Posts by Wonderment

43

I have a question on the Circuit Accounts Scam thread

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

i didn't want it to get buried and i'd really like to know.. so i knew pretty much what he was saying was true, but what i don't get is how the creative accounting works.. i mean you have to show expenses on the ledger - and i mean real expenses, like the co/do expenses along with receipts.. you have actual costs for the power coming into the building.

the paper supplies and cleaning supplies.

the vacuum cleaners and mops and other sundry items, and you have to have receipts for all that.. i also know that when you made a "donation" it was off the books at the circuit level as far as accounts were concerned.. but how is money not being accounted for?.

Wonderment

I don't trust their accounting methods anymore than I do of their application of scriptures such as Acts 20:20 (house-to-house) and Matthew 24:45 (faithful and discreet slave).

49

Inactive (i.e. not reporting) witnesses won't survive armageddon

by Mickey mouse in

did anyone else catch this in the talk at the convention 'are you behaving as kingdom citizen?'.

.

Wonderment

godrulz said: "Stats and accountability may have a place in sales, etc., but to make it a tool for assessing character, loyalty to God/org., salvation stick, etc. is wrong and unprecedented for true Christians who freely share their faith without record keeping for men that can be used against you."

How true!

27

Pentecostal Madness: Panties, Wife swapping, aggression and epylepsy

by Wonderment in

though i have never been a pentecostal, i remember well the frequent stories i heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past.

i wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

one story i heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them.

Wonderment

dgp: You are entitled to your opinion, i.e. that I feel the Watchtower is better. Though I have never said that, but I tend to react depending on the audience. Don't we all do that at times?

If I see a lot of folks attacking the WTS here like if it was the worst evil imaginable... like if there is not anything good to be found there, I may react by pointing out something good about them to even things out, or something equally bad of other religions. But when I talk to JW's inside the Borg, I focus on the problems there. My brother for instance, don't want to see me at all, or hear from me. He thinks the opposite of you. And he certainly knows me better than you do. One of my daughters did not address a word to me for over 7 years. Ouch! In fact, I don't even know where she lives. Why?

Because I said some things which made her feel like I was attacking Jehovah's Organization. And the rest of my family avoid me like I had leprosy. Watchtower better? I don't think so. However hurt I feel about the way I have been treated for nearly 20 years since I left the WTS, I make an effort not to dwell on hate, since I realize I have no right to do any judging (though I fail more than I would like). I also remember James words (2:13): "Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment." Thus, we need to be merciful to everyone. Easier said than done.

Though I have brought out some mishaps with my experiences with Pentecostals, I too have seen many Witnesses act very non-Christian toward others. In business dealings, I don't see how others could be worse than Witnesses taking advantage of their brothers, with fraud, non-payment of debts, etc. Sex wise, I have seen homosexuals in various congregations acting out. One sister, wife of an elder was having sex with another woman when her husband caught them in action. And how many times did I experience a sister trying to "cock-tease" me even though they were married. One time, as a traveling salesperson, I was passing by this street where an elder lived and his wife waved at me and asked me to come in. I did. I know it was wrong, but I did it anyway. Well, this elder's wife made sure to bend over with no bra and played with a kitten for a while, exposing her "soul" and during that time she kept looking at my crotch. Christian spirit? Not while I was there. But though I was turned on, I went away without touching or insinuating any sexual intention on my part, Yes, I did wrong by watching the scene, but in time corrected my sinful tendency.

I could cite many other experiences. I have seen JW's pick up a total stranger at the Mall and have sex with the stranger ending in pregnancy, without ever knowing the other person's name. I have heard similar stories all around. Pentecostals may be more aggressive in some areas, but JW's are more secretive in their sinful ways.

How true the bible statement: "[We] all have sinned and fall short of God's glory." (Romans 3:23)

27

Pentecostal Madness: Panties, Wife swapping, aggression and epylepsy

by Wonderment in

though i have never been a pentecostal, i remember well the frequent stories i heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past.

i wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

one story i heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them.

