jeremiah 10 (King James Version)

10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

4 th round: let hear the argument of aguest herself

Literally, human only, for now. Technically, however, both, for now... I received this TRUTH from my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, who is the Holy Spirit

And the winner is

Exodus 20 (King James Version)

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

“the sacred and ispired Scriptures are sufficient to declare truth”…Athansius

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

to aguest:

BUT… if I AM bothering you,...not at all ...

I SINCERELY apologize...i accept your apology, it would be ungodly for to refuse, but I must ask why are you apologizing for? I need an offense in order to forgive you or accept your apology. Forgiveness is a two way street not one.

Please know that henceforth I will not address you at ALL, if that is what you truly wish…I did not said that I clearly stated I will be silence to let others prove your errors…here let me repeat myself…Let everybody in here be witness of your gospel, let them tell you, and please listen for once, you are wrong or at least give yourself the benefit of the doubt...in the mean time let me be....

But, YOU must make up YOUR mind, as my time is growing very short…I made up my mind. I will be silence regarding the subjects we have shared in the past and I don’t know when and what I will bring next time I post something. In the mean time let the witnesses (those watching and reading our discussions) in here correct you and please have an open mind. You should make up your mind regarding your preexistence subject to tell or not…and in case you decide to tell… I promise you this… I will not use scriptures to correct you or to disagree. Like I said before with something else…honestly I don’t even know with what at this moment…

From now until then… and then and then ...later

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

second of the two post

to aguest

You seem to know my heart? You seem to know that I don’t belong to Christ? It is you the one that don’t belong to Christ…I can point at your own errors regarding Jesus and the HS. You think they are the same person? You are misreading scriptures and calling Jesus a liar. How they can be the same person when Jesus tell his disciples “another” is coming referring to the HS. Then you have audacity to preach “my lord told me”…yeahh you think I am goint to believe your gospel? Not a bit. And everybody in here knows that you are totally wrong in thinking Jesus and the HS is the same person.

You think your gospel are pearls? What is your gospel? This is your gospel

1) jesus is a god

2) jesus and the HS are the same person

3) I will be a god

4) I am a god incarcerated in a sinful body

5) I preexisted before my earthly existence

6) Jesus die for “little gods” like me and humans

7) We don’t need the whole bible but some parts, not all are inspire

8) There is only two in the Godhead, Father and Jesus

9) Jesus is not the GOD incarnated but a god incarnated

10) Satan is a god

11) Spirits/ bad angels will be destroy

12) Jesus body was re-created

13) Jesus became a god at his birth

14) The father produced a god, jesus

15) Jesus, a god came forth the father

16) My lord told me these things

I tried as well as other to point and correct at some of your errors but you refuse to hear and proclaim to have a better revelation to everything because everything came directly from the lords mouth and everybody, including me all wrong. Tell me how can you correct someone with that attitude?

My opinion of all of this is;

Galatians 1

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

You don’t have to reveal to me your preexistence theory. I will guarantee you is a peter pan story or the princess and the frog, or the beauty and the beast, or Cinderella, or the wizard of oz, in other words, another good story that will sell in a book or a movie.

Let everybody in here be witness of your gospel, let them tell you, and please listen for once, you are wrong or at least give yourself the benefit of the doubt...in the mean time let me be....

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

to aguest;

This is weird…I wonder once I mentioned the bible is infallible you broke loose. I understand your doubts towards it. I was in that horse too. First, I had to overcome my ego (seeing the bible not a inspire word of GOD). When I did, then and only then I had an open mind…I asked you to meet my conditions not because I want to be a “Pharisee” or want to put a burden in you, not at all…I have dealt with people like you. Sadly my own brother is like that. We argue and debate but I always tell him. Let sit down and look at each refusal, do a research at the same time with the same materials. Then we both coclude and share, then we can talk about our conclusion. But he refuse…I personally used to believe there is a GOD, then I stop believing, then I started looking for a reason to why GOD doesn’t exist. What happened? The evidence is overwhelming to deny GOD existence. It would take a lot of faith to deny the existence of a GOD, Jesus. I tell you all this because it seems you have misunderstood me. Again if you don’t believe the word of GOD or the written word of GOD, or the bible, or scriptures (I don’t care how you refer to it) to be inspire from the LORD himself please don’t refer me to it. Why? I would think otherwise. Now, if you believe some parts to be inspire, ok, that’s a baby step. We can build on that step…

I told you before. I am willing to share or discuss with you this issue but in the mean time when we discuss your preexistence please don’t refer me to scriptures. Why? I know scriptures don’t teach that. You can point me at some scriptures (which you did) but that doesn’t make it truth. There are other truths in scriptures that will consume your preexistence theory. That’s why I asked you to share it with me without the bible. Of course, I will refuse your preexistence not using the bible but with something else. If you want me to disprove your theory with the bible I will gladly do it and of course you don’t have to agree with me.

