Posts by Wonderment

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

"What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?"

This odd question cannot be answered by tallying up two names in two columns to see which one appears most frequently.

The NT is not a replacement of the OT. It is a continuation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The NT offers a culmination or presentation of multiple prophecies from the OT leading to, and surrounding the Messiah. One portion of the Bible is incomplete without the other.

Since the Trinity teaching is most popular among mainstream Western religions, the OT often ends up in the back seat by having the "unpopular" but important Tetragrammaton appear more often than any other name in the Bible. Here is a list of most popular names (i.e. 'male') in the Bible, according to this source: https://www.bonpounou.com/namesinbible.html):

"Most Mentioned Men in the Bible:

David - 1,118 times
Jesus - 973 times
Moses - 740 times
Aaron - 339 times
Saul - 338 times
Abraham - 306 times"

Should we then emphasize the name of "Saul" over that of "Abraham" in the Bible since it is mentioned more?

Although Jesus Christ is at the center of the NT revelation of God, it normally does so within the context of God fulfilling his will of the salvation of mankind through the person of Jesus Christ (John 3.16, Acts 4.12). Jesus never usurps the place of the Father, God (John 17.3, 20.17, 1 Cor 15.28). He comes in the name of God to do His will. All post-NT efforts to explain the trinitarian claim that Jesus was both God and man at the same time flies against the general biblical teaching of simple monotheism, which the Jewish people so adhered to.

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that Jesus was "both God and man." Can anyone name a single scripture that makes this statement in clear language? In fact, the popular tripartite language has more in common with Greek philosophy than biblical teaching. We actually lose accuracy by superimposing a convoluted fourth century dogma over the simple original concept of the first century monotheistic doctrine.

6

Watched 1st WT Video in 30 years!

by Wonderment in

today i watched my 1st wt drama video since 30 years ago when i quit as a jw member.

the strange thing is that i did not choose to start watching this video.

it was my wife who's never been a witness, who started going over the jw.org site, and came across the new videos.

Wonderment

Today I watched my 1st WT Drama Video since 30 years ago when I quit as a JW member. The strange thing is that I did not choose to start watching this video. It was my wife who's never been a Witness, who started going over the JW.org site, and came across the new videos.

She started watching the Daniel Drama Video, and then I noticed this was quite different from the dramas we were exposed to decades ago. Back then the WT dramas were, comparatively speaking, of poor quality. Most of the brothers & sisters who took part then were not really good actors. I myself participated in a couple of them, in one, we had to study for months to memorize the lines. The recent Daniel video is way above those from the past. They are more like modern movies, and surprisingly, of good quality.

They are still lacking the most dramatic, explosive parts of mainstream movies, but hey, I was impressed enough with their latest efforts. Considering the WT lacks the experience of major movie studios, the finished product is not bad at all.

Would anyone here care to relate your honest impressions on the recent WT dramas-movies they been hatching?

263

What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 in

it seems to me scripturally speaking, that jehovah's witnesses are emphasizing the wrong name.. it should be jesus, not jehovah.

who is the way, the truth and the life?

(john 14:6).

Wonderment

SBF: "How come the people who insist the pronunciation of the divine name is a deal breaker don’t say the same about Jesus, whose pronunciation in the first century clearly does not match?"

Precisely! You could have used bold letters to emphasize this. Those who ignore this issue are just reflecting their religious bias.

Furthermore, some posters keep making the same assumptions as a fact, like the Divine Name was never in the original manuscripts. Textual experts, of the like of, Bruce B. Metzger & Philip W. Comfort have pointed out that the original text have been tampered with in hundreds of places, not surprisingly, many in places where the identity of God and Jesus were confounded. The Divine Name most likely suffered the fate of this state of confusion leading to its removal by unscrupulous copyists, as evidence suggest.

Another mistake often overlooked, is the tendency of people of this era looking at the NT with posterior or subsequent NT interpretations, not by the more relevant Jewish standpoint. Most of the Jewish people during the 1st century did not believe that Jesus Christ was their promised Messiah. They mostly believed in the Father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as Jehovah, or whatever name you prefer to replace the Tetragrammaton with. There was no need to convince the Jews that Yahweh was their God. They already accepted that!

What the Jews did need to comprehend during the 1st century was that their salvation was contingent on accepting Yahweh's messenger, Jesus Christ. Hence, the need to repeat this important message throughout the NT. (John 3.16, Acts 4.12) The Hebrews already honored Yahweh for nearly 2,000 years. Would they now accept this Messenger, their "Messiah?" Would they now 'honor him as they honored the Father,' who sent him? (John 5.23) That was their test of faith.

Moving forward in time, religious folks often make the most obvious blunders. They even fail to apply John 14.6 correctly (No one comes to the Father, except through me). Trinitarians tend to honor Jesus more than the Sender, the Father who sent him. And JWs tend to place Jesus below their organization. These extreme views are biblically off.

Those who cite John 1.3 & Col 1.16 that "all things were created by Christ" as proof that Christ is Almighty God in a trinitarian sense need to check their favorite Concordance. The original words for "all" in the Bible rarely means "everything." Often there are exceptions to the meaning of the "all" word, as is clearly shown in the following verse. (1 Cor 15.27) Even modern folks rarely use "all" to include everything under the sun. Example: All were present at the church. Does this include the whole town?

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

Phizzy: "Isaiah was not making a 'Messianic prophecy' at all, he is talking of an incoming King in Israel at the time which he wrote."

