oppostate

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Posts by oppostate

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  11

  OMG They are right here in River City!

  by myway2007 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jacksonville, fl - the local newspaper had an article on the convention going on for the next two weekends.

  while i could not find the article, i was able to find this slide show of this weekend's events.

  the newspaper article was interesting as it discussed what a wonderful job they were doing cleaning the arena seats and bathrooms and everyone was enjoying their job.

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  oppostate

  @myway2007

  Indeed, and the "Society" is assigning retiring CO's to the area as well. Apparently there's a need and it's considered fertile ground for expansion.

  Ex-CO Tom Chin (forced to retire due to turning 70, although he looks 50) and last assigned around here (Mass.) will be heading down in August, and spending special pioneer hours in service down in Jacksonville area (poor guy, imagine the heat and humidity).

  In the Spanish congregation they are bemoaning the fact that a lot of second and third generation Latinos are more at ease speaking English than Spanish and attending English language meetings.

  So if we put the two together the only real increase worth noticing can be found among communities with a heavy Latino presence.
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  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  @wizzstick

  Wait let me turn off troll mode for a second.

  • Greg Stafford (former JW apologist and founder of the Christian Witnesses of Jah)???

  Oh boy...

  Greg shows the extant forms found in the Hebrew Scriptures could be transliterated as Jah, Jahoh and Jahoah.

  Take a look at his explanatory notes:

  http://elihubooks.blogspot.com/2011/04/christian-witnesses-of-jah-jahoh-ah-god.html
  
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  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  @wizzstick

  
  

  http://www.amazon.com/Name-Y-eH-oW-aH-Which-Pronounced-Written/dp/0761822046/
  
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  @freemindfade stop trolling around.

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  So I can see the 4 vowels, but I can't find anyone suggesting it's pronounced "Yeh-hoo-ahh" aside from you?

  Peruse some published references available from these two others:

  • Gérard Gertoux (president of the Association Biblique de Recherche d'Anciens Manuscrits)
  • Greg Stafford (former JW apologist and founder of the Christian Witnesses of Jah)

  
  
  
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  Can you name this source please?

  Sure, see Josephus (The Jewish War. V:235).

  Jehovah and Yahweh are not "both wrong" they are English translations of the same original name in Hebrew YHWH (JHVH), which was written only in consonants, but given clues like Judah=YHWDH (Yeh-hoo-dahh) and using "mater lectionis," as is written, one would pronounce YHWH as Yeh-hoo-ahh.
  
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  wizzstick:
  The table below shows the vowel points of Yehovah and Adonay,

  You keep dwelling on the Masoretic tradition, and I repeat myself that this was a late development in the text. Josephus predates that by almost a millennium.

  Besides how do you explain that in many texts the tetragrammaton only has a schewa and a qamats? The holam vowel does not appear in thousands of instances among the four consonants. This is thought to correspond to a redaction on the usage of ADONAY's vowels and pointed to a more accurately Hebrew term, which although pronounceable was substituted by SHEMA (meaning "the Name").

  The pointing of this redaction lacks the holam, thus rendering it as YEH-HOO-AHH.

  In Latin, Martin the monk, used IEHOVAH because the Latin I sounded like our English Y, later the initial I became a J since the consonantal I came to be written as J.

  He also wrote V because in Latin V was both a vowel sound like OO and a consonant sound like W, it wasn't pronounced as V in English back then in Latin. In later pronunciation changes the consonantal V (W sound) became what we pronounce as V in English, this change has happened in many languages like in German and Dutch where the W is a V sound, and even in modern Hebrew the letter Waw has come to be Vav.

  Today's Jehovah comes from IEHOVA(H) in Latin from Hebrew YHWH (JHVH). The research supports that using Jehovah is as good as using Yahweh. They are merely English translations for the Divine Name which could be more credibly pronounced in Ancient Hebrew as YEH-HOO-AHH.

  
  
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

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  oppostate

  wizzstick [...] Based on this reasoning, the form יְהֹוָה (Jehovah) has been characterized by some as "hybrid form",and even "a philological impossibility".

