There is a big difference between a created being, Michael, ceasing to exist, a man being created, and then Michael recreated and God Himself coming in the flesh (Col. 2:9; Jn. 1:1-14; Phil. 2:5-11). Any false group can talk about generic jesus, a created being coming down, etc., but only biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity can know the Father through the God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ, Almighty God. It is a false Christ to deny His essential Deity and equality with the Father. Those who have left one lie (WT) are still peddling the same Arian lie and not coming to a knowledge of the truth. Don't listen to the generic jesus idea held by many still in false religion. Christianity is unique because Jesus is worshipped as God Almighty, who He said He was. Trusting a counterfeit Christ is worthless. This does not mean one has to understand or even embrace the trinity to be saved (we are saved by grace through faith, not theological perfection). One can confess that Jesus is YHWH before understanding the triune implications (catch up later). The early church related to Jesus as God and God as trinity even without formal creeds and explanations that came later in response to heretical attacks like Arianism. One cannot be a Christian and deny who He is (God).
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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The meetings used to make me physically sick.
by FifthOfNovember init's 9:10 sunday morning.
i'm dressed already, and just finished rushing through my watchtower a few seconds ago.
now i need to wait for my ride to pick me up (i couldn't drive yet).
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godrulz
It would be normal, even those with the truth, to be nervous about meeting strangers, rejection, unknown, etc. I could not witness effectively without the indwelling Spirit and authority of His Word. He gives grace when we obey. I think Christians experience demonic opposition, something a JW would not have (but still prone to spirit of oppression/deception as they peddle a false religion). It does go to show you that the public persona of JWs/Mormons is not the same as private. They are as human as the rest of us non-groupies. Having said that, I appreciate people of faith/theists considering how godless and secular society is. I just long for those who are religious (useless) to have a personal relationship with God (the only way to go without residual baggage).
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"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
by Chalam inhi jwners!.
i had the opportunity to speak to a witness aquaintaince today.
the lord had put him on my heart some years ago.
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godrulz
I am not sure why you guys equate false religion with biblical truth. Just because you were burned by a false group does not mean there are not true believers out there. The Bible is true, but it must be translated/interpreted properly. I don't need help because I have a relationship with God in Christ. I am not part of a false cult started by one man a century + ago (JW, Mormon, Armstrong, Christian Science, Unitarian, etc.).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
We cannot judge individual hearts, but Paul defended and proclaimed the true gospel (Jude 3) and condemned false gospels/christs (Gal. 1:6-10; 2 Cor. 11:4). I am not saying any one group or denomination are true Christians, but that all who trust the true vs false Christ are (so deciding on whether He is God or creature is the most basic issue). So, I have brothers in many denominations (hard for authoritarian groups to grasp; they have uniformity, but we have unity on essentials/diversity on other things). I can say, based on Scripture, that Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, JWs, Armstrong, Koresh, Moonies, Jim Jones, Buddhists, etc. are not true Christians (as a whole). Scripture is the authority, truth is absolute vs relative, the way is narrow, but it is not the WT, it is Jesus (Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Are there any trinitarians here?
Who else believes that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh?
Personality of the Holy Spirit?
i.e. are there any true Christians here, or just those turned off WT to varying degrees? Leaving false religion to a vacuum is not great when a relationship with the true God is to be had (and necessary for abundant/eternal life).
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Struggling
by anniegirl76 ini have been df-ed for almost 9 years.
just out of curiosity, has anyone decided to find another religion or belief after being jw?
i struggle with my feelings, my mom and brother, aunt, cousins are all jw.
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godrulz
A secular definition of a cult would include abusive mind-control, shunning tactics that break up families, authoritarian leaders who are not to be questioned, etc. A biblical, technical definition would be a group that deviates significantly from biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity on essential areas like the doctrine of God, Christology, soteriology (salvation), etc. The WT does indoctrinate people and brain wash with theocratic organization group think, endless literature, endless meetings, etc. They discourage independent thinking to the point that you must believe error until new light comes. If the new light is wrong (WT has flip flopped many times on various issues like Rom. 13 interpretation), then one must still believe it until they correct again or revert back. We should believe truth and discern error instead of having someone else dictate what we believe. We are responsible to interpret and apply Scripture and will be without excuse for following men, not God. Separation/anxiety/anger, etc. is normal when one leaves a false group. Someone can leave a true church and not have been brainwashed. They could have formulated beliefs on their own and know what and why they believed it. They can walk away from this. Others are indoctrinated (David Koresh; Jim Jones, infamous cult leaders that killed people, like WT blood issue) and leave on their own. WT does use mind control techniques, whereas most true Christian churches do not (they are not based on one leader, one organization, uniformity of same literature/meetings, threats of kicking out if deviate, etc. I can disagree with my pastor and denomination on many issues, and I am not threatened, coerced, guilted, manipulated, etc. If I fall into grievous sin or doctrinal error, I can be disciplined or disfellowshipped, but not in the WT shunning way; I would still be able to talk to people, etc. since it is between me and God, not me and an impersonal, autocratic organization). Those in false religion do not usually recognize their plight. Once out, they can look back and see how wrong things were. As an outsider (never been JW), I see how corrupt and wrong the WT is. I have freedom to investigate without risk of being kicked out of the kingdom, something only Jehovah vs man can do.