At least some do link this account with the future coming age of the Messiah, as shown below:

NIV Study Bible: "11:1 shoot...stump... The Messiah will grow as a shoot from that stump of David's dynasty."

11:6-9 The peace and safety of the Messianic age are reflected in the fact that little children will be unharmed as they play with formerly ferocious animals. Such conditions are a description of the future consummation of the Messianic kingdom See 2:2-4; 35:9; 65:20-25 and notes; Eze 34:25-29."

NIV Zondervan Study Bible (Edited by D.A. Carson): "11:6-9 A description of the Messianic kingdom."

The Expositor's Bible Commentary (Barker/Kohlenberger III): "The Davidic King and His Peaceful Reign (11:1-9) The Messianic theme reappears, having been out of sight since 9:7; it is taken up at precisely the point where it was left before, because the Davidic throne is implied in the reference to Jesse, David's father, and the effective zeal of the Lord Almighty in the richly empowering Spirit of the Lord."

The IVP Bible Background Commentary: "11:1-16 The Future Davidic King and His Kingdom."

The MacArthur Study Bible: "11:6-9 Such [conditions of peace] will characterize the future millennial kingdom in which the Prince of Peace (9:6) will reign."

The New Oxford Annotated Bible: "11:6-9: The messianic king (compare 9:2-7)...The Messiah will manifest the characteristics of those who were great in Israel...)."

The Jerusalem Bible: "A messianic poem describing in some detail the salient characteristics of the coming Messiah."

There are, however, other interpretations to this passage that have been published.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

Athanasius: "So instead of a real Bible translation as they claim, the Watchtower is actually publishing a translation of their English version Bible into these languages."

For the most part this is true. However, The WT claim that these other translations are based on the English Version, but referencing the Original languages appear to be also true, at least with the major languages. The few times I have checked various NWT vernacular versions (i.e., French, Modern Greek, Italian, Portuguese & Spanish) in the past, I have found various readings in these that are not English equivalents per se. In other words, these translations are adaptations of the English to the target languages, and some of the final readings may actually turn out to be closer to the original languages than the English source.

Furthermore, English versions (like Good News Bible, Living Bible, NIV, etc.), when translated into other languages, may not be, for the most part, fresh translations in the full sense either, for they depend heavily on the English versions they are sourced from. We cannot expect that each of these vernacular versions are to be translated verse-by-verse from scratch from the original source by a group of translators with a different criteria. To do so would be more costly, and time-consuming. To reach the uniformity the publishers seek, the academic translators are more likely to use the English source as a guide, and make adaptations from the original languages to the local needs as they go along. Remember, making sounding claims is one thing, but what they do in practice is another matter.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

TD:

Thanks for your response on the Greek!

I find Classical Greek quite intimidating, and Modern Greek more appealing.

Looking forward to your contributions here.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

TD:

Thank you, thank you for these posts! They are a fascinating read! I will read them again.

On a different subject, I am assuming you know Greek, since you have variously posted material in Greek. If so, I would like to know where you picked it up. Again, I don't recall seeing any disclosure on the subject on your part.

10

A little boy will lead them [i.e. the wolf...the leopard...the lion. Is. 11:6-9]

by Wonderment in

don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but i have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of is.

the wt presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.. does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone.

animals are not spoken of living forever in the bible.

Wonderment

Don't know if this subject has been touched on here before, but I have wondered at times, how much literalness can be applied to this Messianic prophecy within a paradise setting (assuming one probable interpretation of Is. 11:6-9 of various). The WT presents a mental image of complete harmony between animal and mankind.

Does this biblical passage somehow indicate that existing wild beasts will feed on vegetation alone. Animals are not spoken of living forever in the Bible. It has been said that most wild animals do not die of old age, rather they die by being eaten alive by predators, or by other factors within their harsh environment. If so, how could their populations be practically contained, that is, if limitations common to their hostile environment are potentially removed in a restored paradise?

What are we then to belief from this passage from Isaiah ? Will these animals stop being "wild" in paradise? Any comments are appreciated beforehand.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

A couple of observations could be made here from this WTS announcement.

First, the Society, although obviously cutting expenses lately in many areas, this does not seem to hold true of the VIDEOS Department, and the Bible Translation projects. These still seem to be going forward at full speed.

Secondly, as poster hoser noted above, not all these translations are of complete Bibles. However, if recent past WT translation practices are of any indication, we can expect them to finish their started projects in due time.

Thirdly, what's monumental about these announcements, is that they are introducing Bible translations in rare languages, whether we agree with WT practices or not. Even religious adversaries can potentially benefit from these publications eventually, since they would have one more incentive to follow up with their own evangelical versions.

For some of us, this may be irrelevant, but in other sparse languages any new publication added in their field is a big plus to their communities. The Divine Name (Is. 42.8) also gets further prominence, after being intentionally obscured by religious leaders for ages.

And fourth, no matter how much WT adversaries disparage their translation efforts, the fact is that no other single religious entity -as far as I know- has gone-as-far as translating one single Version into other 200 languages, in whole or in part. For instance, by being the first to publish the complete English Bible in Sign Language, and now extending this effort into other languages.

Now, if we could get the WTS to tame down their authoritarian structure, and be kinder to those holding other opinions, then we would not be so indifferent to the notorious WT legalistic ways.

13

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend

by Wonderment in

new translation record as 13 bibles are released in one weekend:.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/new-translation-record-as-13-bibles-are-released-in-one-weekend/.

Wonderment

New Translation Record as 13 Bibles Are Released in One Weekend:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/New-Translation-Record-as-13-Bibles-Are-Released-in-One-Weekend/