  I notice what you quoted from Wikipedia, and really the "hybrid form" of Adonay and Jhvh is a "philological impossibility." YHWH (JHVH) cannot be pronounced using the exact vowel points of ADONAY.

  I don't doubt that Strong's number 3068 term (יְהֹוָה) was constructed by the masoretes and to use the same vowels would be a pronouceable "impossibility."

  There is ample proof that the Saducee (Priestly) tradition is different from the Pharisaic (Rabinic) tradition. Whereas the Pharisees objected to the pronunciation of the name, the High Priest did utter it in worship.

  Josephus was of priestly descent and his mother claimed loyal ancestry. He knew about God's name and the superstition not to pronounce it, nevertheless he points out that it is pronounced just as it is written.

  The earliest texts of the Masoretes, who put vowel points on the text, only date back to the 10th century, a full thousand years after Josephus.

  Without the vowel points, as these were added much later by the Masoretes, the Hebrew text was usually read with "mater lectionis" these were consonants that gave clues to pronunciation for example using the letter Heh for AH and Yod for I, or W for U/OO, and basically used as vowel markers. Thus Josephus says the Divine Name is pronounced as written, in Latin it has four vowels I, O, U, E, that is Jove which transliterated YHWH which was pronounced in Hebrew Yeh-hoo-ahh, like IOSUE which translated Yeh-ho-shu-a (Jehoshua, Joshua, Jesus).
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oppostate

  @goingthruthemotions
  

  35 minutes ago

  oppostate.... lets review.......... it's a mindcontrolling CULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  If you could refute this, than do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  I don't refute that the WT religion may be a cult.

  What I'm objecting to is that folks repeat a "Catholic monk didn't know any better and started using Jehovah for the proper name of God" mantra.

  How what I pointed out can "bring one again and again to the same conclusions" that "religion and gods are all man made inventions" is totally irrelevant to the discussion I started, in fact you and others are just trolling the topic because of your own atheistic views.

  If this OP is irrelevant to you and your personal views then don't post in it. Go swing your cojones at some other discussion topic.
• 
  91

  Why using Jehovah for God's name is as good as using Yahweh

  by oppostate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in another thread i wrote some notes about why using jehovah in english is as good as using yahweh.

  i'm starting a discussion on this topic because it sounds quite ignorant to hear people talk of the monk who started using it in latin without really understanding why the monk did so.. the spanish dominican monk, raymundus martini, in 1270, didn't get hoodwinked by an old jewish superstition about pronouncing the divine name with the vowel points of another word.. 1. first the vowel points of adonay and jehovah cannot be the same for grammatical reasons.

  you just can't use the same vowel points because some vowels aren't paired with some consonants in pronouncing hebrew words.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  oppostate

  I have read that the samaritan pronunciation eludes to Yahweh being most accurate, using the vowels from their pronunciation 'Jabe' A E.

  The Samaritans had a temple on Mt. Gerizim and claimed, and still do claim, they follow the God of the Israelites as found in the Torah. Unfortunately the temple was conquered and dedicated to the Greek Zeus.

  Jupiter (Deus Pater) is the Latin for Zeus. Jupiter's more ancient name in Latin is Jove. And... Jove was pronounced back then in Latin as JAW-WAY. When the Romans took control of Jerusalem a temple to Zeus Olympus was dedicated on the temple mount.

  It is very typical of Latin names to transliterate Hebrew masculine names ending in AH as AY, for example Josue is Latin for Yehoshua (our English Joshua).

  If Josue is from Yehoshua, you can see how Jove is from Yehowah.

  The name Jehovah is no more an invention than Jehoshua, Jehoshaphat, Jehoadah, Jehoaddan, Jehoahaz, Jehoash, Jehohanan, Jehoiada, Jehoiakim, Jehoiarib, Jehonadab, Jehonathan, Jehoram, Jehosheba, Jehozabad, Jehozadak, or for that matter, Jehu, Jehubbah, Jehucal, Jehud, Jehudi, Jehudijah, Jehush, not to mention the names that end in -jah from -yahu.