Wonderment

For those who think that I think the Watchtower folks are much better than Pentecostals or other, let me just say that I am against organized religion. Period! Whether its the WT or Pentecostal, Baptist or other, I see flaws in all of them because they are all human.

The only thing I am pointing out is that for some reason, I had more access to Pentecostal experiences from "door-to-door" service than from other groups. Here in USA, I have had more experience with Evangelical Protestants, (Baptists, etc). From my exposure of three main groups, Pentecostals, Baptists, and JW's, the Pentecostals get more easily fired up from bible discussion. But JW's are just as self-righteous, and closed up, if not more, than other religious groups, but they are usually more cunning with their approach.

For instance, the Pentecostals and Baptists attack JW's in derogatory language, plenty of books out there are found focusing on "cults," and I have read many of them. The language is not pretty. It is insulting to not only JW's, but also insulting to the intelligence of evangelicals as well, by heavy twisting of facts and half-truths. On the other hand, the JW's do not write any books focusing on just one group, they usually attack the Catholics and Protestants in blanket fashion. And the tone of language is more subtle, "smoothed out" compared to the tone exhibited by cultist books. The end result is the same. One is not justified over the other. Both camps fail miserably at portraying Scripture. I see good and bad in both. And I for one, admit candidly that the "shunning" of JW's is as evil as anything evil of Catholics and Protestants. In the shunning department, the JW's win... they take it to the extreme and make the Pentecostals look tame. But the JW's do not kill directly in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, but indirectly they "kill" as well. Just different methods, but the end result is not so different between the groups. Both camps have a lot of accounting to do before the Father and the Son. I also believe that INDIVIDUALS from any of these groups, if sincere, can find truth and wisdom in God's Word.

27

Pentecostal Madness: Panties, Wife swapping, aggression and epylepsy

by Wonderment in

though i have never been a pentecostal, i remember well the frequent stories i heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past.

i wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

one story i heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them.

Wonderment

Perhpas we all have seen strange things happen in the JW's religious movement as well. But generally speaking, JW's come across as milder than Pentecostals. Pentecostals for some reason, can become nasty and mean. I will give you an example.

While I stayed in the Caribbean for a few years, I used to go this Kingdom Hall which incidentally had a Pentecostal Church right next to the KH's backyard, and distance wise, very close. Back then, air conditioning was not common in the island among Church buildings. So, it was almost impossible to enjoy our meetings because all the noise they would make. This went on for months, until one of the elders, which I remember was a very nice mild-mannered man, went over to the Pastor of their Church to bring it to their attention. He got very reactive, even threatening the elder, and told him that it was not going to change one bit. The pastor told the JW elder to seal up the Kingdom Hall if it bothered them.

Guess what, after that confrontation, Pentecostals got louder. Yes, they raised the volume of their amplifier to annoy us further. Then they started throwing their garbage over our fences. This went on for months, and I came to admire the "Christian" spirit manifested by the JW elders in this case, in constrast with the evil inclinations of the other religious party. We just kept picking up the garbage week after week, month after month. As regards to the noise, the congregation had to save some money before they had air conditioning installed in the KH. Even so, we could hear their noise. I was there for about five years and in most of that time, there was not one sign from any of the Pentecostals to seek communication with us, to calm things down.

With this experience, I am not implying that all Pentecostals are bad and that all JW's are as good behaving. Like I said before, I have met some Pentecostals which seemed more "Christian" than the average Witness.

27

Pentecostal Madness: Panties, Wife swapping, aggression and epylepsy

by Wonderment in

though i have never been a pentecostal, i remember well the frequent stories i heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past.

i wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

one story i heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them.

Wonderment

Though I have never been a Pentecostal, I remember well the frequent stories I heard of this religious movement while going from house-to-house in the past. I wonder if you guys heard similar stories.

One story I heard a few times was about the confession of some males going to Pentecostal churches to peek at girls throwing themselves all over the floor in epileptic movements, and some mention the word "panties" being exposed as an attraction to them. When I invited them to the Kingdom Hall, they said our meetings were too mild, nothing "provocative" to entice them to our meetings. No wonder they attract many converts. I guess Christ was not their main motive.