What you guys are really looking for and need is a love relationship with the true Jesus (YHWH), not a cruel organization that thinks for you at the expense of your freedom and eternal destiny (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16; Rom. 10:9-10; I Jn. 5:11-13). A JW must go through many hoops to have any concept of being saved (and never really know until after millennium), whereas a true Christian can become one in a moment (see Acts 2) and have assurance of eternal life NOW, because it is based on grace through faith, not endless works that don't make us perfect, God's standard (Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5).
One does not have to have all the answers to come as you are to the Lord Jesus Christ, God of gods, King of kings, Lord of lords. He is a prayer away and the Spirit will open up understanding once you know Him. There is merit to having a minimal amount of doctrine to ensure one is renouncing false teaching (WT) and embracing the true gospel/Christ (2 Cor. 11:4; Gal. 1:6-10; Jude 3). This is my prayer for all of you 2 Tim. 2:24-26 (check www.biblegateway.com for various translations; NWT is a sectarian perversion that systematically twists Scripture to its own destruction, especially the Deity of Christ verses).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
Tongues are prayer, praise, worship to God. They are supernatural, our mind is unfruitful, and we speak to God (I Cor. 14). There is a difference between the public, corporate expression of tongues in the church that must be interpreted for edification and a personal, devotional use to God that is for self-edification (I Cor. 14:4). It is also the initial, physical evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit in a fuller way than at conversion for power to be a witness (Acts 1:8; Acts 2:4). At Pentecost, the speakers did not understand their language, but some in the audience recognized it. This was not preaching (Peter preached in a learned language), but declaring the wonders of God. The WT, Baptists, Mormons, etc. are wrong to think that tongues is for preaching to foreigners (would be rare exception). Tongues are a perfect prayer language to God. The speaker did not learn nor understand them. If my tongues is Hindi, I would be praising God in this language. If a Hindi speaker was in the room, they would understand what was being said. It would be prayer to God, not preaching at them. The WT is clueless about spiritual gifts (as are cessationists in my Christian circles). This is a peripheral issue compared to Christology and soteriology.
Wontleave...you should really leave any grip of the WT so you can find biblical truth and the true God.
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37
The meetings used to make me physically sick.
by FifthOfNovember init's 9:10 sunday morning.
i'm dressed already, and just finished rushing through my watchtower a few seconds ago.
now i need to wait for my ride to pick me up (i couldn't drive yet).
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godrulz
How did you guys feel about going door-to-door? Even true Christians have fears of rejection, not being able to answer, etc. when witnessing. It must also be sickening to realize you have wasted time, money, life in a false religion and now wonder about the possibility of God's anger forever or no other viable option? I would be devastated, angry, confused, etc. It would be hard to trust anyone (guys like me) or anything again. Once burned, twice shy. Good, sincere people can be deceived, but some things are a consequence for not listening to the warnings of the Spirit/Word or investigating all sides before jumping in (in the internet age, there is no excuse to become or remain a JW, Mormon, Muslim, etc.).
Truly Jesus (Lord God) is the only one who can heal, deliver, save, set free, give abundant/eternal life. His yoke is easy and burden light. Come to Him all you who are weary/thirsty. Flee false religion, no matter what the cost.
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37
The meetings used to make me physically sick.
by FifthOfNovember init's 9:10 sunday morning.
i'm dressed already, and just finished rushing through my watchtower a few seconds ago.
now i need to wait for my ride to pick me up (i couldn't drive yet).
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godrulz
There is above average incident of mental illness among JWs. The system would make me mentally and physically sick too. This is why I hate false religion and desire to share the freedom and joy of a true relationship with God in Christ.
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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godrulz
The triune understanding does not have contradictions (since He is one in one sense and plural in another sense). The WT straw man caricature of the trinity does have contradictions, so I would also reject their distorted view of what it teaches.
I speak in tongues, but I do not handle snakes. Hell is a biblical truth that Russell rejected (if he had not, we might not have all the deception and ruined lives from the modern WT). Don't create an idol god in your own image. Hell is consistent with the love and holiness of God. Annihilation is not everlasting punishment, tormented day and night forever and ever. For those who live like the devil, it would be a reward and not justice. The nature of the spirit-soul is the other issue. The WT is wrong about conscious existence after death, nature of death, nature of soul. If they would get that right, hell would follow logically and biblically. Jesus taught about heaven, earth, and hell. We exalt the love of God, but not at the expense of His holiness.