cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  33

  The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

  they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

  then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

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  cofty

  I spoke to Angus afterwards and explained that it is more likely that abuse victims get disfellowshipped because the emotional damage leads them to alcohol, drugs, and sexual behavior.

  Valuable observation.
  
  
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  cofty

  No it's based on empirical data. I wrote the OP and I have read every one of your comments. They are all interesting but none of them address the main point.

  Reality and theology don't fit. In lots of little ways theism doesn't pass the common-sense test.
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  19

  The Evolution of Morality - Jonathan Haidt

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the question of how humans came to have a moral sense is one of the more interesting challenges offered by believers against unguided evolution.

  even informed christians who accept the reality of evolution feel a need to add an additional step where god imbued man with a conscience.. non-supernatural explanations of the origin of morality usually focus on simple examples of reciprocal altruism and the ability to empathise with fellow creatures.

  secular moral systems most often rest on the single foundation of the effects actions have on the well-being of conscious creatures.

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  cofty

  Slightly off-topic but Haidt's research shows that the liberal left are losing ground because they appeal mostly to the first of those moral intuitions, the concern about care/harm.

  The right appeals to all six moral "taste buds", some of which the left don't even view as virtues.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  cofty

  John_Mann you have put a lot of effort into this thread. However you have totally failed to address the OP.

  Your comments have illustrated the point I made about how believers have to add layer upon layer of post hoc excuses and special pleading to justify their beliefs. I thank you for that.
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  19

  The Evolution of Morality - Jonathan Haidt

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the question of how humans came to have a moral sense is one of the more interesting challenges offered by believers against unguided evolution.

  even informed christians who accept the reality of evolution feel a need to add an additional step where god imbued man with a conscience.. non-supernatural explanations of the origin of morality usually focus on simple examples of reciprocal altruism and the ability to empathise with fellow creatures.

  secular moral systems most often rest on the single foundation of the effects actions have on the well-being of conscious creatures.

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  cofty

  The question of how humans came to have a moral sense is one of the more interesting challenges offered by believers against unguided evolution. Even informed christians who accept the reality of evolution feel a need to add an additional step where god imbued man with a conscience.

  Non-supernatural explanations of the origin of morality usually focus on simple examples of reciprocal altruism and the ability to empathise with fellow creatures. Secular moral systems most often rest on the single foundation of the effects actions have on the well-being of conscious creatures. Sam Harris made an excellent case for this position in his book "The Moral Landscape".

  In his book "The Righteous Mind - Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion" Jonathan Haidt objects that Harris is too narrow in treatment of human morality. Haidt lays out six moral intuitions, each of which conferred a significant advantage on our ancestors. These can be illustrated as being like our taste buds. There are a huge range of cuisines around the globe but each of them appeal to the same universal sense of taste. Similarly our various moral codes are built on combinations of the same moral instincts. Further it is Haidt's contention that our culture suffers from a neglect of some of those intuitions.

  In advance I would like to strongly recommend both Harris' and Haidt's books for a very thought provoking treatment of this topic. If you can also find time to add Steven Pinker's recent book "The Blank Slate - The Modern Denial of Human Nature" you not regret the effort.

  I will add more detail later but here is a very brief synopsis of Haidt's six moral intuitions.

  1 - Care/Harm
  Adaptive Challenge - Protect and care for children
  

  2 - Fairness/Cheating
  Adaptive Challenge - How to benefit from two-way relationships
  

  3 - Loyalty/Betrayal
  Adaptive Challenge - How to form cohesive coalitions

  4 - Authority/Subversion
  Adaptive Challenge - Forge beneficial relationships within hierarchies

  5 - Sanctity/Degradation
  Adaptive Challenge - Avoid contaminants

  6 - Liberty/Oppression
  Adaptive Challenge - The need to limit the abuse of power in hierarchical societies.

  I will describe some of these in more detail later. I wonder if we have missed a step. I wonder if anybody is doubting whether caring, kindness, loyalty, guilt, fairness, deference and a desire for cleanness really reside in the brain.

  Perhaps that should be the next topic. The experimental evidence is HUGE!

  
  
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  35

  Stop Jehovah's Witnesses from posting outside of Disneyland

  by Roberto Carlos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please sign petition to have disneyland stop jw's preaching outside gate.

  click here to sign petition (not spam, real link).

  jehovah's witnesses have been involved in vast amount of pedophilia cases.

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  cofty

  Hi Roberto welcome to the forum

  I think there is a good case to be made about the failure of JWs to take appropriate action to protect children in the organisation. That has led to pedophiles being allowed to go door-to-door posing a threat to children in the community. The public should be made aware of that. JWs also do no vetting of those who represent them in public which ought to be the case in an environment like the one you describe.

  I just have a concern that you are overstating your case. Your statement seems to imply that JWs in general pose a threat to children. I'm not sure if that was your intention? Would you consider a more balanced statement that more people might feel comfortable to support?
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  cofty

  Fatima "miracle"...
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  cofty

  John thank you for your contributions to the thread. Having read all your comments I stand by my OP.

  If christian theism was true it just would not be necessary to indulge in the sort of mental gymnastics we have seen above.

  The claims of believers would just make more sense. They would be self- evidently true. The natural world, the history of life, revelation, miracles, prayers, prophecy, ethics, and more would all resonate with the claims of theism.

  Instead the opposite is the case.

  Paul declared that disbelievers are inexcusable. Nothing could be further from the facts.
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  cofty

  I found a YouTube video with good audio here.

  ..
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  80

  ARC Live Streaming site ?

  by Gayle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the exact live streaming site for the arc today in sydney?

  i hope someone or more here will be watching and giving info/quips throughout the case.

  also, will someone here or elsewhere be able to 'save' a video of this (all or part).

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  cofty

  Is there anywhere it can be watched if you can't see it live?