Also, one frequent story I heard from Pentecostals was that they had a lot gatherings, and women were the ones who supported the gatherings. Their husbands stayed home, and many pastors could not resist having all those lovely ladies going to church alone, and some ended up going to bed with them. A lot of marriages were broken this way.

Another thing I experienced more than a few times. Some Pentecostals were aggresive toward the Witnesses. Some have thrown their dogs at JW's at their door. Others have dumped a pail of water right on the JW's. And so on. Not to mention, that when it comes to bible discussion, they easily become fired up, some threatening.

Through the years, I met some really nice Pentecostals too, and some have surprised me with unusual zeal sorely lacking in the JW's org. Some seem to take their religious fervor seriously and pray sincerely. The apparent faith of some Pentecostals is amazing, compared with the cold, ritualistic approach of many Witnesses. But overall, the good impressions I have had with Pentecostals are outdone by the bad taste left over by my sour encounters with them.

5

According to the Bible (New World Translation), a generation dies away in forty years

by dgp in

i was reading "the heathens guide to world religions" (http://www.amazon.com/heathens-guide-world-religions-secular/dp/097315084x/ref=sr_1_1?ie=utf8&s=books&qid=1309714972&sr=8-1) and found an interesting thing.. i am sure all of you know that the israelites supposedly had to wander in the desert for 40 years, because of their "wickedness" that resulted in jehovah's angry decision that "none of them would enter the promised land".

this is the text, from deuteronomy 1, 36-40:.

34 all the while jehovah heard the voice of your words.

Wonderment

Thought provoking questions!

Certainly, the word "generation" is used here differently from the WTS' own definition which has been butchered by its writers. It has become a "laughing-stock" of our generation.

63

Who's the most intolerant religious group?

by Wonderment in

i would like to hear people's opinions on intolerant religious groups?

who wins?.

somehow, i have this notion that pentecostals would win 1st place, followed by baptists, followed by jw's.

Wonderment

The belief that just ONE religious group has the priviledged rights to TRUTH and everyone else is wrong is shortsighted. There is no evidence that one religious faith has the keys to the kingdom to the detriment of everyone else. God is more universal than that. He inspired the Scriptures and made them available for everyone. Even criminals in prison have acces to the power of the Word, and some have been transformed by its message.

Religion attacks serve the interests of Satan better than it serves God. Scripture says: "Who are you to judge your neighbor?" (James 4:12; Romans 14:10)

Thus, it becomes a test of our faith to keep a humble heart. Only God and Christ have the prerrogative to pass judgment. At the same time, we need to defend truth as we understand it, but acknowledging our limitations in power and knowledge. We as individuals cannot guarantee anyone eternal doom by carrying a label of a certain brand of christianity. I remember how JWs frequently implied how certain individuals in the kingdom hall would not be in paradise for lack of service activity. How foolish! We certainly don't want to go back to that premise by doing the same thing here in this forum. The Talmud reports somewhere that the religious arrogant in Jesus' day used to say of the "unlearned" (‘am ha-arets) how they would not be resurrected. And you know how Jesus felt about this self-righteous people... Mat. 23.

63

Who's the most intolerant religious group?

by Wonderment in

i would like to hear people's opinions on intolerant religious groups?

who wins?.

somehow, i have this notion that pentecostals would win 1st place, followed by baptists, followed by jw's.

Wonderment

Yes, I meant intolerance of other religions and other views, that they strongly believe they are the ONLY true religion. Also, intolerance in the sense of agressiveness and tendency to mock other religions and views not equal to theirs.

63

Who's the most intolerant religious group?

by Wonderment in

i would like to hear people's opinions on intolerant religious groups?

who wins?.

somehow, i have this notion that pentecostals would win 1st place, followed by baptists, followed by jw's.

Wonderment

I would like to hear people's opinions on intolerant religious groups? Who wins?

Somehow, I have this notion that Pentecostals would win 1st place, followed by Baptists, followed by JW's. What is your take?