Posts by cofty

Do you think they have a witnesses who will testify she has been saying anything negative? If it is a fishing expedition just tell her to avoid giving them anything they can use aginst her at the hearing. They will ask all the usual "do you still accept that...." questions. Nothing to stop her blagging it if she has something to gain from avoiding being df'd.

They are obliged to inform her exactly what the charge is against her when they invite her to attend the jc.

55

Another Scotsman reporting for duty :)

by cofty in

jw
friends

hi all, its time i stopped lurking around here.

i've been posting at jws for just over a year, i know a few names here and it looks like there is lots of good banter going on.. i am a second generation, born-in who grew up in west-central scotland.

i pioneered in edinburgh and later married and settled in berwick just south of the border.

cofty

Ditto Scotsman - some happy days at Hamilton. Actually at the time I enjoyed some of the talks, John Flack was always interesting to listen to I thought. I used to go around those other assembles you mention fo rsame reason :) Always thought Leith town hall was a class venue, Musselburgh was horrible IMO

"The Scotsman" - thanks for your comments. I can only agree that non-believers have committed plenty of atrocities as well. For me its about theodicy, whether christians, atheists or tectonic plates are the cause of suffering there is, I would assert, no evidence for god. I'm sure we are going to enjoy debating stuff like this, looking forward to it. You probably knew my dad same name as me Bill Blyth. He was an attendant in charge of one of the stands at Perth, not sure what he did at Edinburgh? I agree I never sat through a talk at the convention that i didn't choose to. When they scrapped food service I couldn't believe how boring it was.

I WANT TO SAY WELCOME, I used to be in food prep at Murrayfield in late 70s early 80s, making doughnuts and preparing the cakes and pastries.

Hi chicken little this is really exciting. I worked in your dept just one or two years in mid 70s before I started in buffet distribution. I spent every convention form about 1977/8 until we moved to Perth doing the same job. Actually I did the same at Perth until they scrapped food "simplification". Did you ever work out why your doughnut machines were 3 stories up a winding stair well! We used to carry trays up and down those stairs from early morning until late and then bring back the empties. For a while the sandwich prep was up there as well until until moved to a tent near ours. Having an all day staff buffet was fun. I remember one year you guys made cream cakes as well and I slipped of the edge of a step and a whole tray of fresh cream cakes went flying down the stairs - oops! We ate them so you wouldn't feel bad about the waste haha.

My real name is Bill Blyth by the way in case anybody remembers me. Not to be confused with my dad also called Bill Blyth who is still an elder in Coatbridge. Evidently they lacked imagination when choosing my name!

Like you I have a son in the military, he is a physical training instructor in the RAF. So far he has not been summoned to the sand pit but I'm sure his turn will come.

Jookbeard your right the borders are lovely. I pioneered in Hawick for a year around 1981 with Alan Richmond. Then moved to Dalkeith to "serve where the need... yadda ya" Bascically they needed a pio to lead mid-week fs. Finally settled in Berwick when I got married. I agree about reachout trust. I met Doug once, I found their style to be almost as controlling as the borg. I still have an essay about the "Ransom" on their web site. It surveys the history of the doctrine via Russel, Barbour and Rutherford and compares it to the christian "gospel" It now feels like I wrote it in a previous life.

Thanks to everybody I haven't mentioned for your warm welcome.

55

Another Scotsman reporting for duty :)

by cofty in

jw
friends

hi all, its time i stopped lurking around here.

i've been posting at jws for just over a year, i know a few names here and it looks like there is lots of good banter going on.. i am a second generation, born-in who grew up in west-central scotland.

i pioneered in edinburgh and later married and settled in berwick just south of the border.

cofty

Thanks again everybody, I'm looking forward to getting to know you all better.

"My father was born in Scotland I sometimes wear tartan ties and I have the soundtrack to Trainspotting I hope this qualifies me as a fellow Scotsman."

That is enough to qualify you to play football for Scotland I Quit! We're not going to South Africa so plenty of time to get your fitness up :) Class film by the way.

Lifelong Humanist we used to go on holiday to St Fillans on Loch Earn; in fact most of our congregation went there regularly during late 60s and most of the 70s. I don't think there was a cong in Crief at that time at least not until sometime time in the 70s would that be right? I remember going to Perth once or twice for meetings while on hols - great! I hope your wife sees the light as asap, must be frustrating for you.

Hi sweet pea good to hear from Besty's "other half" I am still reading his/your story, I'm enjoying the familiar stuff like memories of Murrayfield. I'm sure we are going to know a lot of the same people. By the way how often have you been told or had it implied you couldn't have been a "real" born-again??

