cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  50

  If turned off by the GB's latest bloopers- do you still have faith in God and Christ?

  by the-Question in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some go back to churchianity!.

  and that, to me, indicates they never had real faith in god- but it was in men.....

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  cofty

  If turned off by the GB's latest bloopers- do you still have faith in God and Christ? - the-q

  Why do you think faith is an effective tool for establishing what it true?
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  37

  I will only believe in demons if...

  by deegee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws are known to have an obsession and preoccupation with demons.. this obsession and preoccupation is not without merit given that jesus, his disciples/apostles, and the general public of 1st century ce judea and galilee are reported as believing in the existence of demonic spirits and in the possibility of demon possession of an individual.. exorcism formed a large part of jesus' ministry on earth.

  the gospels and the book of acts describe many exorcisms where jesus and his disciples release people from demonic possession.. ___ .

  but how do demons get inside a person's brain or body?

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  cofty

  There are no demons. No angels. No "spirits". Stop worrying.

  If you can define spirit that would be interesting. I mean what is it exactly?
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  Amazing how Atheists here seems just to take the Sola Scriptura approach. - JM

  For the second time - if you bothered to read the OP you will see my argument does not depend on scripture.
  
  
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  Sam Harris' metaphor for objective morality is the "Moral Landscape" where higher peaks represent better states of well-being and vice-versa.

  He asks us to imagine the deepest possible valley that represents the worst possible state for the maximum number of conscious creatures. Morality is about moving away from that position. There will be numerous places in the landscape of equal height just as there are equally moral positions and states of well-being.

  In this landscape there is no need to know how high the highest possible peak is: no absolute state of moral perfection. Just as we cannot define perfect human health but we can take steps to objectively improve our health relative the the worse possible state - nothing is more unhealthy than a corpse.

  I found it to be useful metaphor. His book is well worth your time. Substituting "god says...." for difficult answers is not satisfying.
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  I have no interest in Catholic dogma and superstition. We have no need of it. Objective secular morality is far superior.
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  It's late but just one simple example - a fertilised egg might split days later and become two or more people. Where and when did the extra souls come from?

  Most zygotes fail before implantation - where did all those souls go and why?

  Sometimes two fertilised eggs will fuse creating a chimera. The person will develop normally. How many souls do they have? etc etc etc.

  Objective facts expose Catholic dogma and ethical values as superstitious bollocks
• 
  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  Catholics hold that life is sacred from conception. How do you disprove that objectively?

  A detailed study of embryology shows conclusively that a new unique person does not exist the moment a sperm penetrates an egg. These objective facts - as opposed to RC dogma - should be part of the data on which we base a decision regarding stem cell research.
  
  
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  Our minds simply have in-built absolute values of morality. - JM

  No they don't. We have evolved a toolkit of moral instincts. There are no absolute moral values. My reasons for saying so are spelled out in the OP which you have so far totally ignored.
  
  
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  Can you give an example of a difficult moral question (as in a question that has significant support on either side) that can be settled objectively without ultimate reference to authority, whether that be God or prevailing public opinion? - SBF

  Depends what you mean by settled.

  The typical religious objections to stem cell research can be answered using objective facts but it will never satisfy a superstitious Catholic.

  
  
  
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  210

  Morality Without Deity

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

  it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

  christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

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  cofty

  John_Mann you constantly obsess with the minutiae of any analogy I use and totally ignore the actual arguments in the OP. Why? I suspect you did nothing but speed-read the OP and then wade in with the usual apologetics about morality.

  There is no such thing as absolute moral standards. However we can discover moral facts to inform our decisions. Morality is how we worry about the way our actions affect the well-being of conscious creatures.