Posts by Wonderment

11

Is the NWT a translation or simply a rewording w/ edits ?

by mP in

did they really start from teh greek, hebrew and aramaic texts and translate or did freddy and the friends simply take other bibles and reword each and every sentence.

naturally during this exercise they would have altered the text to make it comptaible with their eschatology.

i think this best explains what really happen during those sessions as they had no literary skills they honestly couldnt read the originals.. .

Wonderment

slimboyfat: "Which translation starts "originally" in the gospel of John? Is it Goodspeed's translation?

"Originally" was used by Rotherham, and the early editions of the NWT, probably in answer to the question? ...How should we render the first two words of John 1:1 (en arche) lacking the article?

As I stated in another related post, I can see where some translators influenced the NWT translation choices in some places (such as Rotherham, ASV, Emphatic Diaglott, Concordant, Goodspeed and Moffatt), but overall, the NWT went their own way.

The NWT did not choose anyone version to go by verse by verse. A close comparison of the NWT with the original texts show that the NWT was made directly as they say, from the Hebrew and Greek Texts, and not from another version.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

james_woods:

"Perhaps they "could have" done it in two years, Wonderment - but they didn't. How long they took proves nothing."

It may not "prove" anything, notwithstanding, any major Bible translation project takes more than 5 years. The NIV project had a cost of millions of dollars and many years of work to accomplish what they did. But the 6 simple steps suggested by a poster here is not realistic with what we know of the time the NWT project took. Even for a corporation of the magnitude of the WTBTS, projects requiring a long time and resources are weighted carefully.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

Pterist:

I ask of you:

Can you or someone else here show me just one scripture in the Bible where it says:

"God himself took this human flesh upon him." (William Barclay; Many Witnesses, One Lord, p27 )

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

Jeffro:

How to 'translate' the Bible, Watch Tower Society style:

Start with the text of the King James Version.
Perform a search-and-replace of archaic terms with modern words (e.g. moveth --> moving; shambles --> meat market, lest ye --> for fear you may)
Change awkward Old English word order (e.g. he commanded them not --> he had not proscribed for them)
Replace regular verbs with progressive verbs (e.g. he rested --> proceeded to rest; God called --> God went on to say)
Change passages where required for doctrinal bias. (e.g. for Babylon --> at Babylon; the angels of God worship him --> And let all God's angels do obeisance to him)
Proof-read and send to press.

If the NWT Committe had done what you are suggesting, they could have done their version in two years, not fourteen, which is the time they took to do their original version. Besides, had you done a thorough comparison of the NWT version with the Hebrew and Greek Texts, you would have found out that there are thousands of particulars which cannot be answered by your six suggestions. Thus, I cannot take your suggestions seriously.

I don't agree with all the translation choices of the NWT, just as I do not agree with other Bible versions translation choices all the time. But overall, most translators are sincere, and do a pretty good job at it, the NWT included. All translations fall short somewhere, because they are done by imperfect humans with limited knowledge.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

It is not the NWT alone who translate proskyneo as

"obeisance," or other, as for example in Heb. 1.6, where

Christ is spoken of:

“ And let them bow before him --all messengers of

God” (Young's Literal Translation)

‘ Now let all messengers of God honour him ’ (Ferrar

Fenton Translation)

“ And let all the angels of God pay him homage”

(George R. Noyes New Testament)

“ And all of God's messengers should bow down to

him.” (A Non-Ecclesiastical NT, Frank Daniel)

“ And prostrate yourselves to him all God's angels” (21 st Century New Testament)

“ And let do obeisance to him all angels of God”

(The Apostolic Bible Polyglot)

“ and let all God's angels do him reverence ” (The

Bible in Living English , Steven T. Byington)

“ Let all the angels of God bow down before him .”

