cofty

Joined

• started 464 topics
• posted 24,957 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by cofty

• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  I'm not wasting time with petty semantic bickering.

  Lots of substantial points in the OP if you are sincere about having a conversation on this topic.
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Yes. Objective facts leading to objective judgements with no absolute standard of perfection involved.
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  How can something be objective without some absolute as reference? - John_Mann

  There is no such thing as a perfect or absolute standard of physical health. Despite this we constantly make objective statements about physical well-being.
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Why evolution would bring so much waste in a particular unreal idea? - John_Mann

  John please try to stick to the topic of the OP.

  The evolutionary roots of belief in gods has been thoroughly covered in the forum many times.
  

  This thread is about the failure of the argument for god from morality.
  
  
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Interesting almost every (neo) atheist arguments always deals with the Sola Scriptura approach. Atheists quote Bible just like the Protestants - John_Mann

  If you bothered to read the OP you will notice that I argue from nature and human nature.
  
  
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  John_Mann it's almost as if you commented without having first read the OP. You wouldn't do that would you?

  If I'm wrong about that then it's puzzling why you are attacking a position that is the exact opposite of the one I presented.

  The point of my OP is to present evidence that "absolute morality" is a myth invented by theists in pursuit of moral certainty.

  Rejecting absolute morality does not reduce our moral decisions to subjective personal preferences. Secular morals are based on objective facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.

  You have already been corrected about your misguided opinions regarding ethology. You really need to get up to speed about that.

  Around half of our genes are expressed in our brains. We have evolved complex means of living in social groups including a faculty for disgust, jealousy, reciprocity, anger, revenge and guilt. Survival is not just about being big and mean. In our species being "fit" involves an advanced ability to cooperate. This requires a brain that feels empathy, that can see the world through the eyes of another. We know from brain scans and from individuals who have suffered injury exactly what parts of the brain are involved in these functions.

  You have yet to address the OP. Your work is all ahead of you.
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  How are you defining evil?
• 
  401

  So, the Womens March ... What Is It For?

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  it seems like mobilizing after the election, which seems pointless.

  i keep hearing demands for equal rights but don't understand what rights they are missing exactly.. normally a march is to show the support (and potential votes) for a cause, but ... votes for what?

  ... and the election happened already.. is anyone else confused?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  97% of deaths at work are men. Do women actually want equality?

  I believe in equality of opportunity. A pursuit of equality of outcome is a fool's errand.
• 
  401

  So, the Womens March ... What Is It For?

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  it seems like mobilizing after the election, which seems pointless.

  i keep hearing demands for equal rights but don't understand what rights they are missing exactly.. normally a march is to show the support (and potential votes) for a cause, but ... votes for what?

  ... and the election happened already.. is anyone else confused?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Interestingly in some Scandinavian countries where obstacles to gender freedoms have been removed the split between female and male career choices is significant. Women mostly choose to pursue stereotypically female careers and vice-versa.

  When you minimise the nurture factors of gender difference, the effects of nature become even clearer.
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  yes exactly so Saename.

  I also object to WLCs conflation of absolute and objective morality.

  The former is impossible as I argue in my OP. The latter is based on objective facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.