I do put my faith in what the bible said towards JAH, us, my christian walk, hell, heaven, sin, etc. The bible says a lot. I don’t think no one can explain it better without contradictions. Only GOD can put together such a book and when we read it we feel a sense of awesomeness, at least I did and still feel that way. Tell me what other book speaks or inform us about GOD the same way as the bible does? I don’t know any. To clarify your confusion. I can only have a personal relationship with Jesus with him not with the bible or thru the bible. The bible points at Him and I found HIM (he found me first). But that fact doesn’t make me to refuse the bible. I read and believe the OT just as Jesus did. I read and believe the NT because Jesus disciples were the one who wrote them (not you or me) and were his own personal disciples. Peter believes in the writing of Paul as to be inspire. Not me or you but Peter, the show off disciple that became a powerful humble apostle. …you mite don’t believe to be inspired because was translated with errors. I do agree with you in that there is errors in the translation however, it would be stupid for me to throw out the bible because of bad translations. I don’t put my faith in the translations but in the HS that will teach me and guide between those bad translation to see the light of truth. Then, I can said what the psalmist said, “the word of GOD Is like a lamp unto my feet”....one o two post

31

where is the proof that the holy spirit is an impersonal active force?

by javig in

jw
friends

what exaclty does the jw mean by force regarding the hs?.

how that force came to exist in the first place?.

if jah used that force to create the universe...would that force ever vanish?

javig

why when we discuss about the deity of jesus and the HS as a person always tends to lead to the trinity?...may be because is obvious?...

i have found in order to deny the trinity people has to come with some non-sense arguments and reasons. They (JW and any who refuse) like to point to the “greek” meaning and grammar as they authority of spiritual truths. For some, like JW, they can’t understand the trinity because it doesn’t make sense rather they want they JAH to make sense. They put JAH in the same level as humans logic since the trinity is non-sense, they said “if it doesn’t make sense for me it doesn’t make sense for JAH” but they own JAH says:

Isaiah 55: 8 “For the thoughts of YOU people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways YOUR ways,” is the utterance of Jehovah. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts. (NWT Bible)……

let JAH be JAH…we know that the Trinity is a mystery but he has reveal to us enough revelation in order to trust HIM…unless you(JW and those who deny the trinity) want to make your own image of JAH…which one you choose?....

31

where is the proof that the holy spirit is an impersonal active force?

by javig in

jw
friends

what exaclty does the jw mean by force regarding the hs?.

how that force came to exist in the first place?.

if jah used that force to create the universe...would that force ever vanish?

javig

how can a force(HS) be "grieving" according to the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

ephesians 4:30 "Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit"....

how exaclty a "force" can feel a grieve? please someone explain...

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

javig

To aguest;

Oh, please... stop. You won’t answer because (1) you cannot (so now you are mind reader?) and (2) you realized that my response to you regarding your statement to me as to pointing you to the Bible was valid....(1)i can answer your questions but what will be the purpose of it? You don’t believe in the bible to be inspired why should I answer you? It will be a waist of time right now….but if you really want my answers you have to overcome your own doubts about the bible…like I said before, I can help you as long as you meet my conditions…(2) what is valid? Thinking that jesus is a god and using the not inspired word of GOD(as you told me) to show me he is a god, and he is the holy spirit, you consider that valid?...not me but I thank you for doing so, in your eyes your point was valid but not on mines…

First, you don’t see the bible as the inspire word of GOD…second, for some reason you read it and reference something that is not inspire (contradiction from your part)…third, because you don’t see it been inspire is a guarantee you will misunderstand it…forth, you love to single out one text to preach your so call “revelation” from the lord not considering how your “revelation” applies, affects and contradicts the rest of scriptures, Jesus never did that …fifth, I understand your struggle; you have been deceive by the father of lies, I understand your weakness; a deceive person don’t know and how was deceive…sixth, call me a man of “lack of faith” by trusting the written words of my LORD JESUS CHIRST. At least I don’t put words in his mouth or script torture everything He said…seventh, you will answer to HIM one day and you will be surprised that he is not a god, but the GOD-MAN…eight, I pray that GOD will correct you and repent before your death.

The only thing you’re “interested” in right now is avoiding answering the question as to WHOM it was that Paul was referring to at 2 Corinthians 3:17…I am not avoiding your answer read my previous post to why I did not answer your question earlier…you asked again here is my answer…Paul was referring to the Spirit, speaking of one person…there, you have my answer, not to your liking? I cant help you there....

Ummmm… sorry, no. No more pearls…well you call your preexistence “pearls”…let me take a look at it...you proclaim you have the truth from the LORD mouth then share it…be like Jesus, he helped Thomas to overcome his doubts…

In the mean time let me do this….Since you love to practice a text out of context..let me do that too …

this is your condition….

Zechariah 7:11-13 (New King James Version)

11 “But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear. 12 Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the LORD of hosts. 13 Therefore it happened, that just as He proclaimed and they would not hear, so they called out and I would not listen,” says the LORD of hosts.

You should me praying to Jesus this words

Psalm 119

12 Blessed are You, O LORD!
Teach me Your statutes.

16 I will delight myself in Your statutes;
I will not forget Your word.

48 My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
Which I love,
And I will meditate on Your statutes.

71It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.

Tell me how would you know in details the statues of the LORD unless HE wrote them somewhere? Today it came to be the bible. In the bible I find the statues of my LORD, but you don’t, but search before this happens to you

155 Salvation is far from the wicked,
For they do not seek Your statutes.

In the mean time I will do this

23 Princes also sit and speak against me,
But Your servant meditates on Your statutes.

I wonder who has a better revelation from the LORD, the writer of psalm 119 or you?

Read the story of Josiah and look what happened to his life after finding the book of the law (the scriptures back then) and tell me does the word of the LORD has power, no matter if its written down or verbal thru someone? Read here 2 kings 22 thru 23:3…

hope all this help in changing your views about the inspired word of GOD (OT and NT)