Posts by LeeT

6

The Documentary Hypothesis and the 20th century trap.

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

this post will be for the schoolars amoung us.. in the late 19th century were many of the worlds best scientists.

darwin, faraday, testla, edison etc.

and amoung them wasa lone archeologist named william albright who screwed up biblical schoolarship for over a hundred years.. before albright schoolars in europe hit on several conclusions about the bible:.

LeeT

HTBWC

The NT I haven't dealt with yet

Can I give you an added resource and point you in the direction of a channel I've been loving of late?

Podcast Episodes (NT Review)

Both Duke Uni PhD candidates under Mark Goodacre and in close contact with Ehrman.
The basic format has been expanded a bit of late but the core of the channel has been to dust off old but influential pieces of NT scholarship and see how they stand up today.
Being under Goodacre, there are also quite a few synoptic problem discussions too (largely coming down against Q).
They are believers but it really doesn't show. They definitely take the view that the Bible is the work of fallible humans and as historians they do history,

Hope you like it.

6

Any info on Jim Cleary please?

by a_different_JC in

for personal reasons i would like to hear of any information related to previous co james (jim) cleary.

initially served as an elder in marple and went on to serve as co in the north of england i believe .

LeeT

Jim Cleary is a familiar name from my youth (Hyde and Ashton congs 1980-1987).

Sorry, I've no idea what came of him.

12

Study Book

by Ding in

what is the watchtower's current study book?.

is it what does the bible really teach?.

is it what can the bible teach us?.

LeeT

was it just for kids? I can’t remember.

Given the low required reading age of all their publications, aren't they all kid's books (maybe excepting the Insight and the Shepherding the Flock books)?

8

What if the Christian version of the End of the World came an hour from now?

by Terry in

jw
friends

the next thing i knew, i was knee deep in conversation with a seminary student covering two thousand years of religious history.

damn, how did that happen?i won’t bore you with lavish details.

in fact, i only mention the incident for one reason.i'm no smarter than anybody - but i've had way too much practice chatting with eager christian seminary students.i posed a couple of questions i’d never done before which seemed to stop this fella dead in his tracks.

LeeT

Your question reminded me of the "poof or drown" question often posed by Doug (PineCreek Youtube channel) which is set in Noah's flood.

God consults you about these people that must die. Do you advise God to poof them painlessly and instantly out of existence or do you suggest a drawn out and terrifying death by drowning in a flood, along with innocent animals?

Say poof and you're suggesting God took the wrong course. Choose drown and your only excuse is probably that we are feeble minded imperfect humans and God is omniscient and all loving so must have good reasons, whatever they were.

It leads into all sorts of questions on the Euthyphro dilemma.
Are things good just because that is what God would do? That sounds like "might makes right" and God can pick and choose his own moral standards. I think Hitchen's compared this to the celestial North Korea style love of the Great Leader.
Alternatively, does God only choose to make decisions which are morally right in any case, independently of what course he chooses? If so, why can't we figure out a good moral code without God's guidance?

The poof or drown question has already been discussed on ExJW Reddit.
Reddit - Poof or Drown

PineCreek with Greg Koukl on Poof or Drown

37

Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue Owners of FaithLeaks for Posting 74 Convention Movies

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-faithleaks-owners-over-convention-videos .

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/01/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-owners-of-faithleaks-for-posting-74-convention-movies/.

the watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, which oversees the jehovah’s witnesses, is suing the truth and transparency foundation and its founders ryan c. mcknight and ethan g. dodge alleging copyright infringement..

LeeT

The file structure takes some wading through but there are a lot of English (and other languages) resources available here too.
http://da-ip.getmyip.com/PDF/

21

Number of Kingdom Halls Worldwide

by wachttorenkijker in

how many kingdom halls are there worldwide?

even better how many in the years 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.. i'm asking this to get a picture of the total real estate owning of the jw and how this become to the money-cow in these days..

LeeT

I've just checked the spreadsheet I made from field service data in the Year Books and at the website but Hall Numbers isn't something I've tracked.
One thing to bear in mind might be the closure and sale of high-value Western halls being replaced by low-value halls in lower-income countries where the growth is.

15

The purpose of conversion testimonies and stories

by LeeT in

a hunch has just struck me.we get frequent accounts in the literature and videos of people whose dysfunctional lived have been turned around by studying with the jw's and coming to belief in the org (sorry, jehovah).

evangelical type christian groups also use similar testimony stories.here's the hunch:the purpose of these is quite different among jw's compared to other religions.other groups use these testimonies primarily to persuade non-believers.the jw's use them to reinforce the beliefs of those already in the "truth.

"any thoughts?.

LeeT

Yes, I get that the point is to reach straight for the heart and bypass the brain.
It's the target audience aspect I'm thinking of.

15

The purpose of conversion testimonies and stories

by LeeT in

a hunch has just struck me.we get frequent accounts in the literature and videos of people whose dysfunctional lived have been turned around by studying with the jw's and coming to belief in the org (sorry, jehovah).

evangelical type christian groups also use similar testimony stories.here's the hunch:the purpose of these is quite different among jw's compared to other religions.other groups use these testimonies primarily to persuade non-believers.the jw's use them to reinforce the beliefs of those already in the "truth.

"any thoughts?.

LeeT

A hunch has just struck me.

We get frequent accounts in the literature and videos of people whose dysfunctional lived have been turned around by studying with the JW's and coming to belief in the Org (sorry, Jehovah). Evangelical type Christian groups also use similar testimony stories.

Here's the hunch:
The purpose of these is quite different among JW's compared to other religions.
Other groups use these testimonies primarily to persuade non-believers.
The JW's use them to reinforce the beliefs of those already in the "Truth."

Any thoughts?

24

My dad is now a ministerial servant tonight

by Wagurl in

my dad just became mistrial servant should i move out i’m almost 18. what the hell should i do?

.

LeeT

My parents converted when I was a kid.
My older sister took the explosive route out and ran away to move in with her boyfriend's parents aged 16. Amazingly it worked out really well for her.

I took the patient waiting game approach and, aged 19, left for university. I remember that period dragging on for years and being a total misery.

Find some interest of group of friends that will mean you can get out of the house and into a JW free environment as much as possible.

Find forms of secret rebellion. Posting here for example. I spent some time sneaking off to midweek meetings at other churches to see how they did Christianity.

I'm guessing you've spent years being indoctrinated into learning how not to think. Learn to think. Developing critical thinking skills, a bit of logic, how to do research properly, what makes a sound argument etc are all transferable skills. Do that and you're less likely to fall for the next set of BS presented to you and you'll spot bad JW arguments all the more clearly. The number of exJW Flat Earthers I've seen is scary.

Figure out exit strategies. Knowing I had a uni place and just needed to work and save for a year first because I had no parental support was a lifeline giving me light at the end of the tunnel.

49

MANUAL!--2020-04 SFL.

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

2020-04-addendum letter.. https://docdro.id/n0hm6tg.

2020-04 shepherd the flock of god elder manual.

https://docdro.id/llechtz.

LeeT

edit: My posts are no longer there.

Thanks. I've posted all languages to date to an unofficial Jehovah's Witnesses Facebook group.
Hopefully, some non-elders will be curious enough to have a read.