Jesus taught about heaven or hell. Is he a nut? Annihilationism and universalism are lies. Do you have a problem with truth (I refuse to let JWs or ex-JWs make Truth a dirty word)?
godrulz
JoinedPosts by godrulz
-
160
Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
-
-
-
160
Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
-
-
godrulz
False dichotomy. You can life for King Self, die, spend eternity conscious separated from the love, power, glory, presence, majesty, holiness, person of God/Christ OR you can surrender your life to the Lord Jesus Christ as YHWH and live with Him forever. Choosing to be a JW cultist would be a waste of life (but at least you would be a non-smoker who can drink alcohol) and eternity as would choosing to live as an atheist, Muslim, Mormon, Buddhist, etc.
There is a true God to know or reject, a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. Annihilation is not a legit option (manmade vs divine idea).
-
132
Hello
by Chariklo ini am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.
i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.
i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.
-
-
godrulz
I wonder if many have heard of Mark Gabriel. His books are very readable and he does have credibility to speak on 'true' vs moderate/Westernized Islam. The contrast between Jesus and Muhammad is powerful.
-
160
Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
-
-
godrulz
One of my former co-workers is a DF JW. I felt genuine love and compassion for him as a person and would walk alongside him if I could, especially to know the love of God in Christ. I was surprised at the negative, judgmental attitudes of JWs who knew him that I also ran into. They seemed to gloat in his demise, tsk, tsk, with no brokenness or compassion to see him restored. He was a broken person, not a horrible anti-JW type. If someone from our church falls, we reach out in love, continue the relationship, pray for full redemptive restoration vs punitive manipulation. It is one thing to be a hard-hearted rebel in significant sin. It is another thing to get DF for an endless list of fairly minor things that could merit discipline, not DF (harsh, controlling, not biblical model).
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
godrulz
Wrestling with the deity of Christ is not quarelling about useless words. A sound Christology is the bare minimum, not an endless doctrinal checklist of peripheral issues. Using your logic, talking theism with an atheist is a bad thing because it might ruffle their feathers.
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
godrulz
dog: Very little remains about what Pelagius said firsthand. Too much of his ideas are based on what his enemies attributed to him or misunderstood about himi. My view is based on Scripture, not the teachings of one man that I am not even that familiar with (I do know he was extreme compared to Finney and Arminius). I fully trust the character and attributes of God, but do not trust the Calvinistic distortions of them. Boo Calvinism for impugning the character and ways of God. God is not unjust to chose Israel over Egypt, but He would be unjust to arbitrarily decree salvation for some sinners, but not others. Even Calvin said that double predestination is odious, yet believed it anyway (to retain a flawed view of God's will). Calvinism undermines the impetus for preaching the gospel, prayer, etc. We are not doing ex-JWs a favor to get them into Calvinism vs biblical Christianity.
wontleave, give me a break...
-
160
Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
-
-
godrulz
Keeping track of field service hours, meeting attendance, book studies, blood, smoking, holidays, etc. show that JWs are Pharisees who do not have a clue about the love and grace of God. Loving obedience flows out of right relationship with God, but is not the basis for salvation/security. The Bible emphasizes moral issues, not the endless list of externals that merely show loyalty to an organization, not God. One does not need to be associated with WT to be saved, but they make it a mediator between God and man while minimizing Christ, practically and theoretically.
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
godrulz
Finney was not a Pelagian (who was extreme, but also misunderstood/misrepresented by Calvinists). This is the same false accusation as Calvinists saying that Arminianism is Pelagian for rejecting Calvinistic principles (straw man). I disagree with Calvinistic theology. Finney rightly attacked the damaging hyper-Calvinism of his day. I have heard Piper and his Calvinistic implications. Calvinism elevates a hyper-sovereignty view above God's love, holiness, etc., more fundamental aspects of who He is. Determinism is not a biblical view, so pick a free will theism. Christ was not a fatalistic Calvinist, nor was Paul. Augustine was unduly influenced by Platonic philosophy and boasted about combining Christianity with Greek philosophy. I like Piper's heart for world evangelism, even though it is inconsistent with his Calvinistic beliefs. F.F. Bruce is a great Pauline scholar even if he is wrong about Calvinism.