Hey Freddo I entertained some of the same fantasies - naive or what? Good luck with the big fade, in retrospect I would have preferred a fade to a super-nova, less fun but also less pain and mum and dad would not have missed their grandchildren growing up.

What years were you at Hamilton iknowall? I think it was Ronnie Hunter I knew in Bishopbriggs? At least my dad knew him well. I went to Hamilton from the days I used go and play on the swings at lunch time and get into trouble for being late back with muddy trousers to times when it was all about looking for friends (especially sisters) you hadn't seen for months. Remember lunch with those metal trays with little compartments and the custard would end up mixed with the gravy hahaha

23

From where? Morals.

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

there is great debate regarding the matter of morals/ethics, and this particularly true whenever there is interaction between religiously driven portions of a culture, and those who maintain no religious opinion or even subscribe to atheism.

that cultural clash occurs often on this forum and others like it.. believers in god often attribute moral choices with godliness.

yet, among billions who have lived without any attachment to god in the particular sense that is often considered the driving influence [christianity, islam, judaism, or other organized religion] there have always been men and women whose 'moral character' is above reproach, even when measured with a black/white index of religious thought.. morality holds an arbitrary position among mankind.

cofty

Thanks for that reference frankiespeakin. I watched an example last week on the BBC of a male ape breaking nuts open with a stone. A female with an infant had plenty nuts but no stone to open them. She went and sat beside the male and after a few minutes he handed her the stone which she used and then returned. Really fascinating.

I also saw elephants release antelopes from a corral. It looked at first as if they were wanting the food in the corral but they didn't, they just opened the gates and stood guard while the antelopes made off. It appeared t be the first recorded example of cross-species altruism?

52

If we are a product of evolution why the need of specific elements in nature?

by cyberjesus in

for years i believed that god had created all the plants and their elements and nutrients specifically for us.

yesterday as i was walking at the getty museum was smelling the garlic plants in the garden and made me wonder.

if we are a product of evolution and the survival of the fittest, why do we depend on a wide variety of plants to survive?

cofty

Not sure if this is an answer to your question but vitamin C is an interesting example. We need to get regular supplies of it from fruit in particular otherwise we get ill. Lack of Vitamin C caused scurvy in the British Navy in the 19th C.

Many animals can manufacture vitamin C. We have the genes to make our own vitamin C but the gene is broken. It has become a pseudo-gene, a relic like an old broken machine in a factory. Interestingly chimps have exactly the same broken gene in their genome.

Maybe what your thinking about is an example of kind of symbiotic relationship.

55

Another Scotsman reporting for duty :)

by cofty in

jw
friends

hi all, its time i stopped lurking around here.

i've been posting at jws for just over a year, i know a few names here and it looks like there is lots of good banter going on.. i am a second generation, born-in who grew up in west-central scotland.

i pioneered in edinburgh and later married and settled in berwick just south of the border.

cofty

Thanks for the welcome everybody. Great to see so many Scots around here, anybody think we got enough to march on Carlisle yet?

Hi LWT, Beksbks and Flipper - so this is where the cool guys and girls hang out

Interesting thoughts awildflower. I have found that to be true that some people sense a lack of love and know they need to leave; some of us have to agonize over the minutiae of doctrine for months or years. I'm enjoying the journey but feel more and more that a rational, scientific approach is the only path to truth I find satisfying.

Slimboyfat - "small world" as my mum always said (probably still does - who knows) I grew up in Coatbridge congregation from 1965ish - 1985ish Went to circuit assemblies at Hamilton town hall mostly; when I wasn't talent spotting at other assembles! I worked on food service distribution at Murrayfield district conventions for many years. Interesting our journeys followed very similar paths.

Chickpea, I agree, this life is not a rehearsal its the main event. Any time we get to live it for real is time well spent.

Cry, you made me laugh; I'm fairly well adjusted if that includes becoming more real and less "nice" than I used to be - I decided "nice" is over-rated. Hope your surviving Yorkshire, can't be easy haha.

Hi Moshe, the chairman of the jc who was also the p/o and I had enjoyed many hours of conversations about the questions I was struggling with. I remember explaining to him why I was convinced the great crowd were in heaven "naos" and all that, and how the society had misled the brothers about it in the study article on the subject. By the end of the conversation he said he would defy anybody to prove the great crowd were on earth. About a week later at a wedding reception he told me he had decided to resign as an elder. He changed his mind again and decided to stay on and then presided over my jc! He is p/o to this day!

