cofty

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Posts by cofty

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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  cofty

  Is this still going on?

  Page 18 and not one single response to any of the nine simple points in the OP
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
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  cofty

  Pages and pages of irrational Roman Catholic dogma.

  Believe the same things as John_Mann or spend eternity in hell. In all those pages not one word of evidence has been offered. Nothing but bald assertions based on the writings of church leaders who lived during the most superstitious period of human history.

  These men were the same ones pulling humans apart on the rack for contradicting them. Thank god all their modern-day followers can do is repeat their ravings ad nauseum on an internet forum.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  I regret that this thread has turned into a platform for the cruelty and inhumanity of Roman Catholic Dogma. Many of the assertions made above are beyond sensible consideration.

  John_Mann it is clear that you have no interest and/or ability to the actual topic.

  My OP consists of nine simple, common-sense observations.

  They concern reasons that make me doubt the existence of the god of Jesus. They assume very little about specific doctrines other than the absolute basics of christian theism - a god of love who made the world and who desires a relationship with his creation.

  Theism and reality cannot easily be reconciled. That is a problem for theism.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  cofty

  I worship the God who cares for physical suffering - John_Mann

  But that flatly contradicts what you have been saying throughout this thread. Your excuse for why god allows millions to suffer and die in natural disasters is that physical suffering is of no consequence and that the only thing that really matters is the eternal soul.

  If your god actually does care about physical suffering why does he cause it?

  The god of Jesus created the world complete with moving and sticking tectonic plates. We know that continents have been on the move for millions of years. The omniscient god of Jesus knew about the growing pressures under the Indian Ocean during the centuries prior to the disaster. On the morning of the event he observed the Indo-Australian break free and begin to rebound. The omnipotent god of Jesus could have effortlessly dampened the rebound - he chose not to. He watched the wave of less than a metre rise to the surface. The god of Jesus who calmed the storm on Galilee could have quelled the wave and nobody would have known anything about it. No free will would have been infringed in any way. He failed to do so.

  The god of Jesus knew that the wave would kill a quarter of a million people and cause suffering and harm millions more. He did nothing.

  The god of Jesus did not permit the suffering of the Asian Tsunami - he caused it. He murdered them wilfully, deliberately and with malice aforethought. He made a world that was perfectly designed to kill its inhabitants and passively observed the consequences.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Why do you worship a god who cares nothing for physical suffering?
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  God has padded us with immortality. Your consciousness, the higher levels of your intellect and will are not destroyed by a tsunami.
  A tsunami can only give you some few minutes of pain and agony but can't damage your immortal soul. But your soul can be subject to an eternal dreadful state. - John_Mann

  Jesus claimed that his god cared passionately about the physical suffering of humans.

  Your defense of god is that he actually doesn't give a fuck about drowning 250,000 men, women and children in an event he could have prevented in a way that would not have impacted on free-will one iota.

  Punkofnice is right. The more theists talk the less theism makes sense. Which was the theme of the OP
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  8

  Forum feature request

  by EdenOne in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  this one for simon.

  others chime in if you agree.. sometimes i find it hard to track the threads where i have posted and where i have posted last on a particular thread.

  it's very time consuming to go and look for it.

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  cofty

  You have three options...

  1 - Started *** Topics
  2 - Posted *** Times
  3 - See topics posted on

  The third of those does what you are looking for.

  
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  Are you saying this physical universe is ruled or guided by direct intelligent design?

  No of course not. I am saying the exact opposite. If the god of christianity existed the world would look very different.

  I think the physical universe is ruled by impersonal natural laws. Only these natural laws were designed metaphysically outside the physical universe.

  According to christians these natural laws were designed by god.

  And these natural laws probably are necessary for the best world to harbor free-willed agents.

  A world where tectonic plates didn't get stuck for hundreds of years and then kill hundreds of thousands as they release would be a better one. Free-will has nothing to do with it. If you affirm that god acts in the world you have no way out of this dilemma. If you don't affirm that god acts in the world then you are not a christian.
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  How do you know that???

  Because I understand what causes a tsunami.

  Designing a world with all the benefits of plate tectonics but without the earthquakes would be child's-play.
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cofty

  But natural evil is a by-product of natural laws. And natural laws probably are a necessity in a world suited to free-willed agents

  No it isn't.

  Any intelligent deity could design a world without tsunamis.

  IMHO natural evil is a necessity in a world of free-willed agents.

  Natural evil and free-will are unconnected. That is why natural evil is an irrefutable objection to christian theism, and the sort of evil that results from the things free-willed agents to others isn't.