Posts by cofty

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

The brochure is a pseudo-scientific argument from complexity from beginning to end. It doesn't mention the deeper theological reason why scientists could not make life.

What is the "spirit" the returns to god at death according to the Watchtower? It is the impersonal force that gives life to all living things. It emanates from god and returns to god. It was compared to electricity with god as its unique source.

HOW CAN ANYTHING BE ALIVE WITHOUT SPIRIT IN WT THEOLOGY?

Spirit comes from god alone therefore scientists can NEVER create a living thing from rocks. They might make a cell but it would be lifeless.

"Spirit" is inaccessible to science.

For the same reason Satan can never create life.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

the feasibility of scientists creating living cells from non-living matter.

It does not say "living cells".

What is the "spirit" the returns to god at death according to the Watchtower? It is the impersonal force that gives life to all living things. It emanates from god and returns to god. It was compared to electricity with god as its unique source. How can anything be alive without spirit in WT theology? Spirit comes from god alone therefore scientists can NEVER create a living thing from rocks. They might make a cell but it would be lifeless.

"Spirit" is inaccessible to science.

For the same reason Satan can never create life.

Anyone acquainted with anything they have ever written knows this.

Not content with misrepresenting your own OP

Liar

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

That is about constructing a cell. It doesn't say that science could perhaps make new life.

They are very dogmatic that the term "spirit" refers to an ethereal animating force that originates with god alone.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

You are wrong.

27

Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?

by EdenOne in

i have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.

your thoughts?.

cofty

I think man with all thier tools and intelegence should be able to create life

That's because you have no grasp of the scale of the challenge.

Origin of life research got off to a false start with the Miller-Urey experiments in the 50s. It is only in very recent years that it has began to make progress. It will likely be decades before there is anything approaching consensus.

The most promising idea is that life began in hydrothermal Alkaline vents under the ocean in a world devoid of oxygen 4 billion years ago. These vents were only discovered in the year 2000.

27

Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?

by EdenOne in

i have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.

your thoughts?.

cofty

the fact that man can't and hasn't been able to create life is a major problem

No it isn't. That is like setting about solving the biggest puzzle ever invented and five minutes later somebody starts complaining that you haven't solved it yet.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

Getting back to the topic.... (before SBF shits on it again)

As a JW and then a christian my belief was that life was something ethereal that belonged only to god. That was also the basis of objections to abortion and even forms of oral contraception that prevented the implantation of a fertilised ovum. It was the primary objection to euthanasia.

The bible says somewhere, "with you is the source of life, with light from you we see light". The creation account portrays a lifeless corpse being imbued with the breath of life and Adam is animated.

Ecclesiastes talks about the spirit going out and returning to god.

On this understanding the efforts of scientists to see if life will emerge from geochemistry is an impossible task. It is not doomed to failure because it is too technically difficult, it is doomed because life comes only from the lifegiver. The barrier is theological not scientific.

I have heard believers on this forum raise similar objections to origin-of-life science many times.

It's interesting that a biblical literalist like Vidqun began with that position but has shifted to the position that science could succeed but that god would not permit them to do so.

I am trying to get to the central question of what is life, what does christianity say about it and how progress in origin-of-life research might challenge long-held assumptions.

27

Directed panspermia - a plausible theory of intelligent design?

by EdenOne in

i have just read an interesting article by astrobiologist jacob haq-misra.. in this article he describes a process called "directed panspermia" as a plausible way that one form of intelligent design - one not related with religious driven agendas involving theism - could be involved in the process by which life developed on earth and possibly in other planets as well.. sounds like a speculation that's worth entertaining.

your thoughts?.

cofty

I like the idea of intelligent design.

Reality doesn't care what we like.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

if scientists manage to generate life from non-life you believe this some how will prove that life can arise without God. But what is the basis for the assertion? - SBF

It turns out there is such a thing as a dumb question.

It depends on what you mean by "what", it depends on what you mean by "is", it depends on what you mean by "the", it depends on what you mean by "basis", it depends on what you mean by "for", it depends on what you mean by "the", it depends on what you mean by "assertion".

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

You asked what impact scientific discoveries on the origin of life would have on believers and how they would respond. The question assumes that scientific discoveries impact philosophical or theological questions. - SBF

Science has impacted on theological questions again and again and will continue to do so.

It is just incredible that anybody would doubt it. How many examples can you think of? Stop being so obtuse.

on this small blue dot there is a fella who has the origin of life all figured out - EQV

Once again theists resort to lying about the position of those who don't share their superstitions rather than address the actual question.

I have said repeatedly that origin-of-life science is about hypotheses. Evolution is a fact. No explanation of abiogenesis has yet reached that status.

My question is about what effect - if any - it will have on theism when science proves that life emerges from geochemistry without any intelligent agency.

It is an interesting question. It's fascinating to see how many ways there are to avoid it.