Me and the whole pantheon Deputy Dog; irreconcilable differences.

Quandry, thanks yes my wife left at the same time. She was born-in and pioneered and everything but she would say she was just going through the motions and doing what was expected of her. She never loved it or really believed it.

I have enjoyed some of your posts Mouthy while I have been lurking, I think we are going to enjoy some good debate, thanks for the welcome. Maybe I will post my stuff on parousia sometime.

Hi Besty thanks for the PM. It's getting late here so I will get back to you tomorrow. Will be good to compare people and places. By the way I remember coming to a party at somebodies house in Perth in 1981 but cant remember who. Lots of drinking and dancing, never get away with it nowadays :)

As you say BTS "Alba gu brath"

Thanks again for the welcome

23

From where? Morals.

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

there is great debate regarding the matter of morals/ethics, and this particularly true whenever there is interaction between religiously driven portions of a culture, and those who maintain no religious opinion or even subscribe to atheism.

that cultural clash occurs often on this forum and others like it.. believers in god often attribute moral choices with godliness.

yet, among billions who have lived without any attachment to god in the particular sense that is often considered the driving influence [christianity, islam, judaism, or other organized religion] there have always been men and women whose 'moral character' is above reproach, even when measured with a black/white index of religious thought.. morality holds an arbitrary position among mankind.

cofty

Hi, interesting post Jeff. I agree with Voideater, we all understand what causes pain and suffering to others - avoiding those things is the basis of morality. You are right to point out the capricious ethics of the bible.

"a population of apes found it advantageous to regulate their activity to promote cooperation, and voila, here we are, apes who say that rape is a bad thing" - PZ Myers

55

Another Scotsman reporting for duty :)

by cofty in

jw
friends

hi all, its time i stopped lurking around here.

i've been posting at jws for just over a year, i know a few names here and it looks like there is lots of good banter going on.. i am a second generation, born-in who grew up in west-central scotland.

i pioneered in edinburgh and later married and settled in berwick just south of the border.

cofty

Hi all, its time I stopped lurking around here. I've been posting at JWS for just over a year, I know a few names here and it looks like there is lots of good banter going on.

I am a second generation, born-in who grew up in west-central Scotland. I pioneered in Edinburgh and later married and settled in Berwick just south of the border. I was an elder from my late twenties and was enjoying life in the borg fast lane until they went and changed the whole "generation" thing. To be honest it wasn't the change that derailed me as much as the way they treated us all like idiots over the whole thing.

I took a close look at Matt 24 etc and especially at the meaning of "parousia". Having discovered their mistake (haha) I wrote up my very respectful thoughts and posted them to London. Not sure what I was expecting but the knighthood never arrived. My fellow elders got a letter telling them to tell me to wait on jehoobah. Anyway - long story short - I sent it to Brooklyn and waited and waited and waited (still waiting)

Once the first domino falls the rest are only a matter of time. I started researching blood and other topics. Eventually I resigned as an elder and began to fade. At this point I was avoiding all "apostate" stuff and only researching the bible and wt publications. Meantime my loving in-laws, (is cursing discouraged around here?) reported me to London for a private conversation we had about why we were no longer going to meetings. I was summoned to a judicial and df'd around christmas 1996. The chairman of the committee had spent many hours talking to me about these things in previous weeks and months and had openly admitted to me that he agreed the borg were wrong on some important issues - hypocrite!

Like many ex-witnesses I naturally assumed that the core of what I had always believed must be true and so I began to investigate the church. I came to understand the fundamental difference between the WT "ransom" and the christian gospel and felt I had discovered something I had always been looking for. I began to attend a baptist church and eventually got baptised again. I was as enthusiastic and committed a christian as I suppose it is possible to be. I volunteered for Reachout Trust for a while giving talks to other churches about how to talk to dubs and helping some on a one-to-one in our region. Eventually I was giving sermons in church and when the pastor left I was part of a leadership team, preaching and leading worship.

About 8 years later I began to doubt whether god really did listen to and answer prayers. A tragedy involving a friend at church left me feeling disillusioned and wondering if I was making the same excuses for god that I had previously made for the borg. Me and god stopped speaking. On 26th December 2004 I was driving to play in a charity football match (soccer) when I heard on the car radio about the Asian tsunami. Me and god were finished.

My parents are still in the borg and to be honest that's probably best for them. We have two children, a son in the RAF and a daughter at school. I spend a lot of my time coaching football and following a host of other interests. My views on god have been taking shape constantly over the years since 96 and I would now describe myself as an atheist but I'm sure I will say more about that later.

Look forward to getting to know more of you.