Posts by cofty

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

Here is the point you need to address...

In order to rule out creationism it is not necessary to show the definitive answer to a specific challenge. Let's say you come across a stone arch for the first time in your life. You have no idea how it could be built because it would obviously fall down at every stage until the keystone is in place. Therefore you conclude that god made it. In order to prove that you are wrong I only have to demonstrate one possible naturalistic answer. I might show how it could be built using a wooden scaffold that was then dismantled. It doesn't matter at all if somebody else insists that it was built using a mound of sand and somebody else is certain it was built using a pile of earth. If there are 12 possible solutions that all work then there are 12 reasons why supernatural answers can safely be ignored.

Any naturalistic answer that works proves that supernatural answers are unnecessary.

The same goes for your rather odd objection that the loss of hair contradicts evolution. You have listed 12 reasons - any one of which proves you are resorting to superstitions. Well done!

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

I can't tell you why you would resort to personal attacks

I never do.

maybe you don't consider them personal attacks and others do

Believers and creationists consider attacks on their superstitions as personal attacks. That's their problem.

You just called me and many people lazy

It was a statement of fact. The intellectual laziness of many believers I have encountered on this forum is really astonishing.

see how we're off topic?

Yes, you did that because you don't have any facts.

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

rules of common courtesy are tossed out and attacks fly back and forth so much that any possibility of civil discussion is eliminated - Shadow

Go back and read my 38 threads on the Evolution is a Fact series. Observe the frequent personal attacks and insults I receive from a collection of Jesus' buddies, and then notice that I never retaliate.

Like many people you see vitriol on a thread and lazily assume both sides are as bad as each other.

Why would I resort to personal attacks when I have facts on my side?

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

Yawn

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

there are a lot more examples in support of creation but no doubt you will say none of them have any merit

Bring them on and we will see. In years of studying the subject and thoroughly examining all sorts of objections to evolution I have yet to find one that wasn't facile.

So it's two fails out of two.

Maybe you could stick to facts and cut out the ad hominem?

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

picking out one paper and saying that it had the facts to answer the question posted. A question so simple that a schoolchild could answer it.

The paper I posted does answer the question. A schoolchild should be able to answer it.

In order to rule out creationism it is not necessary to show the definitive answer to a specific challenge. Let's say you come across a stone arch for the first time in your life. You have no idea how it could be built because it would obviously fall down at every stage until the keystone is in place. Therefore you conclude that god made it. In order to prove that you are wrong I only have to demonstrate one possible naturalistic answer. I might show how it could be built using a wooden scaffold that was then dismantled. It doesn't matter at all if somebody else insists that it was built using a mound of sand and somebody else is certain it was built using a pile of earth.

Any naturalistic answer that works proves that supernatural answers are unnecessary.

The same goes for your rather odd objection that the loss of hair contradicts evolution. You have listed 12 reasons - any one of which proves you are resorting to superstitions. Well done!

Science has transformed the world for the better. It really works. It makes predictions and tests them. It does everything possible to disprove its own assumptions and throws out what doesn't work. It is based on methodological naturalism.

In other words every mystery ever solved turned out not to be magic.

32

Evolution Gap - Where's the Fur? Redux

by shadow in

i am posting a second topic on this subject since the first one became overrun by snakes.. cofty posted a link to a published paper discussing this topic and referred to the information in it as "facts".

here is my summary of that paper along with comments on it.. one of the opening statements says that:.

two frequently debated aspects of hominin evolution are the development of upright bipedal stance and reduction in body hair.. so for those who believe this is a stupid topic, it is a subject of interest to many stupid people including the authors of the paper referred to by cofty.

cofty

There is disagreement between scientists on the advantage of loss of body hair - so what?

Our ancestors were hairy - we are not. The reason why is still open to debate. Thermal regulation is a strong candidate.

In my mind it calls into question all of the topics posted on the subject of evolution

That is so intellectually dishonest it is ridiculous.

There are millions of details about the minutiae of evolution that have still to be worked out. You highlighted a very trivial one. I could have suggested far more significant examples.

Imagine a Juror who listens to days of evidence regarding the guilt of a murderer. There is DNA evidence, physical evidence, phone records, forensics, fingerprints etc etc. However witnesses disagree whether or not the man they saw running from the scene was wearing a baseball cap.

If one of the jurors wanted to throw out all of the evidence based on that detail and then you discovered the juror had failed to declare he was a friend of the accused, what would you think of him?

The evidence that every living thing evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution is beyond sensible debate. The ONLY reason anybody doubts it is wilful ignorance or religious bias.

Shadow - What books that present the scientific evidence for evolution have you studied?

I'm guessing the honest answer is none and that you will ignore the question as every creationist I have asked so far has done.

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

cofty

That's just your mind Ruby Ruby Ruby Ruby....

90

Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life

by shadow in

disclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.

yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.

i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.

cofty

That's a good summary of Lane & Martin's ideas. Unfortunately the editor has used a picture of an acidic Black Smoker vent rather than an Alkaline vent. The two environments could not be more different.

29

[Generic evolution vs. creation thread]

by sir82 in

jw
friends

to save us all a lot of time and effort..... [some complex structure in living organisms described].

[i can't imagine how this could be the product of evolution].

[therefore god created it].

cofty

I won't be listening ... because I have a strong emotional connection to my beliefs.

If only more believers were as honest.