Posts by Wonderment

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

jgnat: "Except, Wonderment, where the translator of the NWT chose to use ‘worship’ or ‘obeisance’. Wonder of wonders, ‘obeisance’ was used every time Jesus was worshipped. It was a pattern of selection based on doctrine, not the context of the text itself."

And how is this different from using red letters exclusively for Jesus Christ and not for the Father in some Bible versions? Didn't Jesus say,"the Father is greater than I am"? Was not the glorified Christ subject to the "head" (God) according to 1 Cor. 11:3?

It is odd to read on occasions in these versions where God the Father is speaking to Christ, and the ‘lesser’ Christ gets special attention by having red letters when Christs speaks, but not God who is above him. This red lettering convention seems to be "a pattern based on doctrine, not the context of the text itself."

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

Pterist: "Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

In a private letter to a Mr. David Burnett, Barclay acknowledged:

" You could translate, so far as the Greek goes; ‘the Word was a God ’; but it seems obvious that this is so much against the whole of the rest of the New Testament that it is wrong. I am quite sure myself that that the following is the correct translation."

“20 May 1974," - Book: “Ever Yours: A Selection from the Letters of William Barclay, edited by C. L. Rawlins (Dunbar 1985), pg. 205.

According to Barclay in 1974, it was not "intelectually dishonest" to translate as the NWT did in John 1:1, but theologically it was wrong, not that Greek-wise was not feasible.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

The word "worship" has changed in meaning through the centuries, so that it was understood differently in the KJV days than it is today.

The word "proskyneo" can mean both "worship" and "obeisance," depending on the context. The term cannot be used as a basis to determine the credibility of a translator by his choice of translation.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

jgnat: "Speaking of new and fresh, how about the Good News Translation (1966) and the Reader's Digest Bible (1982) (which reduced the OT by 55% and the NT by 25%)?"

I am not familiar with the Reader's Digest Bible. But the Good News Translation is one of my favorites.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

PSacramento: "Sure you can look at it as a ‘fresh’ translation, but that is giving it far more credit than it deserves. It is stale, boring and passionless. The portuguese and spanish translations are far better than the english.

By using the term "fresh" translation, I did not mean to say "superior" language results. To a certain degree it is "stale, boring and passionless." Smooth English was obviously not the goal of the translators. The NWT strengths are elsewhere.

I meant "fresh" in the sense that the translator(s) had to make hundreds, yes, thousands of decisions in the translation process throughout, that were made requiring sufficient knowledge of biblical languages and grammar, to stamp the work as unique in its field. It was not made by someone with little biblical knowledge.

I agree that the Portuguese and the Spanish translations of the NWT are better than the English version, because they were able to smooth out the clumsy literalness of the English version which slavishly followed the Hebrew and the Greek sources.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

jgnat: "Anonymity does not add credibility to the translation. Anonymity closes itself off from criticism."

I too have a preference for having the author's names of works I read. However, it is not a requirement to know the author's name to make a sound judgment of a book, or to benefit from it.

Professor Duthie: "If we know who the translators or the publishers of a particular Bible translation are, does it helps us to decide whether that translation is good or bad? Not directly. There is no substitute for examining the characteristics of each translation itself." (Bold and italics his.)

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

sir 82: "Wasn't Gangas Greek? Of course, Biblical Greek is different than modern Greek, but he may have been able to contribute something. But just by reading the tortured and overly literal language in some parts of the NWT, you can tell that Fred Franz was the principal author."

I agree with you fully.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

P. Sacramento:

"The NWT is a re-work of the ASV that the JW's used to use before they came out with the NWT, it is basically the ASV with additions and re-translations to be more in-line with JW doctrine."

I can see influences of the ASV, Rotherham, Concordant, Goodspeed and Moffatt versions in the translation work of the NWT. However, the NWT is distinct to all of them. It is a fresh translation, not a re-work of ASV or other. The translation process was obviously different than that of the KJV line of versions.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

soontobe: "If it's such a great translation, why don't they put the names in the translation? Other bibles have it, and you can check the qualifications of the people who did it."

MsD: "Those who were responsible for the KJV translation weren't trying to conceal their identity but whoever was responsible for the NWT obviously was."

Because the WTSociety applied their practice of anonymity they had in place to the NWT as well. To this day every WT publication is anonymous.

Dr. Walter E. Stuermann: "Since about the time of the beginning of Knorr's leadership (1942) all the publications of the Watchtower Society have been anonymous, including the volumes of their New World Translation of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures." (University of Tulsa, OK)

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

Caliber came up with a YouTube video showing that the WTBTS claimed the "NTW Committe was made up by highly trained Greek scholars." My question is, what WTS publication ever say that, literally? Could someone show me those exact words (in bold) I have never seen in print? What am I missing here?

This board apparently is composed of many anti-WT members, and I can see why. Some of these participants are oblivious to the fact that most NWT attacks originate from Evangelical sources. It seems to me that Evangelicals are just as bad as WT leaders in demonizing opponents, maybe worse.

Some keep bringing up the Walsh case and Walter Martin as clear proof of the NWT shaky beginnings.

However, the Walsh case only proves that Fred Franz ‘would not attempt to’ translate Genesis 2:4 from English to Hebrew, not that he couldn't. Was Franz obligated to answer a question from an examiner using sly tactics, irrelevant to the case at hand?

Bible versions that do not accept standard doctrine are scrutinized further than traditional versions. But this does not mean that tradition is always correct and those going against the standard are always wrong.

Besides, not all agree that the NWT is a poor translation:

The Catholic Encyclopedia stated: "The [NWT] work is excellent except when scientific knowledge comes into conflict with the accepted doctrines of the movement." The same could be said of the NIV and ESV with their evangelical agenda.

Walter E. Stuermann concluded: "When the [NWT] version is used with caution, it will be found valuable in several respects." It is strange that this professor of Tulsa, OK found some value in this Bible version, while some here with a WT past can't find any.

Andover Newton Quarterly: "This translation, as J. Carter Swain

observes, has its peluliarities and its excellences."

Jason BeDuhn: "‘Atrocious, deceitful, and inaccurate’ may be what

some call the NWT, but such a characterization is completely

erroneous."