Posts by cofty

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

Our body cells are continually replicating, renewing, dying so that the body is a different body (so to speak) than the one we had 7 years ago, apart from brain cells. However we are still the same person. - tornapart

Really interesting comments thanks.

I think I will pursue it further in a new thread.

Landy I think you are right. I wonder how more rational christians would handle it. Evolution has been accepted by millions of christians but very few Muslims. Would the realisation that life can arise spontaneously from geochemistry be any more of a challenge?

Rebel please deal with the topic or hush. The forum doesn't need any more "politeness police".

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

Rebel - Just as we were getting a conversation on topic you derail it again.

SBF wants attention away from the topic and onto himself. Well done!

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

Surely if scientists are trying to make things happen then 'intelligence' is still behind it?

Not really. It's not like they are trying to make a cell or anything. They are setting up the chemical conditions that existed in a prebiotic earth to observe what happens.

To illustrate. The Giant's Causeway in Ireland consists of regular polygonal columns of basalt that don't look natural. If a scientist can show in the lab that these shapes emerge naturally from cooling magma - they can - then it shows no agency was involved in forming Clochán an Aifir.

The fact that it took an intelligent scientist to set up the experiment doesn't undermine the results.

I would think that it would turn some believers away from their faith in God but I'm sure just as many would stick with their beliefs

I agree. Many believers would deny the reality.

Evolution had a profound effect on some aspects of theology 150 years ago. We now know there was no Adam and Eve and no fall from perfection. Some believers adapted but others are still in denial. I wonder if origin-of-life would be any more challenging.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

I've been reading the thread with interest over the last few days and a lot of it goes right over my head and I can't make sense of any of it. - tornapart

That is a pity. SBF has succeeded in making a really simple and interesting talking point into something obscure and nonsensical.

The OP proposed a simple question. Scientists are working on demonstrating how life emerged from rocks through entirely naturalistic means with no intelligent agency.

I am simply asking for a conversation about what implications that would have for religious belief - if any.

This is why I get so frustrated by SBF. I enjoy interesting conversations about topics like this, it's why I come to the forum. Other posters like tornapart would probably join in and exchange ideas such as Memphis did earlier.

SBF goes out his way to make that impossible.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

if those reading the thread feel Slim has made reasonable and balanced arguments

Do you mean this sort of thing...

The question assumes that scientific discoveries impact philosophical or theological questions. What's the basis for that assumption? - SBF

So science has not had any impact on religious questions. Really?

Or this gem ...

I guess what you mean is that if scientists manage to generate life from non-life you believe this some how will prove that life can arise without God. But what is the basis for the assertion? - SBF

If scientists can produce life from rocks without god that won't prove life can arise without god!

Or how about this puzzle...

it could be said of God that he is both not alive and not not-alive - SBF

28

Taking the Bible Lessons And Going To a KH For First Time

by Cold Steel in

i've taken the bible lessons but have never attended a kingdom hall.

i was curious as to what point they begin to tighten the screws of control?

let's say you're a baptist.

cofty

The good news is that Mormonism and the Watchtower have had their day. The internet is exposing the lies in both cults and finding new members is increasingly difficult,

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

Rebel - That's facile.

Facts are not established by popular vote.

How is clicking Like or Dislike addressing SBFs arguments? I have some who follow me around the forum clicking Dislike on almost every post. I consider it a compliment.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

cofty

there are several mistakes and these I have chosen to ignore so that his main argument can stand because that is strongly argued - Ruby

There are no mistakes in my explanation of JW beliefs regarding soul and spirit. Absolutely none.

there is slimboyfat's argument that even if scientists make life in a lab or can explain how life started by scientific means they are simply begetting life from life

SBF is saying a lot of obtuse things but he is not arguing that. If he was it would especially silly. Sperm and egg making a new baby is "life begetting life". New life from rocks is not. You are confusing the argument in the brochure that making a cell is really really complex and requires intelligent design with the theological objection that making new life is impossible without the life-giver.

cofty's argument would be sound if he was arguing against anything miraculous in the origin of life rather than against any JW teachings that suggest ethereal qualities in humans.

According to the WT the only ethereal thing in every living thing is pneuma. An impersonal force of life that comes from god. Is is exactly analogous to electricity. This is JW dogma 101. Do you really need quotes to prove it?