(Open English Bible)

“ And let all the angels of God bow down to him ”

(Riverside New Testament , William G. Ballantine)

“ Dénle homenaje [ Give him homage ] todos los

ángeles de Dios [all angels of God] ” (Pablo

Besson)

“ Let all the messengers of God bow low before

him.”(2001 Translation - An American English

Bible)

“ And let all the messengers of God bow down in

deference to him.” (CGV, Joseph Morovich)

“ Let all the angels of God bow down before him ”

(Twentieth Century New Testament)

“ Let all God’s angels kneel before him.” (Cotton

Patch Version, Clarence Jordan)

“ And let all God's angels bow before him ” (Edgar J.

Goodspeed New Testament)

“ Et que tous les anges de Dieu lui rendent

hommage [And let all angels of God pay him

homage]” (French Darby Bible)

“ And let all God's angels pay him homage” (The

Authentic New Testament , Hugh J. Schonfield)

“ Before him shall bow all messengers of God”

(Andy Gaus New Testament)

“ Let all God's angels pay him homage ” (Revised

English Bible)

“ And may all the angels pay homage to him”

(Heinz W. Cassirer's New Testament)

“ Let all the angels of God pay him homage ” (New

Jerusalem Bible)

Quotes taken from :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48234022/Did-the-New-World-Translation-Committee-Know-Any-Greek

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

jgnat: "Except, Wonderment, where the translator of the NWT chose to use ‘worship’ or ‘obeisance’. Wonder of wonders, ‘obeisance’ was used every time Jesus was worshipped. It was a pattern of selection based on doctrine, not the context of the text itself."

And how is this different from using red letters exclusively for Jesus Christ and not for the Father in some Bible versions? Didn't Jesus say,"the Father is greater than I am"? Was not the glorified Christ subject to the "head" (God) according to 1 Cor. 11:3?

It is odd to read on occasions in these versions where God the Father is speaking to Christ, and the ‘lesser’ Christ gets special attention by having red letters when Christs speaks, but not God who is above him. This red lettering convention seems to be "a pattern based on doctrine, not the context of the text itself."

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

Pterist: "Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

In a private letter to a Mr. David Burnett, Barclay acknowledged:

" You could translate, so far as the Greek goes; ‘the Word was a God ’; but it seems obvious that this is so much against the whole of the rest of the New Testament that it is wrong. I am quite sure myself that that the following is the correct translation."

“20 May 1974," - Book: “Ever Yours: A Selection from the Letters of William Barclay, edited by C. L. Rawlins (Dunbar 1985), pg. 205.

According to Barclay in 1974, it was not "intelectually dishonest" to translate as the NWT did in John 1:1, but theologically it was wrong, not that Greek-wise was not feasible.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

The word "worship" has changed in meaning through the centuries, so that it was understood differently in the KJV days than it is today.

The word "proskyneo" can mean both "worship" and "obeisance," depending on the context. The term cannot be used as a basis to determine the credibility of a translator by his choice of translation.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

jgnat: "Speaking of new and fresh, how about the Good News Translation (1966) and the Reader's Digest Bible (1982) (which reduced the OT by 55% and the NT by 25%)?"

I am not familiar with the Reader's Digest Bible. But the Good News Translation is one of my favorites.

69

New World Translation

by MsD in

jw
friends

it may seem like a stupid question but who was responsible for translating their version of the bible?

i heard it was ray franz, several governing body members.

does anybody have any legitimate info that can prove who exactly translated it?

Wonderment

PSacramento: "Sure you can look at it as a ‘fresh’ translation, but that is giving it far more credit than it deserves. It is stale, boring and passionless. The portuguese and spanish translations are far better than the english.

By using the term "fresh" translation, I did not mean to say "superior" language results. To a certain degree it is "stale, boring and passionless." Smooth English was obviously not the goal of the translators. The NWT strengths are elsewhere.

I meant "fresh" in the sense that the translator(s) had to make hundreds, yes, thousands of decisions in the translation process throughout, that were made requiring sufficient knowledge of biblical languages and grammar, to stamp the work as unique in its field. It was not made by someone with little biblical knowledge.

I agree that the Portuguese and the Spanish translations of the NWT are better than the English version, because they were able to smooth out the clumsy literalness of the English version which slavishly followed the Hebrew and the Greek sources.