If you are going to reject Finney, at least understand him. B.B. Warfield wrote against Finney, but he consistently misquoted him out of context (like WT does with scholars). Warfield attacked a straw man view of Finney. Read the response that gives the full quotes and see how Calvinists misunderstand and misrepresent alternate views.
Having dealt with the Calvinism, Arminian, Open Theist, Molinists debate for years on other forums, so turn Calvinism into a cult/sect, making TULIP the gospel. TULIP is wrong on all points. If Calvinism was biblical, I would be a Calvinist. I believe in the sovereignty of God, but not a hyper-sovereignty view that is not biblical.
This in-house debate is irrelevant on this forum when we are dealing with core issues (salvific) like the Deity of Christ with cultists.
-
160
Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
-
-
godrulz
When I was at their Convention, I was able to share how one can get right with God with the gospel as a plane was about to crash and kill us. They could not give me a gospel presentation without months of book study/indoctrination, so they let me die with the hope I might get resurrected in the future to study and convert?! In Acts, people were saved on the spot as the person and work of Christ was preached (and baptized the same day). In cults, indoctrination and an endless treadmill is required leaving one with still no assurance. What a rip off (man's ways vs God's ways...we can add nothing to His shed blood).
John Wesley (Methodist) would have bopped the 89 year old on the head. If he was a Christian, not a nominal Methodist, he would not fear hell or death (Rev. 1:17-18). He would have assurance of eternal life in Christ. The way to deal with the fear of death and hell is not to deny it (demonic lie), but to run to the mercy of God in Christ. Russell rejected hell-fire which tickles itching ears, elevates reason above divine revelation, gives false vs true assurance. The Methodist had a panacea by believing a lie, not a true deliverance from fear/hell. Simplistic answers are not always right.
-
132
Hello
by Chariklo ini am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.
i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.
i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.
-
-
godrulz
Podo: The OT Palestinian covenant, etc. relates to Israel. The NT relates to the Church. We should not confuse the future covenant fulfillments with Israel and the promises to the Church. Church Age saints (and OT ones) all have a heavenly hope. The only ones on earth in the millennium will be the survivors of Armageddon.
findingway: JWs are inconsistent to take the number 144K literally, but the Jewish 12 tribe thing figuratively. Both can and should be taken literally. The context of Rev. 6-19 is the future Tribulation (Daniel's 70th week....saying a verse in the middle of this refers to the 1935 JW Convention shows how clueless the WT is in its pseudo-scholarship). The 144,000 are Jewish Christians on earth during the Tribulation raised up by God. They are not an elite group of a few JWs that are anointed/born again (the Bible says all followers of Christ must be born again and have a heavenly hope). The Great Crowd in Revelation is actually before the throne in heaven. They are the ones martyred during this future time (so JWs have it all backwards). God will use and preserve the 144K. Making a big doctrine on two classes out of 2 verses shows that WT does not do exegesis, just imports ideas on the text and then twist them to make them fit (objections about Dan not being mentioned are easily answered).
Instead of ex-JWs being turned off God, Bible, Church, they need to get healed from their negative experiences, deal with the reasons they were deceived, and move on to follow God and the Bible the right way. There is nothing to fear from knowing the true God, fellowshipping with a Christ-centered/Bible-centered local church, growing in sound doctrine to dispel false teaching. This will lead to freedom and maturity. Overreacting and disdaining the possibility of knowing truth that sets free keeps one where Satan wants them (if he can't keep you from God, he will be happy to have you in a false religion; if one wants to be a pagan, that works fine too; religion is of the devil, not God. Relationship with God is the way to go and it does not happen apart from Christ, Word, Spirit.